The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises

[Gianakin_]

Dick stepped in while he was away. Now he is back and yes Dick will remain as Batman in Gotham while Bruce runs Inc throughout the world. "Batman: The Return" comes out this Wednesday and its about Bruce coming back and setting up Inc (basically a prologue to it), the first issue of which comes out at the same day. Its a good jumping in point for someone who has missed Morrison's run so far.

Nice, I'll give it a try.

 

[Brother Jack]

This is getting a bit off-topic, but I have some issues with the fact that Bruce isn't going to be Batman in the majority of the Batman books running now, not to mention that [BLACKOUT]Bruce announced that Wayne Enterprises is funding Batman[/BLACKOUT].

To me, no matter who replaces Bruce they are only ever just that, a replacement. Bruce is ultimately THE Batman, unless we get into different versions like Azbat or Batman Beyond.

 

[raybia]

But the Batman is not in the details of the portrayal, not even the suit, its in the ideals and i think that's what Inc is about.

Dick might not be batman in Bruce's way, but he is Batman in his own, he serves Gotham wearing the same cape and cowl and he abides by the same code and ideals as Bruce.

I agree and its actually a cool premise. I'm just saying that what Bruce brings to Batman is so unique that it makes him larger than life. He is the manifestation of the human spirit and will and no one can put on the cape and cowl and match it, they can only hope to follow it.

 

[HighFivingMF]

This is getting a bit off-topic, but I have some issues with the fact that Bruce isn't going to be Batman in the majority of the Batman books running now, not to mention that [BLACKOUT]Bruce announced that Wayne Enterprises is funding Batman[/BLACKOUT].

To me, no matter who replaces Bruce they are only ever just that, a replacement. Bruce is ultimately THE Batman, unless we get into different versions like Azbat or Batman Beyond.

Well Dick is still a replacement. Bruce is just taking care of business out of Gotham.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I agree and its actually a cool premise. I'm just saying that what Bruce brings to Batman is so unique that it makes him larger than life. He is the manifestation of the human spirit and will and no one can put on the cape and cowl and match it, they can only hope to follow it.

Well of course nobody will match him because nobody is as obsessed and devoted as he is. Then, he has always been the main guy so they'll never bring someone who betters him.

Hm, i just remembered. The Batman of the 853rd century is just as good if not better than Bruce. The dude is watching over Pluto, which is hollow on the inside and serves as a giant prison for the whole solar system. He and Robin the Toy wonder watch over that alone. Oh and he didnt just watch his parents get murdered. He watched his parents and hundreds of other people get shot down in front of him.

Well Dick is still a replacement. Bruce is just taking care of business out of Gotham.

No he is not. With Bruce back he doesnt need to be Batman anymore and yet Bruce somehow convinces him to stay. They are all Batmen now.

We'll find out more in Wednesday.

 

[Gianakin_]

Dick deserved the cowl for a long time now. I'm glad he finally got it.

 

[returntovoid]

God i hate this "batman is the real person bullcrap".

He not just a symbol, he's the goddamn Batman!

Batsy is insane whether you like it or not.

I'll use Man-Bat's post as counter-debate.

Ol' pointy ears has been borderline nuts from the very beginning years before Frank Miller was even born. Watching his parents murder when he was a child clearly left him with psychological issues.

The Batman persona wasn't just a mere disguise for him -- it was who he considers himself to be. He thought of Bruce Wayne as a disguise.

Batman was sadistic. He clearly enjoyed beating up criminals as he smiled and laughed and wisecracked. He even went around killing -- with a gun no less -- in the original early Golden Age.

From the very beginning Batman certainly had childhood trauma, abandonment issues, neurotic obsessive compulsive disorder and anger management issues. Robin the Boy Wonder is another example -- trying to recruit children to help him in his war.

Taking a child and putting that child in a costume out in danger in the middle of the night. He would be on the rooftops looking for crime until three or four o'cock in the morning all the time. Every night of Dick's childhood was spent on the roof, even when he was too young to legally be out past curfew.

Bruce would go through his files down in a cave and then they'd go to the rooftops and walk around the roofs for hours looking at all the streets. In Batman #2 "The Joker meets the Catwoman" Batman concocted a crazy plan to abduct the Joker from the hospital and take him to a famous brain specialist for a forced brain operation.

In the Bronze Age in Batman #232 "Daughter of the Demon", reprinted in Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams volume 3 and Tales of the Demon, Batman says he has "dedicated my life to a relentless war against crime...A totally devoted, almost fanatical young man...Soon I became feared and hated...exactly as I'd hoped!"

In Detective #457 "There Is No Hope In Crime Alley", reprinted in Batman in the Seventies, Batman severely beats a thief as he flashes back in his mind to his parents murder, he only reluctantly stops because Leslie Thompkins interrupts saying "Stop..Stop! You've hit him enough!" "I lost my head!" is Batman's response.

In Detective #478 "The Coming of Clayface III", reprinted in Strange Apparitions, after Silver St. Cloud dumped him Batman takes his seithing anger out on two shoplifters -- savagely beating them as he flashes back in his mind to Silver, he only reluctantly stops because the police arrive.

Returning home he lashes out at his dead parents -- "This is all your fault! You -- my dear departed parents! If you hadn't died, there never would have been any need for the Batman! I could have lived a normal life like any other man!"

In Detective #479 "If A Man Be Made of Clay", also reprinted in Strange Apparitions, Batman meets a girl whose boyfriend was just killed by the Clayface, the girl hurls herself into Batman's arms. Tenderly Batman cradles her against him. he turns her face to his -- and sees Silver St. Cloud. Batman then talks to himself out loud -- "I've got to gain control of myself! Silver is gone! I've lost her!

And somehow I've got to accept that fact ...before I crack!" Frank Miller didn't really make Batman kookier than he had been before.

What Frank Miller did was bring Batman back to his dark roots further than anyone else had, more in line with the original vision of the character.

Closer to the police-beating, bone-breaking brutal Bill Finger-Bob Kane original. First is the use of the bat emblem on his chest without the yellow moon in Batman The Dark Knight Returns.

In the Golden Age this was the standard. Batman carrying and using guns, which hadn't been seen since 1940. Frank Miller brought back Robin's sling shot which had not been seen since 1940.

The gadgets and bat vehicles which had been toned way down in the '70s. Batman originally was wanted by the police and fought cops. Batman The Dark Knight Returns was a return to that concept.

 

[AllyBabble]

With all due respect, that is a pathetically reductive argument.

it was just a jokey way of quickly illustrating a point, just rushed through there as i didn't think it needed to be illustarted that deeply, but i will attempt a further explanation below.

Of course it is a choice. Are you suggesting that Bruce had no free will? Only after the inhumanity of the League was exposed to him did Bruce choose to become a lone vigilante. Only on his return to Gotham did he deduce that the city needed "a symbol". Only after the discovery of the cave did he settle on the bat-themed identity, having worn a ski mask before. "Why a Bat, sir?" "Because bats scare me".

Obviously the bat theme was heavily drummed into Bruce's backstory by Nolan, in quite a ham-fisted way. Sure, once he had decided to become a symbol, it was the bat which beckoned. But are you really suggesting that it wasn't a decision?

That comes a bit close to wooly hippie mumbo jumbo, to me.

lol, that's ok, but that's how I feel about the process he went through, the ceremony was the first part of his self discovery, when his totem/experience/nature that had been instilled in him (through the cave fall, whoch led to the fear that resulted in his parent's death)was revealed to him, ansd shown to be the thing that would have to be turned inside out somehow and used against evil, instead of it hamstringing himself with personal demons. 'turning fear against the fearful.'
The next step was when he saw the bat in the room when he was drinking his orange juice, and followed it down to the cave and bathed himself in da bats! There he actually had physical contact with his fear, instead of the existential reveal during the ceremony, andit's at that point he fully realized what had been revealed to him during the ceremony and proved to himself that he had conquered these fears and was ready to turn them inside out.

btw, i am not technically a hippy, more of a space cadet, there is a difference, hippies don't get into bar brawls when they are tripping.

[YT]GrIp3k5pJQM[/YT]

 

[regwec]

[BLACKOUT]Bruce announced that Wayne Enterprises is funding Batman[/BLACKOUT].

[blackout]I also thought that was daft. It makes Bruce the only person who other than Jim Gordon who is directly connected to Batman, except that Bruce is a perfect physical match and admits that he has previously had reason to keep the connection secret. He may as well have just taken the mask off in public.[/blackout]

To me, no matter who replaces Bruce they are only ever just that, a replacement. Bruce is ultimately THE Batman, unless we get into different versions like Azbat or Batman Beyond.

Agreed, but remember that there are also a lot of Nightwing fans who want their character back. The Batman Inc thing will inevitably be corrupted at some point and have to be dismantled.

 

[Mr. Earle]

[blackout]I also thought that was daft. It makes Bruce the only person who other than Jim Gordon who is directly connected to Batman, except that Bruce is a perfect physical match and admits that he has previously had reason to keep the connection secret. He may as well have just taken the mask off in public.[/blackout]

Eh, if domino masks and glasses work, this will work too. Its comics!

 

[regwec]

[blackout]Sure, but this means that, in the minds of most criminals, Bruce and Batman will be inseparable. One funds the other. One is dependent on the other. One knows who the other is, presumably. Kill Bruce, kill Batman. It's just the same as if Bruce just told the world that he was Batman.[/blackout]

 

[Caped Crusader]

[blackout]Hello[/blackout]

 

[craigdbfan]

It's really stupid.

Unnecessary I believe its called?

 

[Mr. Earle]

[blackout]Sure, but this means that, in the minds of most criminals, Bruce and Batman will be inseparable. One funds the other. One is dependent on the other. One knows who the other is, presumably. Kill Bruce, kill Batman. It's just the same as if Bruce just told the world that he was Batman.[/blackout]

Yeah, good luck with trying to kill Bruce Wayne. Not even Darkseid could do it.

Besides, with Batman and his baddies on Bruce's side, not many villains will attempt it.

 

[regwec]

What? Of course they will attempt it. They've never stopped trying to kill old pointy-ears, after all. The connection to Bruce just means they can kidnap and torture Alfred or Lucius to get to him. Wasn't preventing that the whole point of having a secret identity?

 

[Caped Crusader]

 

[Mr. Earle]

What? Of course they will attempt it. They've never stopped trying to kill old pointy-ears, after all. The connection to Bruce just means they can kidnap and torture Alfred or Lucius to get to him. Wasn't preventing that the whole point of having a secret identity?

I guess you re right. They could even target whole buildings of Wayne industries and hurt all the people he's working for. I'm guessing that more people will jump on to support Batman, so stopping Wayne wouldnt hurt him so much.

 

[Chiroptera]

win.

 

[Soundwave88]

Not the best title for a Batman movie but I aceept it. I am really happy that Riddler isn't in the movie but who I really want is........ BLACKMASK!! He would be more of threat then Riddler would.

 

[RakuMon]

Over at Entertainment Weekly, Christian Bale was hinting that "The Dark Knight Rises" might not even be the actual title of the flick:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2010/11/23/christian-bale-batman-dark-knight-rises/

He also confirms TDKR (if that is actually the title!) will be his last Batflick.

 

[raybia]

[blackout]Sure, but this means that, in the minds of most criminals, Bruce and Batman will be inseparable. One funds the other. One is dependent on the other. One knows who the other is, presumably. Kill Bruce, kill Batman. It's just the same as if Bruce just told the world that he was Batman.[/blackout]

Very true in the real world, but in the DC Universe, humans are very naive and stupid.

 

[raybia]

Over at Entertainment Weekly, Christian Bale was hinting that "The Dark Knight Rises" might not even be the actual title of the flick:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2010/11/23/christian-bale-batman-dark-knight-rises/

He also confirms TDKR (if that is actually the title!) will be his last Batflick.

Him not coming back has to be the world's worst kept secret. I cannot help but to think that there may be more than meets the eye regarding the title.

 

[RustyCage]

Over at Entertainment Weekly, Christian Bale was hinting that "The Dark Knight Rises" might not even be the actual title of the flick:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2010/11/23/christian-bale-batman-dark-knight-rises/

He also confirms TDKR (if that is actually the title!) will be his last Batflick.

Hinting? "Hinting?" It's people like you that cause news to spin out of control and give the fanbase and general public the wrong idea.

He wasn't 'hinting' any such thing. He simply says that he hasn't heard it directly from Nolan, so he doesn't know if it's true or not. The fact that he clearly says over and over again that he knows next to nothing about the film should be confirmation enough that he isn't even in a POSITION to 'hint' at anything.

Seriously. I can't believe how grossly spun-upon these latest Bale quotes have been.

Oh, one more thing: He outright says that Chris Nolan could still tell him it's not his last Batflick, so basically it's still up in the air. He hasn't confirmed jack. Quit making things up.

 

[raybia]

Hinting? "Hinting?" It's people like you that cause news to spin out of control and give the fanbase and general public the wrong idea.

He wasn't 'hinting' any such thing. He simply says that he hasn't heard it directly from Nolan, so he doesn't know if it's true or not. The fact that he clearly says over and over again that he knows next to nothing about the film should be confirmation enough that he isn't even in a POSITION to 'hint' at anything.

Seriously. I can't believe how grossly spun-upon these latest Bale quotes have been.

Oh, one more thing: He outright says that Chris Nolan could still tell him it's not his last Batflick, so basically it's still up in the air. He hasn't confirmed jack. Quit making things up.

Yeah, its not a secret that Bale makes Batman movies for Nolan and no one else. If Nolan made 3 more I would assume so would Bale.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah, its not a secret that Bale makes Batman movies for Nolan and no one else. If Nolan made 3 more I would assume so would Bale.

Actually, Bale joked awhile back about how Nolan only has a contract to do one film at a time whereas Bale was locked in to do 3 Batman movies no matter what. So even if Nolan left after Begins, Bale would have been involved in the obvious sequel without Nolan. If I remember right, Oldman said he was locked into 3 movies as well.