College Professor Fired for not respecting bible

This kind of thing makes me wonder: for those who demand logic, try this...

Let's say, for the sake of this scenario, that God does exist, and that He created the universe. Imagine the kind of raw power and energy that would take, to not only create all of existence, but maintain conscious control over it, for eternity...

Now, with that in mind, are you honestly saying that such a divine Being, responsible for all the complexities and attributes of the universe (planets, moons, nebulas, not to mention all the tiny details of Earth's biological environment), could have enough power to control the cosmos...and yet not be able to make sure His actions and commands are documented clearly and accurately?!


So, taking your scenario as true: If it is true, why doesn't the documentation of his actions and commands accurately reflect the physical evidence of his actions and commands?

Looking at the quandry logically, you would be forced to assume, given your set of circumstances and the evidence, that God is a construct of fallible man. Fallible man, who knew very little of science, wrote the documents and manuscripts that would eventually be gathered together as the Bible.

You see, at some point you have to reconcile the two. You can, as some do, ignore the physical evidence as being planted by Satan. You may, as some do, "interpret" it to conform to scripture, or you may, as others do, recognize the Bible for what it is, a history mixed with myths and parables.

You can choose how you make the problem of what it says and what we see go away. But, at the end of the day, what it says and what we see still disagrees.
 
This kind of thing makes me wonder: for those who demand logic, try this...

Let's say, for the sake of this scenario, that God does exist, and that He created the universe. Imagine the kind of raw power and energy that would take, to not only create all of existence, but maintain conscious control over it, for eternity...

Now, with that in mind, are you honestly saying that such a divine Being, responsible for all the complexities and attributes of the universe (planets, moons, nebulas, not to mention all the tiny details of Earth's biological environment), could have enough power to control the cosmos...and yet not be able to make sure His actions and commands are documented clearly and accurately?!

Well, since theologians in christianity, and theologians in other religions have for centuries debated over the writings in a book their religion considers to be "the word of god", I think that shows that deities lack that ability to make sure they're documented clearly and accurately
 
No need for name calling. Its about the best evidence you could find on Earth.

---Morzan


Sure, like "Clash of the Titans" is the best evidence for flying horses and sea monsters you could find on Earth.
 
Bill said:
So, taking your scenario as true: If it is true, why doesn't the documentation of his actions and commands accurately reflect the physical evidence of his actions and commands?
For example?...
 
Now, with that in mind, are you honestly saying that such a divine Being, responsible for all the complexities and attributes of the universe (planets, moons, nebulas, not to mention all the tiny details of Earth's biological environment), could have enough power to control the cosmos...and yet not be able to make sure His actions and commands are documented clearly and accurately?!

If anyone had that kind of raw power, what would he/she care if his/her actions were documented clearly and accurately?

Whether or not people followed his/her rules would be irrelevant because he/she could simply create others to follow said rules.

And if he/she had such raw power and wanted to be adorned and worshiped and loved by it's creations, why not simply make his/her creations "love" him/her?

Look, if it works for you, and following the christian rules of life make you a better person for it, then I'm in COMPETE favour of you following your dogma. If more people followed their creeds, we might actually have a decent world to live in, whether or not it whatever belief system one had was even true.

But the bottom line is that too many of us want to have this "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude towards their beliefs, and then belittle the ones that believe in a differrent power (or diety or whatever you'd like to call it) because they're scared of anything that might be different. Because the bottom line is that NONE of us knows what lies after death, regardless of whatever books and/or scriptures you happen to think is the correct one to live by, and that fear of being wrong pushes us to make sure we're right, and by telling others that we're right, and insisting that others are wrong.

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Well, it made sense to me as I typed it...

:csad:
 
i really think everyone here is missing the point.

First off, there are a lot of things to consider when recounting what this professor said and his eventual dismissal.

First off, how do we know that this professor doesn’t have a history of biblical "slander"? I highly doubt he was fired for uttering ONE sentence - if he was, then he really needs to sue the school. The point is, we can't read a single paragraph of a news article (and we ALL know how media can twist/exclude important information) and think we know ALL of what happened and why.

Secondly, if he is a western civ teacher, and he wants to discuss the bible in class, he should teach world religions. Of course, much of western history consists of events brought on by religion (NOT JUST CHRISTIANITY!), so one cant really get away from the topic in such a class. However, the right course of action would be to discuss HOW the religions affected history, NOT the personal ideas the professor has on the religions themselves. And it wasn’t just that he was saying “this is what I believe”, he was TELLING the students what to believe themselves. The students are paying to learn about history, not that they should follow the professors beliefs - or lack thereof.

Third, lets switch the roles here. Lets say that a CHRISTIAN teacher was fired for insisting his beliefs during scheduled class time, while teaching a course that does not condone promoting his religion (which has happened). I think its safe to assume most posters here wouldn’t have anything to say, much less a "serves him/her right" - and yes, to cover your butts, I'm sure most of you will say "that’s not true/don’t assume" - but lets face it: we ALL read your thoughts on Christians. But i digress...The hypocrisy is staggering. Many schools and towns are now being forced to exclude any Christian mention or theme from both public and even private settings, and yet people come in with guns blazing because someone who was on "your side" got in trouble. Threes so much talk about freedom here, but I don’t see any. On EITHER SIDE.

Seperation of church and state. Look it up sometime.

In closing, do I think the guy was wrong? Yes and no. He was wrong for telling his students to adhere to his own beliefs, during a western civilization class. No, because he has a right to free speech. However, if Christians cannot discuss/”impose” their beliefs, then no one should. NO double standards! I do not, however, agree that he should have been fired (unless of course this is a reoccurring problem of his). If this was a one-time deal, he should have simply been told “if you gotta do that, do it on your time, not in class”.

I’m done.

He was telling students to adhere to reality. Nothing wrong with that.
 
The Bible is accurate and reliable. Sure, pull flying scorpions and FOCUS on that when that's not even supposed to be taken literally.

This disgusts me...this obvious support of anything contrary to the Bible. It's like we've forgotten all about the most publicized, reliable book ever and the book a lot of people have sacrificed their own lives for JUST BECAUSE we don't like the people who follow it or we don't believe in the supernatural.

This is bull****

Everyone who is attempting to deride a person's faith or show HATE of another person's religion, regardless of whether they believe it or not, should not be viewed as a voice of reason in conversation and that includes Wilhelm most definitely.
 
Even though the census mentioned in the gospel of Luke took place in 6 CE, and didn't require the people to go back to a town that a particular ancestor lived in generations earlier, even though there is no record of the Hebrews being used as slaves in any of the records discovered in the ruins in Egypt, even though there is no record of the dead rising from their graves, an earthquake in Jerusalem, an eclipse, or the veil being torn in two during a particular passover week in the first century, even though there is no conclusive evidence of an "ark" or any other wooden boat on Mount Ararat, especially since that mountain in Turkey has a glacier, which does the surprising thing of moving downhill which would cause anything on the mountain to be pushed off of it...

yeah, the bible is accurate :dry:
 
No, I'm not; I just happen to believe that in a world where Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists are protected by groups like the ACLU, then Christians should recieve the same amount of defense, and with the same eagerness. I believe it to be highly despicable when liberals accept and embrace public displays of symbols for other religions, but instantly take offense at the display of a Christian cross or the Ten Commandments. I think it's wrong for people to get punished for teaching about Creation, and no one blinks at students being taught an evolutionary theory as if it were fact. It's dishonorable, in my opinion, for people to demand that "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, or for "in God we trust" to be censored from American currency. The United States of America was founded on the principles of Christianity (for more info, try this link), and every time I see something being done to reverse or renounce that...it really hits me right in the heart. These are the kinds of things helping to poison this country, and what I find most disheartening is that many citizens don't even give it a second thought.

hey i agree, check this one out.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html





oh wait, i totally disagree with everything you have said.
 
The Bible is accurate and reliable. Sure, pull flying scorpions and FOCUS on that when that's not even supposed to be taken literally.

This disgusts me...this obvious support of anything contrary to the Bible. It's like we've forgotten all about the most publicized, reliable book ever and the book a lot of people have sacrificed their own lives for JUST BECAUSE we don't like the people who follow it or we don't believe in the supernatural.

This is bull****

Everyone who is attempting to deride a person's faith or show HATE of another person's religion, regardless of whether they believe it or not, should not be viewed as a voice of reason in conversation and that includes Wilhelm most definitely.

The Bible is one of the most unreliable books in the world. The books of Genesis and Exodus are enough proof of that fact to blown it out of the water. A couple million species aren't going to be able to fit onto a boat the size of a football field and there's no evidence that any large population of Jews lived in ancient Egypt might as less used as slaves.

There's a big difference between respecting someones right to believe and respect what someone believes. As an American I respect everyone's right to follow a religion, but as an atheist I have no respect for their choice of religion.

Even though the census mentioned in the gospel of Luke took place in 6 CE, and didn't require the people to go back to a town that a particular ancestor lived in generations earlier, even though there is no record of the Hebrews being used as slaves in any of the records discovered in the ruins in Egypt, even though there is no record of the dead rising from their graves, an earthquake in Jerusalem, an eclipse, or the veil being torn in two during a particular passover week in the first century, even though there is no conclusive evidence of an "ark" or any other wooden boat on Mount Ararat, especially since that mountain in Turkey has a glacier, which does the surprising thing of moving downhill which would cause anything on the mountain to be pushed off of it...

yeah, the bible is accurate :dry:

QTF. :up:
 
This kind of thing makes me wonder: for those who demand logic, try this...

Let's say, for the sake of this scenario, that God does exist, and that He created the universe. Imagine the kind of raw power and energy that would take, to not only create all of existence, but maintain conscious control over it, for eternity...

Now, with that in mind, are you honestly saying that such a divine Being, responsible for all the complexities and attributes of the universe (planets, moons, nebulas, not to mention all the tiny details of Earth's biological environment), could have enough power to control the cosmos...and yet not be able to make sure His actions and commands are documented clearly and accurately?!

Well ,..you accurately deciphered the shadows on the wall,..but when are you going to renter the cave to free me from my chains?:whatever:
 
The United States of America was founded on the principles of Christianity (for more info, try this link), and every time I see something being done to reverse or renounce that...it really hits me right in the heart.

This is what happens when you home-school your children. Get your facts straight, the founding fathers were some of the most secular and free-thinking people of their time...

Quotes from James Madison, fourth president of the United States:

"It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others." - James Madison, "James Madison on Religious Liberty", edited by Robert S. Alley, ISBN 0-8975-298-X. pp. 237-238.

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." - 1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches


Quotes from John Adams, second president of the United States:

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - letter to Thomas Jefferson

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - letter to John Taylor

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"

"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?" - letter to Thomas Jefferson

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?"

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."


Quotes from Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States:

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. - letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." - to John Adams, 1803

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." - to Carey, 1816

"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself." - in his private journal, Feb. 1800

"It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it." - to Carey, 1816

"The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore." - to Story, Aug. 4, 1820

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save." - to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

"Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a slaughter-house." - to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

"Let us, then, fellow citizens, unite with one heart and one mind. Let us restore to social intercourse that harmony and affection without which liberty and even life itself are but dreary things. And let us reflect that having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of a bitter and bloody persecutions."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"It has been fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and then I considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."

"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation [birth] of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation [birth] of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823

"They [preachers] dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live."

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever." - Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself." - letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law." - letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." - letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT "The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519


Quote from George Washington, first president of the United States under the Constitution:

"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society." - letter to Edward Newenham, 1792


Quotes from Benjamin Franklin, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States:

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - letter to his father, 1738

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", 1728

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - in Poor Richard's Almanac

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."

"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."


Quote from Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth president of the United States:

"The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession."
 
This is what happens when you home-school your children. Get your facts straight, the founding fathers were some of the most secular and free-thinking people of their time...

Hey, some of those look familiar. Wait, I posted that about a week ago! :woot:
 
Thomas Paine's letter to Andrew Dean, from New York, August 15, 1806.

by Thomas Paine



espected Friend: — I received your friendly letter, for which I am obliged to you. It is three weeks ago to-day (Sunday, August fifteenth), that I was struck with a fit of an apoplexy that deprived me of all sense and motion. I had neither pulse nor breathing, and the people about me supposed me dead. I had felt exceedingly well that day, and had just taken a slice of bread and butter for supper, and was going to bed. The fit took me on the stairs, as suddenly as if I had been shot through the head; and I got so very much hurt by the fall, that I have not been able to get in and out of bed since that day, otherwise than being lifted out in a blanket, by two persons; yet all this while my mental faculties have remained as perfect as I ever enjoyed them. I consider the scene I have passed through as an experiment on dying, and I find that death has no terrors for me. As to the people called Christians, they have no evidence that their religion is true. There is no more proof that the Bible is the Word of God, than that the Koran of Mahomet is the Word of God. It is education makes all the difference. Man, before he begins to think for himself, is as much the child of habit in Creeds as he is in ploughing and sowing. Yet creeds, like opinions, prove nothing.

Where is the evidence that the person called Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God? The case admits not of evidence either to our senses or our mental faculties: neither has God given to man any talent by which such a thing is comprehensible.

It cannot therefore be an object for faith to act upon, for faith is nothing more than an assent the mind gives to something it sees cause to believe is fact. But priests, preachers, and fanatics, put imagination in the place of faith, and it is the nature of the imagination to believe without evidence.

If Joseph the carpenter dreamed, (as the book of Matthew chap. 1st says he did), that his betrothed wife, Mary, was with child by the Holy Ghost, and that an angel told him so, I am not obliged to put faith in his dreams; nor do I put any, for I put no faith in my own dreams, and I should be weak and foolish indeed to put faith in the dreams of others.

The Christian religion is derogatory to the Creator in all its articles. It puts the Creator in an inferior point of view, and places the Christian Devil above him. It is he, according to the absurd story in Genesis, that outwits the Creator in the garden of Eden, and steals from Him His favorite creature, man, and at last obliges Him to beget a son, and put that son to death, to get man back again; and this the priests of the Christian religion call redemption.

Christian authors exclaim against the practice of offering up human sacrifices, which, they say, is done in some countries; and those authors make those exclamations without ever reflecting that their own doctrine of salvation is founded on a human sacrifice. They are saved, they say, by the blood of Christ. The Christian religion begins with a dream and ends with a murder.

As I am now well enough to sit up some hours in the day, though not well enough to get up without help, I employ myself as I have always done, in endeavoring to bring man to the right use of the reason that God has given him, and to direct his mind immediately to his Creator, and not to fanciful secondary beings called mediators, as if God was superannuated or ferocious.

As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book. The fable of Christ and his twelve apostles, which is a parody on the sun and the twelve signs of the zodiac, copied from the ancient religions of the eastern world, is the least hurtful part. Everything told of Christ has reference to the sun. His reported resurrection is at sunrise, and that on the first day of the week; that is, on the day anciently dedicated to the sun, and from thence called Sunday — in Latin Dies Solis, the day of the sun; as the next day, Monday, is Moon-day. But there is no room in a letter to explain these things.

While man keeps to the belief of one God, his reason unites with his creed. He is not shocked with contradictions and horrid stories. His Bible is the heavens and the earth. He beholds his Creator in all His works, and everything he beholds inspires him with reverence and gratitude. From the goodness of God to all, he learns his duty to his fellowman, and stands self-reproved when he transgresses it. Such a man is no persecutor.

But when he multiplies his creed with imaginary things, of which he can have neither evidence nor conception, such as the tale of the garden of Eden, the Talking Serpent, the Fall of Man, the Dreams of Joseph the Carpenter, the pretended Resurrection and Ascension, of which there is even no historical relation — for no historian of those times mentions such a thing — he gets into the pathless region of confusion, and turns either fanatic or hypocrite. He forces his mind, and pretends to believe what he does not believe. This is in general the case with the Methodists. Their religion is all creed and no morals.

I have now, my friend, given you a facsimile of my mind on the subject of religions and creeds, and my wish is that you make this letter as publicly known as you find opportunities of doing.

I am glad to hear that Thomas is a good boy. It will always give me pleasure to know that he goes on well. You say that he begins to want a pair of trousers, shirt and a hat. You can take the horse and chair and take Thomas with you and go to the store and get him some strong stuff for a pair of trousers, hempen linnen for two shirts, and a hat. He shall not want for anything if he be a good boy and learn no bad words.

I have taken lodgings at Corlears Hook but I am not well enough to be removed, yet I continue tolerably well in health. What I suffer is pain and want of strength occasioned by the fall I got by the fit and fall, for I find I went headlong over the bannisters as suddenly as I had been shot through the head.

You speak of coming to N[ew] York. When you come take Thomas with you. You can come with the horse and chair. If I am not at Carver's he will tell you where I am. When you go to the store, go on to the landing and read this letter to Mr. Deltor. When you see Mr. Somerville present my respects. You and Thomas might take a walk there some Saturday afternoon, and call at Mr. Jonathan Wards. Take the letter with you.

Yours in friendship,
Thomas Paine.
 
After I finish The Plot Against America by Philip Roth, I'm going to read The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine.
 
And it was a ***** to copy and paste, and make it somewhat readable. Especially since it would constantly give "-bullet" before each sentence
 

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