Compare "Ultimate Universe" to "Marvel 616"

[Docker2.0]

What I don't understand is how people complain about Marvel not aging its characters. Peter Parker was made to be forever young, its his tailer made character. Iron man will always be Tony Stark just like Steve Rogers will be Cap and Bruce is the Hulk. DC ages some of its characters but it doesn't make sense to see Nightwing with a then 30 year old Bruce Wayne when he's 15 years old. Almost 20 years later Nightwing looks almost the exact same age as Bruce, who hasn't aged a day nor has Clark Kent or Lois Lane. Some characters shouldn't age becuase they'd lose their audience. That argument is so old!

 

[Son_of_W]

Eros said:
Ultimate Fury was to busy envading countries to worry about Namor.

Lol, too true, too true.

UMU is indeed darker, bloodier, and more realistic then almost anything else Marvel has ever written. But unfortunately, it's getting a little boring all around. The U X-Men are boring now, taking a very long time for character or story development or with a ******ed amount of repetativeness (the iceman, rogue, kitty pryde love triangle?). Spiderman's enemy's are ALL biogenetically engineered freaks, alot of whom are impressive to begin with and end pathetically. You're all well aware of my opinion of UFF. Ultimates is one of the few things i don't take critical distate too, and I'm pretty sure if it was an ongoing series I would. i didn't even like ultimate iron man series (the blue skin thing was weird and where are people getting the kind of technology they get in this series?).

Then again, 616 as far as repetativness goes, just how many times have Jean Grey and wolverine died apeice?

 

[Son_of_W]

What I don't understand is how people complain about Marvel not aging its characters. Peter Parker was made to be forever young, its his tailer made character. Iron man will always be Tony Stark just like Steve Rogers will be Cap and Bruce is the Hulk. DC ages some of its characters but it doesn't make sense to see Nightwing with a then 30 year old Bruce Wayne when he's 15 years old. Almost 20 years later Nightwing looks almost the exact same age as Bruce, who hasn't aged a day nor has Clark Kent or Lois Lane. Some characters shouldn't age becuase they'd lose their audience. That argument is so old!

Alright, so explain to me how the holocaust survivor magneto is less then 59 years old (he was eight when he was in poland i think)? How he looks less then 45 years old? Why do cyclops, kitty pride, and people like students at the institute age on a regular basis, but Iceman could still be ID'd if he tried to buy a pack of smokes? That arguement is old because it stands

 

[Savage]

To me they're as seperate as Marvel and DC. I don't even compare them really. As far as I'm concerned, 616 Spider-man is not Ultimate Spider-man...It's not that hard.

That said, I prefer the Ultimate Universe. It's ironic that the universe was created partially to erase all the dependance on continuity but that is exactly why I like it and collect every single book with Ultimate on it. It's a contained universe that I can get a hold of every corner of fairly easily. The characters are very intertwined and connected and I like that. I like that Ultimate Captain America was pretty much the reason for it's existance. I like that the Ultimates are the dark sides of being a hero to Spider-man's lighter material and the X-men's middleground.

The thing about the Ultimate universe is that everybody feels like they're on their own level and in their own place. 616 can at times feel like everyone is A list. With Ultimate it's "Okay, the Ultimates are the big boys. Fantastic Four is the back-up. The X-men really shouldn't even be here and if we see Spider-man one more time, he's arrested.". It doesn't feel like "Hi! You're a super hero?! I'm a super hero! Let's be friends!". I love the 616 universe but I liked that I was actually there from the start for the Ultimate universe. Feels a little more...personal...And the fact that I'm in the same age group as most of the characters and can identify with them more than I do their 616 counterparts helps too. I mean there are times when I'd read conversations between Sue and Reed and I'd just think "Been there".

 

[Eros]

Alright, so explain to me how the holocaust survivor magneto is less then 59 years old (he was eight when he was in poland i think)? How he looks less then 45 years old? Why do cyclops, kitty pride, and people like students at the institute age on a regular basis, but Iceman could still be ID'd if he tried to buy a pack of smokes? That arguement is old because it stands

Magneto has been literally rejuvenated by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, so that despite his much greater chronological age, he appears still to be a relatively young man. secondly if Cyclops[or anyone else you named] ages "Normally" why is he not an old man now, since he debuted in the 1960s.

 

[Son_of_W]

To me they're as seperate as Marvel and DC. I don't even compare them really. As far as I'm concerned, 616 Spider-man is not Ultimate Spider-man...It's not that hard.

That said, I prefer the Ultimate Universe. It's ironic that the universe was created partially to erase all the dependance on continuity but that is exactly why I like it and collect every single book with Ultimate on it. It's a contained universe that I can get a hold of every corner of fairly easily. The characters are very intertwined and connected and I like that. I like that Ultimate Captain America was pretty much the reason for it's existance. I like that the Ultimates are the dark sides of being a hero to Spider-man's lighter material and the X-men's middleground.

The thing about the Ultimate universe is that everybody feels like they're on their own level and in their own place. 616 can at times feel like everyone is A list. With Ultimate it's "Okay, the Ultimates are the big boys. Fantastic Four is the back-up. The X-men really shouldn't even be here and if we see Spider-man one more time, he's arrested.". It doesn't feel like "Hi! You're a super hero?! I'm a super hero! Let's be friends!". I love the 616 universe but I liked that I was actually there from the start for the Ultimate universe. Feels a little more...personal...And the fact that I'm in the same age group as most of the characters and can identify with them more than I do their 616 counterparts helps too. I mean there are times when I'd read conversations between Sue and Reed and I'd just think "Been there".

I'm with you on that. Being there from the beginning definetly brings about a sense of knowledge and knowing. And it's true that you can find out who's back end of the heroes and who the ones in charge are. The interconnectivity is also great, although, character portrayal seems to change from series to series with little material actually relating back to the original character (I just can't see Thor attending Jonhnny storm's birthday party, no matter who Thor likes to enlist in his new generation of hippies).

But as different as the characters need to be from the originals, does anybody else feel a little betrayed sometimes, even though some stuff is so much better? Like Wolverine is just a little too easy to take out for someone who was called "the mot dangerous mutant alive" by prof x in the UFU. Wolverine was cool in 616, because he could take a beating and dish it back, and other then a metal skeleton and claws, he was just a very hairy little man with insane fighting skills and an amazing tactical mind. You used to set him on fire (Civil war blew all his flesh off) and he'd just get up from that and keep going. Now, Captain America, trigger happy that he is now , shoots him with a sub machine gun and wolverine is down for the night. Just peachy.

Then again, i love U. quicksilver, now no longer the arrogant prick he was in 616. Actually, he was better before that whole incestuous thing came along with him and wanda, that kinda scared me.

 

[Son_of_W]

Magneto has been literally rejuvenated by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, so that despite his much greater chronological age, he appears still to be a relatively young man. secondly if Cyclops[or anyone else you named] ages "Normally" why is he not an old man now, since he debuted in the 1960s.

I never said normally, i said on a regular basis. The original 5 X-men were all teenagers when they joined, and by Y2K, I would say cyclops was over 30, in comparison to iceman, who, again, looks like he's less then twenty five on a bad day. And if you can explain magneto, explain prof x. another character around for hitler's fall.

 

[Snikt 6]

I never said normally, i said on a regular basis. The original 5 X-men were all teenagers when they joined, and by Y2K, I would say cyclops was over 30, in comparison to iceman, who, again, looks like he's less then twenty five on a bad day. And if you can explain magneto, explain prof x. another character around for hitler's fall.

Ha...good stuff. How old do you think Mystique is?????

 

[Themanofbat]

The Ultimate Universe is pure s***t and nothing more than spoon-fed pablum to the fanboys as well as an opportunity to prove that people will buy crap.

The Regular Universe, while it does have it's problems, is THE classic Universe and there is NO need for a copycat version of it.

'Nuff said.

 

[Son_of_W]

Ha...good stuff. How old do you think Mystique is?????

Something over a hundred...thing is, it's hard to decide how old she should look, her power is to change her appearance. For all we know, her actually form could be like, more obese then Blob was, and have like pink polka dot skin in the shape of smiley faces. But I think they did a series showing her over one hundred, which is why Destiny, her supposed lover, was so old before she kicked the can. ugh...the worst picture just entered my head, how nightcrawler was supposed to be born....ugh

 

[Snikt 6]

Something over a hundred...thing is, it's hard to decide how old she should look, her power is to change her appearance. For all we know, her actually form could be like, more obese then Blob was, and have like pink polka dot skin in the shape of smiley faces. But I think they did a series showing her over one hundred, which is why Destiny, her supposed lover, was so old before she kicked the can. ugh...the worst picture just entered my head, how nightcrawler was supposed to be born....ugh

Yeah....let's not go there! Ugh.

616 is THE universe. Why in the world would we even need another?

 

[Son_of_W]

The Ultimate Universe is pure s***t and nothing more than spoon-fed pablum to the fanboys as well as an opportunity to prove that people will buy crap.

The Regular Universe, while it does have it's problems, is THE classic Universe and there is NO need for a copycat version of it.

'Nuff said.

If that's all you had to say, why'd you even say it? Lot's of things that were classic sucked, like star trek, and do you realize how many of you're supposed 'classic' characters like Goliath and hercules are being used in civil war as canon fodder? At least the ultimate marvel universe hasn't revived anyone yet, despite some pretty disatisfying deaths (Beast and Doom namely).

 

[The Question]

Alright, so explain to me how the holocaust survivor magneto is less then 59 years old (he was eight when he was in poland i think)? How he looks less then 45 years old? Why do cyclops, kitty pride, and people like students at the institute age on a regular basis, but Iceman could still be ID'd if he tried to buy a pack of smokes? That arguement is old because it stands

Magneto looks like he's in his fifties because he excersizes like a madman, and it has been implied that he's addicted to preformance enhancing drugs.

Ha...good stuff. How old do you think Mystique is?????

She's been said to be anywhere from 60 to 80 years old. One story even had her in a setting and mode of dress usually associtaed with the very early 1900s.

 

[Son_of_W]

Yeah....let's not go there! Ugh.

616 is THE universe. Why in the world would we even need another?

No one needed a new universe, but who evr said it at the beginning in counter of what i said (shadowboxing i think) was correct. It was a marketing technique to appeal to people who didn't want to trace through 40 years of 616 history of a character, or didn't want to start reading at issue #500 and be missing details. UFU had a lot of potential and got either repetative (U. Spiderman, as previously stated, alot of villains came about the same way), took too long to get stories going (U. x-men), had writing and art that was an aquired taste for the reader (UFF) and/or took WAY too long just to get issues published (Ultimates and ultimates 2).

But people were asking the same question in the 60's weren't they? "Why make marvel? We've got perfectly good superheroes at DC." Why because we, the reader need something new, which is why stuff like Planetary, Spawn (when it first came out), and Y the Last Man? are such hot sellers. They are new with new ideas and new characters, and new art and the people behind it have nothing to lose so they will put everything into the pot. Marvel and DC have a hard time keeping up with 'new' it seems, and so constantly create and destroy universes in the hopes of catching the one that sticks. UFU was the one that stuck, along with 1602 and 616.

Out of curiousity, why is regular marvel 616?

 

[Muze]

For those of you like me, caught between the Ultimate Universe and it's modern potential (although that's sometimes squandered) and Earth 616 classic outlook (which is getting ridiculous since characters never age, and EVERYONE is overpowered), I'd like to Introduce this comparison thread. What's wrong with ultimate and what's wrong with 616? what's good about both. Let's hear everybody pour there hearts out about what they hate and love about it all.

i only like the Ultimates and the new Squadron Supreme. the others aren't improvements, imo.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

If that's all you had to say, why'd you even say it? Lot's of things that were classic sucked, like star trek, and do you realize how many of you're supposed 'classic' characters like Goliath and hercules are being used in civil war as canon fodder? At least the ultimate marvel universe hasn't revived anyone yet, despite some pretty disatisfying deaths (Beast and Doom namely).

Doom isn't dead...in fact we aren't sure what happened to him at all.

 

[Son_of_W]

Doom isn't dead...in fact we aren't sure what happened to him at all.

They let him go into the zombie dimension. I mean, considering what he did to zombie FF, I can see him pulling some crazy stuff on the 5 left over zombies and winning, buthow do they bring him back. The reason they were sending the zombies back to their home dimension in such a manner was because even if they figured out the technology, the dimensions wouldn't cross again for another something billion years. As mad as I am that they more or less incapacitated the character (fine, not kill) as far as the comics are concerned, I'd be even madder if they retconned it, you just don't come back from stuff like that.

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

To me they're as seperate as Marvel and DC. I don't even compare them really. As far as I'm concerned, 616 Spider-man is not Ultimate Spider-man...It's not that hard.

That said, I prefer the Ultimate Universe. It's ironic that the universe was created partially to erase all the dependance on continuity but that is exactly why I like it and collect every single book with Ultimate on it. It's a contained universe that I can get a hold of every corner of fairly easily. The characters are very intertwined and connected and I like that. I like that Ultimate Captain America was pretty much the reason for it's existance. I like that the Ultimates are the dark sides of being a hero to Spider-man's lighter material and the X-men's middleground.

The thing about the Ultimate universe is that everybody feels like they're on their own level and in their own place. 616 can at times feel like everyone is A list. With Ultimate it's "Okay, the Ultimates are the big boys. Fantastic Four is the back-up. The X-men really shouldn't even be here and if we see Spider-man one more time, he's arrested.". It doesn't feel like "Hi! You're a super hero?! I'm a super hero! Let's be friends!". I love the 616 universe but I liked that I was actually there from the start for the Ultimate universe. Feels a little more...personal...And the fact that I'm in the same age group as most of the characters and can identify with them more than I do their 616 counterparts helps too. I mean there are times when I'd read conversations between Sue and Reed and I'd just think "Been there".

I agree, they are two entirely separate 'franchises' and should always be kept as such.

I also think that the team to team early 616 relationships should be accentuated to the nth degree in Ultimate, with the Xmen being powerful outlaws who occassionally rescue the Ultimates.

 

[Kevin]

I think any "fan to be" who doesn't want to do the "40 years of reseach" is stupid and lazy. Sorry if that applies to anyone.

 

[Kitsune]

This thread will not end well.

Sorta like the Hulk can beat everyone in the Marvel universe thread?

 

[Horhey]

The UMU has alot of potential, but bad writing, character development, and plotting could easily cause irepairable damage, as we are now seeing in Ultimate X-Men and UFF.

The Ultimates is a great book and so was Ultimate X-Men before Robert Kirkman. I also like Ultimate Spider Man more than the original. However, alot of the crossover events in UMU have been disapointing at best. Ultimate Extinction was horrible.

 

[Kevin]

Yeah... "The Ultimates" seriously bored the hell out of me.

 

[Galact-Gal]

I never said normally, i said on a regular basis. The original 5 X-men were all teenagers when they joined, and by Y2K, I would say cyclops was over 30, in comparison to iceman, who, again, looks like he's less then twenty five on a bad day. And if you can explain magneto, explain prof x. another character around for hitler's fall.

Magneto was reduced to infancy by Mutant Alpha. He was restored to adulthood by an agent of the Crazy Shi'ar Emperor. In Uncanny 200 it was stated that Magneto was biologically in his early 30's. If you could get somebody at Marvel to tell you how long ago that was in Marvel time, you could figure out what his physical age is supposed to be (I'm guessing about 40).

Professor X got a brand new body! In the storyline that introduced the Brood, Charlie was infected by a Brood queen. By the time the kidnapped X-Men returned to Earth, his body was almost entirely taken over. Luckily, the Starjammer's doctor was able to clone a new body for Xavier. And I suspect it's growth was stopped before it matched his chronological age. Now that isn't stated anywhere in the comic, but if you could give your friend/mentor/lover a new body wouldn't you be tempted to make it a younger body?

 

[unstoppable]

What's wrong with The Ultimate Universe? Ultimate Fantastic Four. I kid you not, I hate this series with a passion. The original purpose of U. Marvel was to get away from ridiculous storylines and modernize the stories, and they blow it. UFF blew it like a nuclear bomb. From taking death rays for manufacturing from an alternate universe, to marvel zombies saying that U. Thing is stronger then 616 Hulk (impossible considering the fact that regular Hulk lifts well over a 100 tons, and U. Thing can only left up to about 20 tons or something). Let's not forget the constant cameos of the Ultimates that completely interfere with the storylines of the ultimate universe? Like if Nick fury can manufacture death rays, why is the united states military still trying to make super soldiers. Why aren't the amazing discoveries made every second page of UFF, why isn't the world a better place? Where the hell does a superhuman like Namor go after almost taking down a city? I HATE UFF!

your jokin' right?

the U thing is much much stronger than normal thing and normal thing has 100 ton strength

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think Ultimate Marvel started off good with the first issues of Ultimate Spider-Man (I found Ultimate Green Goblin to be dumb but the stories were good), but then it just got extremely ******ed. It's like they try and make the Ultimate versions of the characters to be as different as possible instead of having them be new, fresh interpretations like it originally started.

Take Ultimate Spider-Man when he for example. Same costume. Same attitude. Much younger than his 616 counterpart because he's just started unlike his 616 counterpart who's been Spider-Man for over 10 years. He's basically a fresh, reinterpretation of the character and his origins set in today's modern age.

Now we have Ultimate Cable. He's Ultimate Wolverine from the future without the healing factor. Nothing at all like 616 Cable. It's f**king ******ed! It's stupid crap like this that makes me hate the Ultimate line.