Conan

[afan]

Not if they're trying to portray the proper Robert E. Howard Conan. He was always described as 'Panther like', so I think his body type is fine... I'm hope this movie is as far away from Ah-nold's punching exploits.... Conan is like the Punisher, in that he's actually a really interesting, deep and intriguing character, but everytime he gets represented on film, they just make them bland, buff, archetypal action heroes.

Agree totally with the depth of the character....but.......
Punisher....? not so sure......

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Agreed Nivek. There is soooo much freakin potential in the REH stuff... I just re-read them all the other week, and they're such great stories... If you've read the Nemedian Chronicles graphic novels, which are essentially adaptations of the classic REH stories, i'd say the way they're laid out would be the perfect way to set the movie... it kind of starts with bits from ancient texts, depicting of the great warrior Conan and how he managed to rise up, from Barbarian and thief to King of Aquilonia.

To me, the best adaptation so far has been the Conan video game, with Ron Perlman... I'd love to see a Beowulf style Mo-Cap Conan film, with Ron Perlman doing it... that would make me extremely happy, and also make it easier for them to portray everything authentically.

 

[Amazing Afroman]

He definately has the look. From what I've been able to find on youtube he also has the action chops. I haven't been able to see any extended acting scenes but if he can do that well and gets a little more cut by training before principal photography I think we'll be on good shape.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Agree totally with the depth of the character....but.......
Punisher....? not so sure......

He's only ever portrayed as a guy who just kills people for the sake of it, and then it just becomes an action movie... They never explore whats interesting about the character, which is how someone can so completely lose their humanity and be driven by killing, but still justify their own actions? Plenty of great Garth Ennis written Punisher comics that manage to do that, yet after three movies, he's just another Action hero, either portrayed as a revenge flick or just a souless killing machine.

 

[nephron]

This is ridiculous.
What next? Is there any possible way they could make this project any stupider?

I've read the script, folks, and it has nothing to do with Conan. Nothing at all. They've completely rewrittern the origin of the character in such a way as to totally alter Conan's basic motivation. Imagine if a Batman movie was made where Batman's parents were never killed, & Batman is portrayed as a fun-loving, wisecracking smartass who fights crime for the fun of it. That's what they're doing to Conan. They're even completely ignoring basic details of Conan's world - like if, in the Harry Potter movie they changed the name of Hogwort's for no reason, & made Harry come from Dublin. That's what they're doing with Conan. Again. Still.

Now they've cast a Hawaiin. I get so sick of people saying "Race doesn't matter! He's a good actor, and that's all that matters!"

Sometimes race does matter, and we all know it. Most of the time it does not, but sometimes it does. For some characters, ethnicity is important to the character & how the character fits into his world. Conan is one of those characters.

Other examples, both fictional and non: Black Panther, Geronimo, Muhammed Ali, Malcolm X, William Wallace.

Imagine if Denzel Washington was cast as William Wallace? He IS a really good actor, but a black guy can not be a medieval Scotsman - it would destroy suspension of disbelief. Is that racist? I don't think so. Or how about if John Cho was cast as Geronimo?

Well, that's what they're doing with Conan.

Conan is a Cimmerian. The Cimmerians ARE A RACE. A fictional race yes, but Howard was very, very clear on what the Cimmerians were.

Take the Wakandans from Marvel Comics - the Wakandans are a fictional ethnicity, but clearly they're supposed to be black people, and it would be dumb as hell if they made a Black Panther movie & cast a white guy.

The Cimmerians were ancestral Celts, and Conan's racial status as a Cimmerian was a very important part of how he fit into his world. For Conan, race DOES matter, and casting Momoa is EXACTLY the same thing as casting a white guy to be the Black Panther, or a black guy to be William Wallace. It's stupid.

Why do these people hate Robert E. Howard so much?

 

[Nivek]

I agree on the story/ origin stuff, but casting wise, this guy has a very good look to him, I don't see the complaints. It's not like they casted someone like that Son of a Beach Ahnold clone guy. THAT would have been a mistake.

 

[rogue trooper]

....exactly. I'm sure that if he had not sported dreadlocks nor his Hawaiian ethnicity mentioned, there would not be this "he's not the right ethnicity" stuff talk.

 

[Wolfman]

Right. It's not like you could look at him ands say "that guy's Hawaiian." He looks perfect for the part.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

But in the Robert E. Howard, Conan was described as tanned, darkish skin. This guys skin is how I pictured it, not black but not white. He's always had a tanned complexion in most comics too, including the ones faithful to REH.

 

[Nivek]

And just like most Conan Illustrations, the guy has light colored, piercing eyes. The only hang up is his hair, but he will be wigged up anyway.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

To me, the Cary Nord Conan is what he should look like

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0505/10/conan.jpg

 

[afan]

He's only ever portrayed as a guy who just kills people for the sake of it, and then it just becomes an action movie... They never explore whats interesting about the character, which is how someone can so completely lose their humanity and be driven by killing, but still justify their own actions? Plenty of great Garth Ennis written Punisher comics that manage to do that, yet after three movies, he's just another Action hero, either portrayed as a revenge flick or just a souless killing machine.

Is this your understanding of Conan's character?

The character is used by Howard to demonstrate that civilization is an unnatural and corrupt contrivance while the savage in Conan is the pure and untainted honorable nature of man. Conan never abandons the savage code of honor that is his Cimmerian birthright. He doesn't need to justify killing any more than a lion needs to justify it, and his killing is always justified by his code of honor, i.e. survival, the protection of those that he has sworn allegiance to, etc., and BTW he only swears allegiance to those that deserve it according to his standards.

Are you perhaps referring to his berserk rage in combat?

 

[rogue trooper]

Regarding the script having yet another Conan origin, while I'm kinda' weary of this stuff to a degree, I wanna see how the origin story of Solomon Kane in the film is played out, as he is another character Howard never provided an origin in the books. If it works on Solomon Kane, it might work on Conan. We'll see.

 

[Wolfman]

Jason seems to have quite large tattoo on his left hand. I bet the make-up department is happy about that one

 

[nephron]

You have to understand why Howard created the world he did. He liked historical adventure fiction, but the problem with straight-up historical fiction is that you're tied down to one time period, so you can't set a story in the Age of Sail, and then have your hero encounter Vikings in the next story - it wouldn't make any sense.

To solve this problem, Howard created a fictional setting where each country is essentially an analogue of a specific place in a specific period in history, populated by a specific people. Zingara is Spain during the Age of Sail. Asgard & Vanaheim is Scandinavia during the Dark Ages. Stygia is a dark, sorcerous version of Ancient Egypt. Aquilonia is France during the High Medieval period.

Cimmeria is Ancient Ireland & Britain. The Cimmerians are analogues of Celtic people who have black hair & dark complexions - like Pierce Brosnan. I'm not saying Pierce Brosnan would make a good Conan, just that he's an example of the ethnicity Howard clearly intended the Cimmerians to be.

This Momoa guy is obviously not Celtic-looking. At all. Aside from that, he's too pretty, not at all scary looking, and not big enough.

Again, if the goal is to make a movie based on Conan as his creator intended (which it's not, but if it was), then casting this guy is EXACTLY the same thing as casting Dwayne Johnson as William Wallace. It's stupid.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Is this your understanding of Conan's character?

The character is used by Howard to demonstrate that civilization is an unnatural and corrupt contrivance while the savage in Conan is the pure and untainted honorable nature of man. Conan never abandons the savage code of honor that is his Cimmerian birthright. He doesn't need to justify killing any more than a lion needs to justify it, and his killing always justified by his code of honor, i.e. survival, the protection of those that he has sworn allegiance to, etc., and BTW he only swears allegiance to those that deserve it according to his standards.

Are you perhaps referring to his berserk rage in combat?

No, i was only talking about the Punisher there. My initial point of comparing Punisher with Conan was that they both have been poorly represented in their Film counterparts, and the interesting parts of their character has been ignored. Punisher is turned into just an action hero, and Conan is depicted as just brute strength with a sword.

You're description of what Conan should be is perfect. My favourite part of a Conan story isn't the killing or the action, but when he enters a new city for the first time, and its foreign to him. And then theres always the inevitable encounted with a so called 'civilized person' that usually ends up with someones skull being split. Also, they never properly convey Conan's intelligence... Sure he's no philosopher, but he's supposed to be extremely cunning and perceptive.

 

[afan]

Right. It's not like you could look at him ands say "that guy's Hawaiian." He looks perfect for the part.

If anything in this picture at least he could be darker.
Blue contacts IMO are a must. That's one feature that Howard focussed on most often....the steel blue eyes beneath a darkened brow. Also they will need to beat him up a bit .....some scars perhaps. Even young Conan should be "weathered"....being raised Cimmerian is no picnic....."It's not the years it's the mileage".

 

[rogue trooper]

to nephron:

Mamoa isn't as ethnic-looking as Dwayne Johnson.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

This Momoa guy is obviously not Celtic-looking. At all. Aside from that, he's too pretty, not at all scary looking, and not big enough.

Thats exactly it. He's constanly described as having fiery, intense eyes, and the look of a killer. He's the kinda guy that would make you say 'Oh ****' just from making eye contact. Jason just isn't badass enough.

 

[afan]

No, i was only talking about the Punisher there. My initial point of comparing Punisher with Conan was that they both have been poorly represented in their Film counterparts, and the interesting parts of their character has been ignored. Punisher is turned into just an action hero, and Conan is depicted as just brute strength with a sword.

You're description of what Conan should be is perfect. My favourite part of a Conan story isn't the killing or the action, but when he enters a new city for the first time, and its foreign to him. And then theres always the inevitable encounted with a so called 'civilized person' that usually ends up with someones skull being split. Also, they never properly convey Conan's intelligence... Sure he's no philosopher, but he's supposed to be extremely cunning and perceptive.

I'm with ya all the way...........
And you are 100% correct regarding the intelligence of Conan. In a very short time he learns foreign tongues and skills. His adaptive prowess is second to none.

 

[rogue trooper]

Thats exactly it. He's constanly described as having fiery, intense eyes, and the look of a killer. He's the kinda guy that would make you say 'Oh ****' just from making eye contact. Jason just isn't badass enough.

Well, I'm sure that before he did 300, none of us could have imagined The Phantom of The Opera's Gerard Butler as a Herculean-looking and bada$$ Leonidas.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Well, I'm sure that before he did 300, none of us could have imagined The Phantom of The Opera's Gerard Butler as a Herculean-looking and bada$$ Leonidas.

Well yeah, he did. He still had that presence. I'm talking about the look, the face and the attitude. Not build, or how you're presented. Think Clint Eastwood... he's not a big, buff guy, but if he was staring right at you, you'd crap your pants lol.

 

[Wolfman]

C'mon now, just look at this tribute video to Ronon Dex, and say he's not Conanish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnhdzRjZhvM

And what comes to his size, he's atleast 6'3", wikipedia says he's 6'5" even. His in good shape so packing few pounds more for Conan propably isn't a problem for him.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Looks are only part of it though.... I could forgive superficial differences like skin colour, hair colour, height and build, if I thought the actor properly embodied what makes Conan great... It's like the casting for Captain America... there are hundreds of guys with blonde hair and chiseled features, but you need to have a strong presence and be able to convey the characters depth.

 

[Nivek]

C'mon now, just look at this tribute video to Ronon Dex, and say he's not Conanish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnhdzRjZhvM

And what comes to his size, he's atleast 6'3", wikipedia says he's 6'5" even. His in good shape so packing few pounds more for Conan propably isn't a problem for him.

Thanks for posting that. At least we know he has swordwork and combat training down!