Connecting Wolverine and the X-Men Trilogy (SPOILERS!!!)

[dark_b]

haha...i think wolverine tried to connect there storyline with the trilogy though, theydid convince me on why cyclops doesnt know who wolverine is and why wolverine loses his memories lame as they did it though.

how?

 

[Ipodman]

cyclops was blindfolded? he prolly didnt see wolverine running thru the 'prison'

 

[squeekness]

yeah but Fox shouted his name at one point when Cyke was right next to her. I caught that...

 

[Ipodman]

maybe thats why cyclops acted so coldly towards "this wolverine fellow" in X1?
i dont know...

 

[Ipodman]

do u guys think the guy with the black tougue in the 'prison' was toad?
and if so, is his age in X1 correct?

 

[squeekness]

Hard to say, but I don't see why it couldn't have been. He wasn't a teenager in X1.

 

[Ziggyman]

Man I hate this thread...But I must contribute probably the biggest plot hole...

Japan!!!

No mention of Japan in all 3 films...And that's the place where he honed his skills and became the best at there it at what he does! Plus that's probably his most recent memories of his past...

 

[AnorexicBatman]

The tentacle monsters probably scared his mind....

Xavier: Okay Wolverine... let me probe your mind... what happened in Japan?
Logan: *whispers* no... no.. please no... noooo!!!

No Really. I bet Bryan Singer is going, "LOL FAIL!"
He probably doesn't care anymore... just like Burton and Batman....

 

[OoAnd1]

defenrds will say that Scott in X1 knows already wolverine.
some will say that he couldnt see. Emma and otehr mutants obviously told Scott that a guy with claws saved them.

so since he knows that he saved them why didnt he say ''thank you. years ago you saved me'' ?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh because they had to force Scott in the mvoie.

You're making too many false assumptions. Nothing that happened in X1 indicated that Cyclops knew of Wolverine... soo.. he didn't. It's that simple. Why didn't he? It could be a bunch of reasons... it was so quick they said "a guy with knives" cut the chains.. or maybe they were tortured so bad.. Prof had to give them a bit of amnesia so they could mentally recover from it. I don't know.. there are reasonable explanations.. unless you don't want to accept any.

Some explanations...

....Continuing the research from the lab, his tests killed Emma Frost and others, which is why they never ended up as X-Men. His evil continued when he lied to Wolverine about his knowledge of his origin.

Gambit minded his own business, and by the time X-Men United happened, he was older and too out of shape to fight effectively and stayed out of it...never to be seen again in X-Men continuity (great use of a popular character guys!!)

Deadpool pulled himself out of the wreckage and decided to get his face fixed and help Blade kill some vampires. He never revealed his true identity to anyone ever again, not did he seek out Sabretooth or Wolverine.

Blob had a heart attack shortly before X-1.

Stryker was not only pardoned, but promoted.

WHAT? Why did Emma die? Prof said in X1.. students graduate.. then either become educated civilians or X-Men. Not every graduate becomes an X-Men.. or even remains an X-Men. As Beast showed in X3.. he was once one.. "suit still fits", but quit before X1 .

And who said Gambit was out of shape 15 yrs later? X1-X3 started the continuity that he was never an X-Men. He was never shown before at all. This movie stays true to that continuity. Only here.. he does cross paths with Wolverine before X1. Then he's off living his own life doing whatever we imagined he might be doing when we watched the original trilogy.

Deadpool prolly had his memory wiped like Stryker wanted done on Wolverine.

Blob? I'm pretty sure Victor said Blob died. No heartattack.. murder.

Stryker still working for the government means he was found not guilty. Or maybe the fact that they found him walking in bloody feet in a trance worked to his defense that he was a victim as well. You don't get pardoned and promoted.

If we're having real discussions here.. I'm in.. but if I'm in the wrong place and we just want to find things to mock.. I'll leave.

 

[OoAnd1]

but if he loses his memory way after the experiment and as shown in wolverine, he shouldn't have any memories of anything before the end of wolverine. and if he does start getting his memories back before that, he should know who Sabretooth and Stryker are. In X-men 2 he knows Strykers name but thats all. But after the experiment he knows why he is hunting stryker in wolverine. If he has other flashbacks not shown in X1 and X2 he should know who stryker and sabretooth are.

I'm not an expert on memory. But people do have traumatic events.. people to get amnesia. They don't forget EVERYTHING.. and when they remember things.. they don't remember EVERYTHING. They don't even always remember things 100% accurate. Or they have false memories.

Like you said, he remembers bits of the procedure.. and he remembers a name. But he can't pull everything together or perfectly. That's it... that is what they call brain trauma. There's no right-way or wrong-way to have brain trauma.

 

[Heretic]

Emma showed control of her powers and leadership skills. when Stryker returned and destroyed her school and captured her friends...she stayed at home. Remember, this m is Stryker, who had kidnapped her for years...but she cared so little that she stayed home. She also didnt care to help her friends in part 3 (then again, nether did Nightcrawler, which should have been explained)

Deadpool (probably) did NOTHING. Dont give me that "they didnt explain it so im guessing" argument. Deadpool never felt the need to ever address Stryker, Wolverine or Sabretooth again. That is established movie continuity. Mind wipes are you GUESS.

Gambit...again...did not care about Strykers return and almost genocide of all mutants years later, so he stayed to himself. Of course, you could explain reasonably that he had no way of knowing it was even happening.

 

[e-three]

Wolverine doesn't have to connect completely to the rest of the X-Men trilogy. If I remember correctly, in X2 Stryker said it was 15 years since he last saw Wolverine. Assuming the events of the Wolverine movie were the last time Stryker saw Logan before X2, then there's roughly a 15 year gap in between Wolverine and X-Men 1 (X2 doesn't take place that much later than X-Men 1 if I'm not mistaken). This is supported by the fact that Scott is still a teen and Xavier can walk. Those missing 15 years can be used to explain a lot of the inconsistencies between Wolverine and the X-Men trilogy. In X-Men 1 Sabretooth doesn't act the same or remember Logan from the Wolverine movie? Something happened in those 15 years. Scott doesn't know who Logan is? He never saw Logan in the Wolverine movie, and again it's been 15 years. The flash backs in the first two X-Men movies don't match up with what happened in Wolverine? It's been 15...oh wait, never mind, they just screwed up there. Although you could probably stretch it and say Logan's memory in the X-Men movies is still really hazy and a couple of the flashbacks were actually Logan's nightmares but that's an awfully big stretch.

As for Stryker's son, "school" doesn't necessarily mean a filled-to-capacity campus...remember, in the comics the original "School for Gifted Youngsters" consisted of only 5 students. According to Xavier, Scott was "one of" his first students, NOT his first student. It's possible in the movie universe that Xavier and Magneto started taking in mutants, Jason being one of them, thereby unofficially starting a school. Sometime after Jason leaves, Xavier and Magneto have their falling out, Xavier decides to start the school in an official capacity, then sometime later the events of Wolverine kick in. Yeah, that's a lot of B.S., but using B.S. to explain the mess ups in Marvel products is a time-honored tradition, back when it was called "trying to win a No-Prize".

 

[OoAnd1]

Another continuity issue is with Stryker's son. X2 established he was at Xavier's school...and yet, he's already captured by the time we get to the middle of this film.

And yet, Xavier in X-Men, said Scott was one of his firs students. It seems that Scott's first time with Xavier is during the end of this film.

How does this even remotely work with X-Men and X2?

Jason kills his mom. Xavier starts his school with a handful of students including Jean Grey. Stryker brings him over says "Cure him!". Prof says.. "I don't do that ish." Stryker leaves with his son. He must control him.. locks him up. Mad, Stryker starts the plan to build a "Deadpool" to kill all mutants. Captures a couple dozen. Wolverine frees them. Prof is there to pick them up. A few (Cyclops, Emma?) stay with him to be students, most just want to go back home to where they were before they were captured. Cyclops is one of the first 10 or so students of his school that ends up with hundreds.

Wasn't hard. And sounds air-tight.

 

[OoAnd1]

Man I hate this thread...But I must contribute probably the biggest plot hole...

Japan!!!

No mention of Japan in all 3 films...And that's the place where he honed his skills and became the best at there it at what he does! Plus that's probably his most recent memories of his past...

How is Japan a plothole? No mention in Japan in the first 3.. true. And? There was no mention of California.. India.. South America.. does that mean he didn't go there? We don't know. No one asked him... "Hey, you been to Japan?". So why would him going there ruin anything.

Origins showed he already had the same skills from the original trilogy. Why would you say he honed his skills there? Because of comics? Movie-verse history is important here.. not comic-verse. Maybe he went there only to go away.. maybe he did go there and trained more. We don't know.. it hasn't been written yet what happened there.

And yes, being in Japan is one of his most recent memories. They said in X1 that he's been wandering for 15 years without memory of what happened before those 15 years. During X1.. he knows and remembers everything that happened to him during those last 15 years. But he's spent them looking for answers.. looking to remember. What exactly he did during those 15 years.. no one ever asked him. And he never requested help with because that was never the issue.

 

[OoAnd1]

Emma showed control of her powers and leadership skills. when Stryker returned and destroyed her school and captured her friends...she stayed at home. Remember, this m is Stryker, who had kidnapped her for years...but she cared so little that she stayed home. She also didnt care to help her friends in part 3 (then again, nether did Nightcrawler, which should have been explained)

Deadpool (probably) did NOTHING. Dont give me that "they didnt explain it so im guessing" argument. Deadpool never felt the need to ever address Stryker, Wolverine or Sabretooth again. That is established movie continuity. Mind wipes are you GUESS.

Gambit...again...did not care about Strykers return and almost genocide of all mutants years later, so he stayed to himself. Of course, you could explain reasonably that he had no way of knowing it was even happening.

You're the one that is FIRST guessing. It's your guess that she was a student in the school. Who said that? Did Origins say that? Did X1-3 say that? She was freed. Then she went home. That's STICKING with the continuity that she was NOT an X-Men. What is the issue here? You're the one changing the continuity by not going with what the movies showed but by assuming she decided to become a student for Xavier instead of going home. So why would she care in X2.. she had no connection with the X-Men.

Deadpool.. so we have two guesses. 1) He had his memory erased (Stryker's M.O.) or 2) Deadpool decided not to get revenge on people that hurt him.

Which sounds reasonable and which sounds reaching?

And Gambit.. even during Origins.. after he escaped.. he was found playing cards. Not looking for revenge. He's minding his own business when Wolverine brings him back involved.. why would he even know/care to get involved 20 yrs later.

 

[bullets]

Deadpool (probably) did NOTHING. Dont give me that "they didnt explain it so im guessing" argument. Deadpool never felt the need to ever address Stryker, Wolverine or Sabretooth again. That is established movie continuity. Mind wipes are you GUESS.

How is this established movie continuity when we haven't seen wolverine 2 or a solo deadpool movie.also many things could have occured between wolverine 1 and x-1

 

[Catman]

wow how many times must this be said hell liev said it in the interviews the past couple of days. This is early life of sabertooth when we meet him in x1 he has become totally animalistic .In the wolverine film he has some humanity but by x1 it is all gone under the tutelage of magneto and the certain missions he does.

Even if Sabertooth becomes animalistic he seems a little too calm in X1. Here he was very violent and blood-thirsty.

Ok, I had this idea. Remember that needle Stryker used on Deathstrike and Magneto to control them? What if Magneto had that serum and used it on Sabertooth in X1?

Why would Magneto do that?

 

[OoAnd1]

How is this established movie continuity when we haven't seen wolverine 2 or a solo deadpool movie.also many things could have occured between wolverine 1 and x-1

With Deadpool.. Sabertooth, Stryker, X-students....... people here think Origins took place the day before X1. Like you said... 15 years!

All you can do is guess as to what happened until we see it. Or it can remain a mystery.

But not knowing how someone went from a muscle-building contestant in Austria to the Governor of California... does not mean it didn't happen. One day we may know Sabertooth's and etc's "bridge stories". And if a "bridge story" sounds unbelievable, like one becoming a famous actor in between, it's not because it's laziness or force... it's because that was in fact THE KEY in the turnaround.

 

[Catman]

With Deadpool.. Sabertooth, Stryker, X-students....... people here think Origins took place the day before X1. Like you said... 15 years!

All you can do is guess as to what happened until we see it. Or it can remain a mystery.

But not knowing how someone went from a muscle-building contestant in Austria to the Governor of California... does not mean it didn't happen. One day we may know Sabertooth's and etc's "bridge stories". And if a "bridge story" sounds unbelievable, like one becoming a famous actor in between, it's not because it's laziness or force... it's because that was in fact THE KEY in the turnaround.

I understand what you're saying. But you have to understand that this is a prequel to the trilogy. That's what they're doing now. We got Wolverine. Then Magneto. And then First Class. These movies are SUPPOSED to lead to the events in the trilogy. So, when something doesn't make sense they pretty much dropped the ball.

 

[OoAnd1]

I understand what you're saying. But you have to understand that this is a prequel to the trilogy. That's what they're doing now. We got Wolverine. Then Magneto. And then First Class. These movies are SUPPOSED to lead to the events in the trilogy. So, when something doesn't make sense they pretty much dropped the ball.

And I know what you're saying. But this movie is a prequel for Wolverine's character. It's not "X-Men Begins". I'm with those saying "we need more info"... I'm just saying, let's allow the other movies... Magneto? Deadpool? Gambit? First Class?... whatever they pick..... to fill those gaps up.

XO: Wolverine was not supposed to be THE prequel for the first trilogy. Just a prequel.

It's like complaining after "The Phantom Menace" that it makes no sense for that little nice kid to become Darth Vader. Just like in this case and that case... there's about 15 more years of stuff that happened.

 

[Catman]

But this movie is a prequel for Wolverine's character. It's not "X-Men Begins".

It kinda is X-Men Begins. X-Men is about a TEAM. So, not everyone is gonna get the time and devotion they deserve. So, that's the point of these movies. It's to allow audiences to get to know them better.

 

[Project862006]

let me make this perfectly clear Gavin hood said he wanted to make it his own he said he didn't want to be a prisoner of his own movie he could care less what singer did before him

 

[Catman]

Too bad that's what he was hired for.

 

[Heretic]

You're the one that is FIRST guessing. It's your guess that she was a student in the school. Who said that? Did Origins say that? Did X1-3 say that? She was freed. Then she went home. That's STICKING with the continuity that she was NOT an X-Men. What is the issue here? You're the one changing the continuity by not going with what the movies showed but by assuming she decided to become a student for Xavier instead of going home. So why would she care in X2.. she had no connection with the X-Men.

Deadpool.. so we have two guesses. 1) He had his memory erased (Stryker's M.O.) or 2) Deadpool decided not to get revenge on people that hurt him.

Which sounds reasonable and which sounds reaching?

And Gambit.. even during Origins.. after he escaped.. he was found playing cards. Not looking for revenge. He's minding his own business when Wolverine brings him back involved.. why would he even know/care to get involved 20 yrs later.

Okay...I change my point about Emma.

Instead of honing her skills to better take on others who may want to kidnap and torment her, she went home and became a normal girl, never to be seen again in battle.

BOTH of your excuses for Deadpool seem to be reaching. You are inventing a mindwipe because you need to explain his absence...Deadpool would either have died in the 15 years between, continued to be controlled by Stryker, or he would have killed Stryker. Being a killer by trade...I doubt hed walk away not caring.

Gambit WOULDNT care...Youre arguing just to argue. My point was that as far as continuity goes, Gambit disappeared and never bothere with any mutant nonsense again on a major scale. You agreed yet somehow tried to disagree at the same time.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

defenrds will say that Scott in X1 knows already wolverine.
some will say that he couldnt see. Emma and otehr mutants obviously told Scott that a guy with claws saved them.

so since he knows that he saved them why didnt he say ''thank you. years ago you saved me'' ?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh because they had to force Scott in the mvoie.

No, because it's not a for sure for certain fact that anyone would have told Scott that "some guy with claws" saved us.

They very well could have told him that some fellow mutants came and freed them.

You're just making it up in your head that they "obviously" told him so you can have something to complain about, no matter how inaccurate it may be.