Constantine General Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Mikelus]

If there isn't a significant bounceback in the next few weeks Constantine is in serious danger of being cancelled. It's doing worse than Dracula did in the same timeslot, and that show was cancelled.

Next week will be the first episode that doesn't go head to head with the World Series or Halloween, so there's cause for some optimism, but if the show doesn't start turning in at least a 1.2 in the live+SD demographic we're in serious trouble.

Exactly, and Dracula was a better show too, but if ratings are not good for the network, they're done. But you know Sawyer, the Titanic could be sinking and he would say everything is fine!

 

[squeekness]

I don't think it's fair to discount DVR viewings. I work evenings and am not home when pretty much all my shows come on. It's like saying I don't count.

 

[famicommander]

I don't think it's fair to discount DVR viewings. I work evenings and am not home when pretty much all my shows come on. It's like saying I don't count.

It's not discounting them, it's just that they don't factor much into whether a show is renewed or cancelled.

The ratings are useful because they measure commercial viewership. The vast majority of people with DVRs skip commercials, so advertisers don't really care about DVR ratings.

Add to that the fact that the shows which beat Constantine in live L+SD ratings will also see DVR increases. Constantine's numbers will go up in absolute terms, but so will all the other shows it's in competition with. Constantine probably will not improve much in relative terms.

 

[Onslaught-]

Friday at 10 is going to kill this show.

 

[Jason Kane]

Once again, DVR ratings aren't that important. Especially when the live+SD ratings are poor to begin with:
http://tvline.com/2012/10/18/fall-tv-2012-dvr-ratings-increases/

DVR ratings really matter when networks are trying to sell shows for syndication/digital download/streaming packages; they don't actually help a show much in its initial run.

If there isn't a significant bounceback in the next few weeks Constantine is in serious danger of being cancelled. It's doing worse than Dracula did in the same timeslot, and that show was cancelled.

Next week will be the first episode that doesn't go head to head with the World Series or Halloween, so there's cause for some optimism, but if the show doesn't start turning in at least a 1.2 in the live+SD demographic we're in serious trouble.

A timeslot moving may also happen before a cancellation.

All the more reason we have to keep doing are part with the WOM to the "Not-We".

 

[Jason Kane]

Friday at 10 is going to kill this show.

So far, it's yet to kill Hannibal

 

[famicommander]

Friday at 10 is going to kill this show.

The fact that they put it in that timeslot, on that night, and decided to debut it late in the season, head to head against the World Series should tell you NBC didn't have much faith in it in the first place. They know Friday nights in the late timeslot means lower ratings, and yet Constantine is still under-performing.

I hope for a miracle turnaround, but at this point I think the best we can reasonably expect is for them to burn through their initial 13 episode order. If it keeps sliding we might see it get pulled sooner (it probably depends on whether Hannibal is ready to start airing by that time).

Dracula was much cheaper to produce and got better ratings and it was still cancelled. Grimm is doing terribly right now too (series low this week) but that show has the benefit of being owned and produced by NBC Universal, and also being on the verge of hitting a syndication number.

I really hope that the World Series and Halloween had a bigger impact on Constantine that I'm guessing they did, because I feel like it will be lucky to hit a 1.0 next week.

 

[Fallen Angel]

You seem eager for this show to fail. I have no idea why.

 

[Jason Kane]

You seem eager for this show to fail. I have no idea why.

Either he misses Dracula or he just a right miseryguts.

 

[HighFivingMF]

But Dracula was really ****ing dumb and this isn't. So there's that.

 

[famicommander]

You seem eager for this show to fail. I have no idea why.

Where have I indicated anything of the sort?

I repeatedly stated that I wanted it to do well. But the facts are the facts, and it would be very surprising for this show to get renewed based on the facts we have.

Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but this is the most likely outcome.

EDIT: also, I've never even seen Dracula

 

[Jason Kane]

Where have I indicated anything of the sort?

I repeatedly stated that I wanted it to do well. But the facts are the facts, and it would be very surprising for this show to get renewed based on the facts we have.

Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but this is the most likely outcome.

EDIT: also, I've never even seen Dracula

You sound just like the two doomsayers on Twitter. You can see your way off this subforum, thanks

 

[famicommander]

I'll do nothing of the sort. I'm a fan of the show and I want it to do well. An honest evaluation of its performance does not make me a doom-sayer. The fact that you can read my posts in this thread and think I'm in any way pleased about the show doing poorly is absurd.

In any ratings thread, fans of shows that do poorly do the same mental gymnastics to avoid confronting the fact that their show is failing. They always make excuses, or say to wait for (nearly) irrelevant DVR numbers.

I've seen this same thing happen to tons of shows I was a fan of. Thundercats reboot, Young Justice, Firefly, Green Lantern TAS, etc. You learn to spot them after a while.

When this show is cancelled, nobody who knows anything about TV ratings will be surprised. And I'm sure emotional fans will lash out against NBC, citing the same tired arguments.

 

[antonydelfini]

You sound just like the two doomsayers on Twitter. You can see your way off this subforum, thanks

Jason Kane, he's not being a crazy hater of the show. He's just doing a personal analysis/ observation of the ratings. He's allowed to do so without someone telling him to f#€% off the subforum.

Anyway, I hope the show doesnt get cancelled. I was hpoing we 'd get a Supernatural DC universe on TV. If it gets cancelled, I hope Matt Ryan gets cast in Guillermo's planned Justice League Dark movie, since he's nailed the character IMO.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

They are easing the audience in with the freak of the week stuff before delving deep into the mythology. I just hope audiences stick around long enough for them to get to the more interesting comic stuff.

I hope they get to it before *I* bail. I've only read a few Hellblazer comics so I'm not a hugely knowledgable fan but so far this show feels nothing like them. It's coming off as pretty bland.

"Only 2 episodes in" I know, I know. I'm not following anything else on Friday nights so I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

 

[Jason Kane]

I hope they get to it before *I* bail. I've only read a few Hellblazer comics so I'm not a hugely knowledgable fan but so far this show feels nothing like them. It's coming off as pretty bland.

"Only 2 episodes in" I know, I know. I'm not following anything else on Friday nights so I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

Plus there's the Hunger Demon adaptation to look forward to

 

[Fallen Angel]

I hope they get to it before *I* bail. I've only read a few Hellblazer comics so I'm not a hugely knowledgable fan but so far this show feels nothing like them. It's coming off as pretty bland.

"Only 2 episodes in" I know, I know. I'm not following anything else on Friday nights so I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

This was never going to be a full on Hellblazer adaptation. That would need to be on HBO or something. We're getting the watered down (New 52) version with bits from hellblazer.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I'll have to see if I can dig out the issues I have. There was one where he was snowed in at a diner with some folk with a serial killer on the loose that was pretty cool. I think I picked those up in the early 00's.

This was never going to be a full on Hellblazer adaptation. That would need to be on HBO or something. We're getting the watered down (New 52) version with bits from hellblazer.

Such is the problem w/network tv.

 

[Jason Kane]

This was never going to be a full on Hellblazer adaptation. That would need to be on HBO or something. We're getting the watered down (New 52) version with bits from hellblazer.

Again, the only way its that is if they had Ryan's John mention the New 52 version of his family life and Nick Necro to Liv or see a Zed drawn depiction of The Flash punching John's guts out or him wearing the Helmet of Fate, etc. Plus HBO couldn't anyway knowing they have a snob for a network president who'd prefer adapting good to crap novels and would've passed on adapting Hellblazer like they did Preacher.

Bare in mind, Goyer brought up adapting Hellbazer to NBC, not the other way around; they only asked which project he'd like to do for them. Hell we almost could've had a TV version of Keanustine had Goyer and Cerone not fought tooth and claw to keep more to the comics

 

[Micromind]

Seriously, what's the problem with HBO ?

Most networks are now having comic book based series (when you combine DC and Marvel based shows.)

When every network going after comics based shows, to say nothing about Netfilx shows based on comics, what makes HBO that different ?

 

[Jason Kane]

Seriously, what's the problem with HBO ?

Most networks are now having comic book based series (when you combine DC and Marvel based shows.)

When every network going after comics based shows, to say nothing about Netfilx shows based on comics, what makes HBO that different ?

Hell, they also passed on Mad Men, Breaking Bad and even The Walking Dead, IIRC. They'll pass on adapting the best meterial from the Vertigo in favor of running crap like True Blood into the ground (even with aid from the same EP behind Friends' finale no doubt) and have no issues with CGI dragons.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hell, they also passed on Mad Men, Breaking Bad and even The Walking Dead, IIRC. They'll pass on adapting the best meterial from the Vertigo in favor of running crap like True Blood into the ground (even with aid from the same EP behind Friends' finale no doubt) and have no issues with CGI dragons.

True Blood, as bad as it got, did very well in terms of ratings and subscribes. That is why they footed the bill. GoT prints money as it appeals to a boat load of different people.

Hellblazer is an all time favorite for me, but it doesn't have exactly the biggest hook for more casuals.

 

[Mikelus]

I'll do nothing of the sort. I'm a fan of the show and I want it to do well. An honest evaluation of its performance does not make me a doom-sayer. The fact that you can read my posts in this thread and think I'm in any way pleased about the show doing poorly is absurd.

In any ratings thread, fans of shows that do poorly do the same mental gymnastics to avoid confronting the fact that their show is failing. They always make excuses, or say to wait for (nearly) irrelevant DVR numbers.

I've seen this same thing happen to tons of shows I was a fan of. Thundercats reboot, Young Justice, Firefly, Green Lantern TAS, etc. You learn to spot them after a while.

When this show is cancelled, nobody who knows anything about TV ratings will be surprised. And I'm sure emotional fans will lash out against NBC, citing the same tired arguments.

Yeah, unfortunately, some fans have problems dealing with facts, some things will never change. But if NBC cancels, hopefully WB won't give up and will try to move the show to a safer heaven like the CW, HBO or Netflix.

 

[declan]

It's not discounting them, it's just that they don't factor much into whether a show is renewed or cancelled.

The ratings are useful because they measure commercial viewership. The vast majority of people with DVRs skip commercials, so advertisers don't really care about DVR ratings.

Add to that the fact that the shows which beat Constantine in live L+SD ratings will also see DVR increases. Constantine's numbers will go up in absolute terms, but so will all the other shows it's in competition with. Constantine probably will not improve much in relative terms.

I don't disagree with you that Constantine is going to have to show very significant ratings increases, but I do completely disagree that the live L+SD ratings are insignificant as to whether shows will be cancelled.

It used to be that way, but things are rapidly changing. Gotham is a hyper-example of this because of the Netflix deal, but there will be many more because dvr'ing is increasing everyday.

I pretty max out my dvr with shows every night, but many shows I was interested in turn out to be terrible, and some that I wasn't interested in turn out to be great. So if is a show is great and I watch them "on demand" I'm definitely watching commercials.

The whole paradigm of the way "networks" produce shows and the creators that actually own them is already reflecting that.

Quality is starting to win out.

So far, it's yet to kill Hannibal

Nothing can kill Hannibal, lol. A heady and oddly beautiful series.

The fact that they put it in that timeslot, on that night, and decided to debut it late in the season, head to head against the World Series should tell you NBC didn't have much faith in it in the first place. They know Friday nights in the late timeslot means lower ratings, and yet Constantine is still under-performing.

Dracula was much cheaper to produce and got better ratings and it was still cancelled. Grimm is doing terribly right now too (series low this week) but that show has the benefit of being owned and produced by NBC Universal, and also being on the verge of hitting a syndication number.

I really hope that the World Series and Halloween had a bigger impact on Constantine that I'm guessing they did, because I feel like it will be lucky to hit a 1.0 next week.

I've read Dracula was incredibly expensive to produce, so I have no idea how you're comparing the two in that regard.

I'll do nothing of the sort. I'm a fan of the show and I want it to do well. An honest evaluation of its performance does not make me a doom-sayer. The fact that you can read my posts in this thread and think I'm in any way pleased about the show doing poorly is absurd.

In any ratings thread, fans of shows that do poorly do the same mental gymnastics to avoid confronting the fact that their show is failing. They always make excuses, or say to wait for (nearly) irrelevant DVR numbers.

I've seen this same thing happen to tons of shows I was a fan of. Thundercats reboot, Young Justice, Firefly, Green Lantern TAS, etc. You learn to spot them after a while.

When this show is cancelled, nobody who knows anything about TV ratings will be surprised. And I'm sure emotional fans will lash out against NBC, citing the same tired arguments.

I'm not singling you out, but DVR numbers aren't even nearly irrelevant now. Advertisers will figure all this out sooner than later.

 

[Jason Kane]

I don't disagree with you that Constantine is going to have to show very significant ratings increases, but I do completely disagree that the live L+SD ratings are insignificant as to whether shows will be cancelled.

It used to be that way, but things are rapidly changing. Gotham is a hyper-example of this because of the Netflix deal, but there will be many more because dvr'ing is increasing everyday.

I pretty max out my dvr with shows every night, but many shows I was interested in turn out to be terrible, and some that I wasn't interested in turn out to be great. So if is a show is great and I watch them "on demand" I'm definitely watching commercials.

The whole paradigm of the way "networks" produce shows and the creators that actually own them is already reflecting that.

Quality is starting to win out.



Nothing can kill Hannibal, lol. A heady and oddly beautiful series.



I've read Dracula was incredibly expensive to produce, so I have no idea how you're comparing the two in that regard.



I'm not singling you out, but DVR numbers aren't even nearly irrelevant now. Advertisers will figure all this out sooner than later.

I tried (well, attempted) to explain it to one chap over on the Bleeding Cool forums but the big picture's yet to form.