Cops on stakeout see 12-year-old kid running with a toy gun, and shoot him dead

[TBadora]

Cops in the US are violent/corrupt/trigger happy, because every time they slip up, the court backs them up. Bad cops need to be made examples of, big time.

 

[twylight]

It doesn't matter. Police are trained to use force one step above what the suspect is using. In otherwords, if they see a gun, they are trained to take two shots to the center mass and one to the head.

To an obvious child? Please, I know that it's a 'shoot to kill' thing, because I was trained in that for all my weapons classes, but we also learn that a shot to either of the knee's will take someone down long enough to contain them. Especially a 12 year old, it's not like the child could have aimed so perfectly if he was in pain and on the ground.

 

[Kritish]

It doesn't matter. Police are trained to use force one step above what the suspect is using. In otherwords, if they see a gun, they are trained to take two shots to the center mass and one to the head.

One in the head? I'm not failure with that. I'm 99 percent sure it's two for the center mass.

 

[twylight]

....P.S. Matt this is very enjoyable, stop luring me back to community with the Survivor game.

I don't get nearly as much intellectual stimulation at college.

 

[Addendum]

Well, at least it didn't happen in Memphis.

I heard about this on the local news when it happened. I feel bad for the parents and the officer.

 

[Matt]

I take an old fashioned to things like that, when you're in any public service, you put the lives of those you serve above yours. If there could be any reasonable doubt as to the guilt of someone you don't take the shot.

As for not stopping, it's a 12 year old kid. We don't know what was going on, but to be honest if some strange man with a gun who *might* have been in civilian clothes told me to stop, I sure the heck wouldn't. Even if he was in an identifiable police uniform, do you really think a 12 year old would stop if asked? he gets bossed around enough at school and home, I'm nod condoning him not listening, but it's a kid. *shrugs*

If anything it's a lesson to children to listen. But at the same time, I feel the officer should have used more caution.

Another question I have about it, is *if* the child was running by, which I read as 'past' why were they stopping him? Didn't they have enough data on the situation to be able to tell if the child was a part of whatever they were staking out? Why break cover over a child?

I'm guessing they couldn't make out if it was a child or not.

And I see your point about public service and accepting the risk, but if they are on a stake out looking for a known perp and they see a suspect with a gun who won't stop or drop the weapon...what should they do? Wait to be shot?

 

[Kritish]

To an obvious child? Please, I know that it's a 'shoot to kill' thing, because I was trained in that for all my weapons classes, but we also learn that a shot to either of the knee's will take someone down long enough to contain them. Especially a 12 year old, it's not like the child could have aimed so perfectly if he was in pain and on the ground.

I've known some pretty tall twelve-year-olds and some pretty short adults in my life. I'm sure the officer didn't know the age of the child. Under the law you can kill someone in self-defense as long as you believe your is in danger.
Shooting someone with a rubber knife who at least seems to be attacking you for example.

 

[Matt]

One in the head? I'm not failure with that. I'm 99 percent sure it's two for the center mass.

I am 100 % sure that most law enforcement agencies include the FBI, and LA and NYPD include the head shot do to the prevelance of body armor.

 

[Sloth7d]

if it was a super-soaker , that'd be funny and horrible.

If it was a super soaker he'd be completely justified. Getting wet in this weather? Pnemonia city. That can be fatal.

 

[Matt]

To an obvious child? Please, I know that it's a 'shoot to kill' thing, because I was trained in that for all my weapons classes, but we also learn that a shot to either of the knee's will take someone down long enough to contain them. Especially a 12 year old, it's not like the child could have aimed so perfectly if he was in pain and on the ground.

Police are discouraged against knee shots because

1) The legs are most likely moving and a very hard target to hit when compared to center mass.

2) Leg shots aren't gauranteed to neutralize.

 

[Matt]

Cops in the US are violent/corrupt/trigger happy, because every time they slip up, the court backs them up. Bad cops need to be made examples of, big time.

Thats the problem. Everyone is assuming that he shot this kid for the hell of it. Why is everyone assuming this cop is some sort of sociopath? You too Sloth? Did either of you stop to consider it was dark and all he could see was the silloutte of the gun?

 

[Kritish]

I am 100 % sure that most law enforcement agencies include the FBI, and LA and NYPD include the head shot do to the prevelance of body armor.

I was aware of groups like the FBI and Secret Service practicing that. Wasn't aware of law enforcement though.

 

[Matt]

....P.S. Matt this is very enjoyable, stop luring me back to community with the Survivor game.

I don't get nearly as much intellectual stimulation at college.

Hehe, I'm enjoying it too. Try spending 4 hours a night around drunks and then lets talk about intellectual stimulation

 

[Matt]

I was aware of groups like the FBI and Secret Service practicing that. Wasn't aware of law enforcement though.

Yep.

 

[twylight]

I'm guessing they couldn't make out if it was a child or not.

And I see your point about public service and accepting the risk, but if they are on a stake out looking for a known perp and they see a suspect with a gun who won't stop or drop the weapon...what should they do? Wait to be shot?

In this case? Yes, because it didn't say the children 'attacked' in anyway, they were passing by.

Thats the problem. Everyone is assuming that he shot this kid for the hell of it. Why is everyone assuming this cop is some sort of sociopath? You too Sloth? Did either of you stop to consider it was dark and all he could see was the silloutte of the gun?

Actually I just read another report, he shot in the leg, which makes you wonder why he took a second shot to the chest.

Overkill much?

 

[TBadora]

Thats the problem. Everyone is assuming that he shot this kid for the hell of it. Why is everyone assuming this cop is some sort of sociopath? You too Sloth? Did either of you stop to consider it was dark and all he could see was the silloutte of the gun?

No, I am not talking about this specifically. I am talking about the occurrence in general. If other cops were being punished harshly for slipping up, I'm sure this cop would have thought twice before he reached over to his belt and pulled out his gun on a child.

 

[Matt]

In this case? Yes, because it didn't say the children 'attacked' in anyway, they were passing by.

So if you are a cop and you see someone run by with a gun, you wouldn't get curious? Its not like they saw them and shot. They tried to get them to stop. And again, I seriously doubt they were aware of their age.

Actually I just read another report, he shot in the leg, which makes you wonder why he took a second shot to the chest.

Overkill much?

Again, its their training. Knee shots are gauranteed neutralization. Your issue should be with the nation's policy on training police officers, not this specific cop.

 

[Sloth7d]

Thats the problem. Everyone is assuming that he shot this kid for the hell of it. Why is everyone assuming this cop is some sort of sociopath? You too Sloth? Did either of you stop to consider it was dark and all he could see was the silloutte of the gun?

It still depends on what the gun looked like. Silloutte or not, bright colors reflect well enough to distinguish even in the dark. And some toy gun shapes are highly noticable. I also find it hard to believe that the child pointed it at him. I can't think of a reason why some random kid would do that to a cop. It sounds like a cover.

 

[Matt]

No, I am not talking about this specifically. I am talking about the occurrence in general. If other cops were being punished harshly for slipping up, I'm sure this cop would have thought twice before he reached over to his belt and pulled out his gun on a child.

What if it were the suspect and he thought twice? He would be dead and a cop killer would be on the streets of Arkansas. Training and survival instinct kick in. And again, you say he pulled his gun on a child like he saw his age, identified him as a 12 year old with a toy and shot anyway.

 

[TBadora]

Indeed it sounds like a cover to me too.

 

[Matt]

It still depends on what the gun looked like. Silloutte or not, bright colors reflect well enough to distinguish even in the dark. And some toy gun shapes are highly noticable. I also find it hard to believe that the child pointed it at him. I can't think of a reason why some random kid would do that to a cop. It sounds like a cover.

Again, it doesn't matter if they point. It takes two seconds to aim and fire a gun. Police training procedure is one step above. That means you see a gun, you shoot. Its the sad truth but it is that way to save lives (and not only the lives of officers).

And why do you assume it was bright or in a funny shape? Have you see airsoft guns? They are designed to look like barettas, smith and weston and other popular real guns.

By the way, which two are toys Sloth?

 

[Kritish]

No, I am not talking about this specifically. I am talking about the occurrence in general. If other cops were being punished harshly for slipping up, I'm sure this cop would have thought twice before he reached over to his belt and pulled out his gun on a child.

Wonderful, so a cop thinks for about shooting at the silhouettes of a short criminal with a firearm for a split second and he ends up getting killed.

 

[twylight]

So if you are a cop and you see someone run by with a gun, you wouldn't get curious? Its not like they saw them and shot. They tried to get them to stop. And again, I seriously doubt they were aware of their age.

No, but the more I read the more I question it, they were staking out a convenience store, and the child was outside of his own house, You're think that there would be some light from street lamps that would allow them to see the orange tip of the gun, or the age of a child.

They should have at least identified that, if it posed no 'immediate' threat, as in the child wasn't cming at him brandishing the weapon, he could have taken the time to be sure of those two facts.

Again, its their training. Knee shots are gauranteed neutralization. Your issue should be with the nation's policy on training police officers, not this specific cop.

It's not technically with the policy, because I agree with it, I just don't think that it warrants use on a child. *shrugs*

 

[Matt]

Indeed it sounds like a cover to me too.

When you are willing to put your ass on the line, I will take your conspiracy theory cop shot a kid for ****s and giggles B.S. more seriously.

 

[TBadora]

What if it were the suspect and he thought twice? He would be dead and a cop killer would be on the streets of Arkansas. Training and survival instinct kick in. And again, you say he pulled his gun on a child like he saw his age, identified him as a 12 year old with a toy and shot anyway.

Most people can tell it's a child when the wee a child. On the rare occasion, the cop should have warned to child to put the gun down, if the child resists, he can always shoot the child in the leg or arm to prevent a kill. A bad reflex should be punished, because in such a situation the cop could have killed anybody at the thought of a threat.