Cops on stakeout see 12-year-old kid running with a toy gun, and shoot him dead

[Matt]

No, but the more I read the more I question it, they were staking out a convenience store, and the child was outside of his own house, You're think that there would be some light from street lamps that would allow them to see the orange tip of the gun.

How many yards away were they? How much light was there? Not all guns have those tips.

It's not technically with the policy, because I agree with it, I just don't think that it warrants use on a child. *shrugs*

Were they aware it was a child though? Does it matter if the child is armed?

 

[SpiderB]

Say all you want about cops being corrupt, etc (though I know a great deal of them are), but I just don't believe that they would be so quick to shoot a little twelve year old boy, even if he appeared to have a gun. Unless he looked much older than he was, or he was intentionally trying to make them think the gun was real (like threatening them, or someone else with it).

There is definitely something more to this story.

 

[Matt]

Most people can tell it's a child when the wee a child. On the rare occasion, the cop should have warned to child to put the gun down, if the child resists, he can always shoot the child in the leg or arm to prevent a kill. A bad reflex should be punished, because in such a situation the cop could have killed anybody at the thought of a threat.

The thought of a threat? Seeing a gun isn't the thought of a threat.

And again, you do not take leg shots because

1) The leg is very difficult to hit.

2) It does not neutralize the suspect in all cases (and their arm and trigger finger continue to work fine).

And finally...I have seen 12 year olds who are 5'8 to 6 feet tall and 30 year olds who are 5'2 to 5'0 tall.

 

[Kritish]

Over in the middle east soldiers sometimes encounter school age insurgents. Are they supposed to sit there and not defend themselves?

 

[Matt]

Say all you want about cops being corrupt, etc (though I know a great deal of them are), but I just don't believe that they would be so quick to shoot a little twelve year old boy, even if he appeared to have a gun. Unless he looked much older than he was, or he was intentionally trying to make them think the gun was real (like threatening them, or someone else with it).

There is definitely something more to this story.

In my town a few months back, a couple 13 year old kids were arrested for buying airsoft guns that looked like uzis, spray painting them black and running around near a 7/11 that has a reputation for being robbed by drug junkies.

Why hasn't anyone considered that these children could've been more than innocent bystanders?

 

[twylight]

How many yards away were they? How much light was there? Not all guns have those tips.

The report says that it had a tip.

But the stupid thing is they then said 'but it had the markings of....'
Which actually made me giggle a bit it was like, 'no, der' it's a toy 'gun' of course it'll have markings like a gun.

Were they aware it was a child though? Does it matter if the child is armed?

This is true, I still think there could have been over precautions taken, before squeezing off a lethal shot.

Also, I don't want anyone to think I don't appreciate police officers work, or that they do it. I just think this situation could have been handled a bit differently.

 

[Sloth7d]

Again, it doesn't matter if they point. It takes two seconds to aim and fire a gun. Police training procedure is one step above. That means you see a gun, you shoot. Its the sad truth but it is that way to save lives (and not only the lives of officers).

And why do you assume it was bright or in a funny shape? Have you see airsoft guns? They are designed to look like barettas, smith and weston and other popular real guns.

By the way, which two are toys Sloth?

But we don't know if it looked like the well established imitators. That's why I want to know what it looked like. It seems funny there was no picture of it. Possibley because it looks well distinguishable from a real handgun.

Also, I don't know the situation, but shouldn't the cop give the kid a chance to lower the weapon? Of course this is assuming the kid didn't point it at him, which I don't think he did.

 

[TBadora]

When you are willing to put your ass on the line, I will take your conspiracy theory cop shot a kid for ****s and giggles B.S. more seriously.

Conspiracy?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSNcVjpX-9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjgzWklJ3F8

I'd love to see any of these cops to get in a scuffle with you. Then you'd be seeing it my way.

 

[Matt]

Conspiracy?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSNcVjpX-9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjgzWklJ3F8

I'd love to see any of these cops to get in a scuffle with you. Then you'd be seeing it my way.

OH NO! OUT OF CONTEXT YOUTUBE VIDEOS! You showed me! And you can't see the difference between those and a cop shooting a possible suspect with a gun drawn?

 

[Kritish]

Over in the middle east soldiers sometimes encounter school age insurgents. Are they supposed to sit there and not defend themselves?

This is still a valid defense. Especially when there's toy AK's over there.

 

[SpiderB]

In my town a few months back, a couple 13 year old kids were arrested for buying airsoft guns that looked like uzis, spray painting them black and running around near a 7/11 that has a reputation for being robbed by drug junkies.

Why hasn't anyone considered that these children could've been more than innocent bystanders?

It's certainly possible. Kind of the point I was making, in fact. The kid may not have been as innocent as the report makes it sound.

I wonder though, where are all those taser-happy cops when you need them?

 

[Matt]

But we don't know if it looked like the well established imitators. That's why I want to know what it looked like. It seems funny there was no picture of it. Possibley because it looks well distinguishable from a real handgun.

Possibly. Or it could just not be standard policy to release evidence during an on going investigation.

Also, I don't know the situation, but shouldn't the cop give the kid a chance to lower the weapon? Of course this is assuming the kid didn't point it at him, which I don't think he did.

They did. They told the kid to stop, he did not.

 

[TBadora]

OH NO! OUT OF CONTEXT YOUTUBE VIDEOS! You showed me! And you can't see the difference between those and a cop shooting a possible suspect with a gun drawn?

WEAK! You can do better than that. How do you know the cop in question wasn't like any of the cops in those videos? Out of context? Think again!

 

[Zero_Vault]

Again, it doesn't matter if they point. It takes two seconds to aim and fire a gun. Police training procedure is one step above. That means you see a gun, you shoot. Its the sad truth but it is that way to save lives (and not only the lives of officers).

And why do you assume it was bright or in a funny shape? Have you see airsoft guns? They are designed to look like barettas, smith and weston and other popular real guns.

By the way, which two are toys Sloth?

So which IS the real gun?

 

[Matt]

The report says that it had a tip.

But the stupid thing is they then said 'but it had the markings of....'
Which actually made me giggle a bit it was like, 'no, der' it's a toy 'gun' of course it'll have markings like a gun.

I was unaware of the tip. Still, how much lighting was there and what was the distance?

This is true, I still think there could have been over precautions taken, before squeezing off a lethal shot.

Also, I don't want anyone to think I don't appreciate police officers work, or that they do it. I just think this situation could have been handled a bit differently.

No one said you don't Twy. And I agree, precautions can be taken. But to me this just seems like a very tragic situation that none of us are in a position to second guess.

 

[Matt]

WEAK! You can do better than that. How do you know the cop in question wasn't like any of the cops in those videos? Out of context? Think again!

Why do you assume that all cops are like the ones in the video?

 

[Matt]

So which IS the real gun?

The bottom. The top one is a toy. The middle one is a replica.

 

[TBadora]

So which IS the real gun?

If any was a toy it be illegal anyway!

 

[TBadora]

Why do you assume that all cops are like the ones in the video?

Because I have had many close encounters with cops in the past. They are not all good. Not by a long shot. And I know for a fact that you didn't watch those videos in their entirety!

 

[Kritish]

If any was a toy it be illegal anyway!

No it wouldn't, at least in the states.

 

[Matt]

Because I have had many close encounters with cops in the past. They are not all good. Not by a long shot. And I know for a fact that you didn't watch those videos in their entirety!

I've seen them both before. And "bad cops" are a small minority.

 

[Sloth7d]

Conspiracy?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSNcVjpX-9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjgzWklJ3F8

I'd love to see any of these cops to get in a scuffle with you. Then you'd be seeing it my way.

Let's not forget this--

http://www.courttv.com/news/2003/0411/tulia_10questions_ctv.html

and the Rodney King incident.

 

[TBadora]

I've seen them both before. And "bad cops" are a small minority.

And how do you know the cop is question isn't one of them? You seem to be quick to defend, why aren't you analyzing it thoroughly?

 

[twylight]

I was unaware of the tip. Still, how much lighting was there and what was the distance?

I concede that point

No one said you don't Twy. And I agree, precautions can be taken. But to me this just seems like a very tragic situation that none of us are in a position to second guess.

Oh, I know no one said it, but if the thread went into a Police Bashing fest I'd feel responsible for it. Also I like to cover my rear. It's something I've learned being on these forums.

 

[Zero_Vault]

And let's not forget the unarmed hispanic man, who was in the Army reserve, getting shot point blank range in the face and chest area, but a thundering obese black man.