Could X3 Be Wolverine's "Last Stand"?

[BMM]

well technically we still don't know if its the actual first class, or if its young/new mutants.

We do now.


Thanks to Electrix in the First Class thread.

LAUREN SHULER DONNER TALKS X-MEN: FIRST CLASS

Lauren Shuler Donner, who produced all three X-Men movies and the upcoming X-Men Origins: Wolverine, said she hopes to make a franchise out of X-Men: First Class.

"It is the first class of Xavier's school, way back when, so it's young Scott, young Jean, young Beast and that'll be really fun," Donner said. "I think (the plan) is to follow some of the characters into their own stories, and weave them back into the X-Men world.

"And hopefully First Class will become its own franchise and we can follow them as they grow up."

Donner made the comments on Fox Movie Channel's Life after Film School. She also acknowledged that a Magneto movie remains in development.

The entire interview -- in which the producer talks about the new Wolverine film -- will be repeated Friday at 1 a.m. and 7:30 p.m.; Sunday at 7:30 p.m. and midnight; Monday at 3:30 p.m. and 10 p.m.; Tuesday, April 21 at 9:30 p.m.; Thursday, April 23 at 7:30 p.m.; and Wednesday, Apriil 29 at 7:30 p.m.

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...4/14/index.htm

 

[spideyboy_1111]

We do now.


Thanks to Electrix in the First Class thread.



http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...4/14/index.htm

nice lets hope the full team is

-jean
-scott
-beast
-storm
-banshee

 

[BMM]

There are a lot of possibilities. Personally, I'm just interested to see what it will be like to have an X-Men movie without Wolverine.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

There are a lot of possibilities. Personally, I'm just interested to see what it will be like to have an X-Men movie without Wolverine.

me too

banshee just better be the 5th lol, i dont want quicksilver, or emma showing up as a student.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

nice lets hope the full team is

-jean
-scott
-beast
-storm
-banshee

I think the first team needs to be:

-Cyclops
-Jean Grey
-Storm
-Beast
-Emma Frost

Gambit could be included in that in some way. There's also openings for characters like Banshee (like you mentioned), perhaps expanding on Jason Stryker, since First Class would probably include Magneto, you could throw in Quiksilver and Scarlet Witch. Havok could fit in with that. I've also even thought of a good way that you could include Psylocke, to make up for what happens to her in X-Men 3.

Those 5 that I mentioned though I feel absolutely NEED to be in the film.

But with Donner confirming that First Class is indeed a prequel, revolving around the original team, I am now looking forward to it.

I'm not looking forward to a Young X-Men following the events of X-Men 3 and revolving around Iceman, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus, but a prequel of the original team, I am.

Give me a 2 1/2 runtime and I will give you a BAD ASS First Class movie that will even fix some of the mistakes made by X-Men 3

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

As thrilling a prospect as X-Men Origins: First Class might be, let's try to not get off topic fellas and girls. Thanks.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think the first team needs to be:

-Cyclops
-Jean Grey
-Storm
-Beast
-Emma Frost

Gambit could be included in that in some way. There's also openings for characters like Banshee (like you mentioned), perhaps expanding on Jason Stryker, since First Class would probably include Magneto, you could throw in Quiksilver and Scarlet Witch. Havok could fit in with that. I've also even thought of a good way that you could include Psylocke, to make up for what happens to her in X-Men 3.

Those 5 that I mentioned though I feel absolutely NEED to be in the film.

But with Donner confirming that First Class is indeed a prequel, revolving around the original team, I am now looking forward to it.

I'm not looking forward to a Young X-Men following the events of X-Men 3 and revolving around Iceman, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus, but a prequel of the original team, I am.

Give me a 2 1/2 runtime and I will give you a BAD ASS First Class movie that will even fix some of the mistakes made by X-Men 3

That's too many girls though..... plus i'd rather see emma not go to the xavier institute so she can go down a darker path... id rather he join the hellfire club, or something like it.

i also would rather gambit not show up. It'd be awkward.... alot of us want to see him with rogue some how. Plus character wise, i don't see him meshing well with the originals.

yes a new and young brotherhood would work too, but i still think overall there needs to be more then a repeat of X1... they should take them to other sceneries.. savage land? genosha? muir island? etc...

personally for characters like emma, psylocke, and gambit, id rather see join an X-team post X3.... Infact on top of an X-men Origins: First Class film, i'd also like a "new mutants" or "young X-men film" that focused on new students joining the school post X3... could also deal with emma and her hellions.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

sorry LS, i didnt see ur post till after i posted.

anywho back on topic.

i still think the X3 distaste is far greater online then off.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That's too many girls though..... plus i'd rather see emma not go to the xavier institute so she can go down a darker path... id rather he join the hellfire club, or something like it.

i also would rather gambit not show up. It'd be awkward.... alot of us want to see him with rogue some how. Plus character wise, i don't see him meshing well with the originals.

yes a new and young brotherhood would work too, but i still think overall there needs to be more then a repeat of X1... they should take them to other sceneries.. savage land? genosha? muir island? etc...

personally for characters like emma, psylocke, and gambit, id rather see join an X-team post X3.... Infact on top of an X-men Origins: First Class film, i'd also like a "new mutants" or "young X-men film" that focused on new students joining the school post X3... could also deal with emma and her hellions.

I'm gonna make my rounds here in the Origins forum, then I'm gonna take this conversation to the "X-Men Sequels" forum. I'd like to continue this discussion.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

We will be there to contribute Nell.

 

[kedrell]

1)Yes, by the general public it will absolutely be seen as a sequel to X3. TIH and BB had a hard enough time distancing themselves from their predecessors even with a 100% new cast. This one still has the same guy playing Wolverine.

2)Yes X3's reception will have an impact. How much is debatable, but I definitely see less $ at the box office than X3 made. Probably less than X2.

1) thats wishful thinking

and

2) Marvel also needs to realize they can't burn there candle at both ends. They need to produce several mini comic films.. my god, if they actually expect half that list to be summer block busters there crazy. They really need to base there film expectations on there comic sales. X-men and Spider-man clearly are the flag ship sellers... probably followed by Ironman, Hulk, Avengers/Captain America, and Thor.

These comics/franchises will always be marvels biggest. They really can't expect for Luke Cage, Hawkeye or Black Panther to end up being the next "blade franchise" Blade was a complete fluke. He was also nearly out of the picture at the time in comics, so it didn't have fanboys complaining about it's inaccuracies. So i really hope marvel decides to utilize this and make movies like these (and even runaways) as possible Fall/Winter/or Spring releases. Many can even be made on a relatively low budget. And if they become block busters? Then awesome, but they can't expect them to. And buy making them all summer films they are doing just that.

This also means they need to spread out there money makers... before they wear thin. People one day will be sick of X-men, Sick of Spider-man (if they arn't sick of both already), Sick of Ironman, Sick of Hulk, Sick of the Avengers. So whats left? all those films i mentioned... and none of those are flag ship characters.

So if marvel did ever get X-men's rights back, i personally see it as a poor business choice to immediately hop on it and spit more movies out. Off bits like "cable" or "X-factor", or "New Mutants" etc... yes.. but an X-men TEAM film no. Not for a long time.

Marvel right now is still just introducing the general public to their properties via movies. Just like in the early 1960's when they did so in comics. It's a longer period because movies take quite a bit longer to make than monthly comics do. Now, once they have done that(they could still have another decade left in that process), then the next logical step would be movies that are simply crossover events with no single hero/group hogging the spotlight. You might eventually see single character/team movies go the way of the dodo. But that's a long, long way off. Marvel wants to stay in business indefinitely, just like any other company. I really think their ultimate goal(decades down the road) is to be a super success like Disney.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

1)Yes, by the general public it will absolutely be seen as a sequel to X3. TIH and BB had a hard enough time distancing themselves from their predecessors even with a 100% new cast. This one still has the same guy playing Wolverine.

2)Yes X3's reception will have an impact. How much is debatable, but I definitely see less $ at the box office than X3 made. Probably less than X2.



Marvel right now is still just introducing the general public to their properties via movies. Just like in the early 1960's when they did so in comics. It's a longer period because movies take quite a bit longer to make than monthly comics do. Now, once they have done that(they could still have another decade left in that process), then the next logical step would be movies that are simply crossover events with no single hero/group hogging the spotlight. You might eventually see single character/team movies go the way of the dodo. But that's a long, long way off. Marvel wants to stay in business indefinitely, just like any other company. I really think their ultimate goal(decades down the road) is to be a super success like Disney.

personally i think batman came out at a great time, people wanted a good batman movie. I didn't think it had a hard time fighting the past stigma at all... sure it needed the time, but once it was made I think the general audience at least expected it from the trailers alone to be better then the past films. So i won't exactly say it had to fight much of a stigma, once it was out. Incredible Hulk had to fight much more of a stigma, considering there was only a few years apart from it's past train wreck.

The only problem with that plan you say marvel is doing, is that people are going to easily get stuck on certain cast members making certain character roles... and it's going to be extremely hard for people to see other actors take up the mantle. Marvel has this notion that most of there movies will end up being the next "james bond" being able to rotate the cast.... but i really don't see that happening as easily.

 

[kedrell]

personally i think batman came out at a great time, people wanted a good batman movie. I didn't think it had a hard time fighting the past stigma at all... sure it needed the time, but once it was made I think the general audience at least expected it from the trailers alone to be better then the past films. So i won't exactly say it had to fight much of a stigma, once it was out. Incredible Hulk had to fight much more of a stigma, considering there was only a few years apart from it's past train wreck.

I'd say the difference in years(5 for Hulk and 8 for Batman) was pretty minor.

The only problem with that plan you say marvel is doing, is that people are going to easily get stuck on certain cast members making certain character roles... and it's going to be extremely hard for people to see other actors take up the mantle. Marvel has this notion that most of there movies will end up being the next "james bond" being able to rotate the cast.... but i really don't see that happening as easily.

Maybe but I don't think so. Marvel clearly thinks the characters/properties themselves are the draw more so than whoever the cast happens to be at the time. Sure they want to be very careful not to flub the casting but just about every one of these characters is going to out-last any single take on them by an actor or a director. I think the emotional attachment audiences have to an actor playing a particular character is often over-estimated.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'd say the difference in years(5 for Hulk and 8 for Batman) was pretty minor.

well i'm just saying, i heard litterally no one EVER say "i dont want to see batman begins, the last batman movies were horrible" they said that about Incredible Hulk, so yes, the time made a big big difference).

people also didn't compare batman begins to batman and robin. People compared Hulk to Incrdible Hulk because they were VERY fresh in peoples minds still. Batman and Robin was not.

Maybe but I don't think so. Marvel clearly thinks the characters/properties themselves are the draw more so than whoever the cast happens to be at the time. Sure they want to be very careful not to flub the casting but just about every one of these characters is going to out-last any single take on them by an actor or a director. I think the emotional attachment audiences have to an actor playing a particular character is often over-estimated.

It's a mix of both, High profile flag ship characters sell the tickets, but low profile characters, like dr. strange and luke cage, need an actor to help sell tickets. Some characters are clearly not epic summer block buster money makers. Blade was a fluke, and if marvel acts like or expects every minor property to pull a blade, then they may end up hurting themselves.

 

[Darthkush]

well i'm just saying, i heard litterally no one EVER say "i dont want to see batman begins, the last batman movies were horrible"

I heard people say that. I remember when Begins was about to hit, I tried to talk my non comic loving friends into it and NOBODY cared. Batman and Robin was evoked constantly(as was Catwoman on occasion). The film was out a full month before my skeptical family/friends were willing to go see it. Most were pleasantly surprised.

I think Wolverine is going to face the same thing. Like others on this board, I know many non-fanboys who thought X3 was medicore in comparison to the first 2 films. Now, I know it's not a Batman and Robin level of disrespect but to say the x-men franchise is untarnished, is unrealistic. Honestly, if everyone you know LOVED X-men 3, you have to ask yourself how discerning an filmgoer they are. Are they really into movies/films? Or are they just looking for a good time at the movies every time they go? Have they ever watched a non summer box office type flick and really loved it? More than once? I'm not saying that it's bad if all the people you know are just popcorn movie lovers but it does play a factor here.

On the opposite end, if everybody you know(which is my case) thought X3 kind of sucked, you have to ask the opposite questions. I tend to surround myself with more artsy fartsy filmgoers so they were much more putoff by X3 than some others were.

Other points I want to briefly touch upon...

-As stated earlier, the X-men films don't have huge legs. I think for a lot of the general public, x-men has a very unfamiliar, nerdier stigma to it than Spider-man or Batman. Despite X-men being around since the early 60's, I think most will agree that it didn't become popular outside of comic fans, until the early 90's and the fans that were around for that are only about 30 or so at the oldest. So for moviegoers older than about 35(with some obvious exceptions), X-men is just some weird, nerdy sci-fi thing that they don't know anything about and are not sure they want to know about. I once met an administrator when I was in college who told me she hates her husband's x-men and matrix movies. I eventually kind of debated with her until I got her to reluctantly admit that she hates them not because of their quality but because she doesn't understand them and is unfamiliar(in x-men's case) with the franchise's existance in the first place.

-X3 WILL hurt Wolverine. Realistcally, I don't think Wolverine can open higher than 80 million. While that is a good opening, it's unspectacular when you consider that if X3 had been more positively received, Wolverine would be guaranteed 100 million plus opening but the negativey of the last movie hurts it's opening chances. I lliked X3 and i'm a huge x-men fan but like others, I can't get over a handful of choices X3 made. In fact, if they had just left Cyclops alive, I'd be a lot happier with the film in general. General filmgoers don't care as much about the Cyclops thing but they still recognize it wasn't as good as X2.

-The star Trek factor. I've made no secret on these forums that I still think Star Trek is a tough sell to the non-nerd set and although I think that's changing, it's STILL going to hurt Wolverine despite all of this. In fact, Wolverine's second week is looking worse and worse. No matter what, Star Trek will dethrone it the second week but how bad of a drop for Wolverine will there be? To me, Star Trek=Watchmen in many ways. Trek is more well known obviously and has some fans outside of it's fanbase but its' still a fair comparison. Is there anything with a nerdier stigma than Star Trek? I still think no matter how action packed it looks, there will be many who just won't go watch a star trek film. IF that happens and that film opens under 50(or eve 40 million), Wolverine will only beneift. If it's as good as it looks and enough people go, Trek will probably open to 60 million plus. I think Trek's success key will be about legs.

-Finally there's the fanboy review factor. Raise your hand if your non-nerd friends/co-workers take your opinion of an comic book film more seriously than they probably should?(raises own hand). If an comic book flick comes out and i'm NOT superhyped after seeing it, I know folks who will wait for dvd or just won't watch it all. On the other hand, if I love it, they'll be much more apt go watch it(not saying they DEFINITELY WILL as people still mostly go on their own interests) but my influence can make or break on occasion. I'm sure there are others here who are their group's nerd guru and people care what you think about these kind of flicks. When I saw Watchmen, EVERYBODY I knew wanted to know what I thought of it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

i dunno kush, i am definitely the nerd amongst my group, at least when it comes to comic movies, and the people i know still just watch what they wanna watch. my view of x men doesnt really influence them. we all just have our own interests. my best friend doesnt really care for x men period. hes not big on the concept. only way hed see this in theatres is if he went with me, and since he lives in boston and im in nashville, that wont be happening. i dunno, people i know just like what they like and dont look towards to each other for opinions. i mean, ill show him x men movies, just like hell show me mst3000 stuff, but thats about it. also, most of us (myself and my friends) arent artsy fartsy or popcorn viewers, we are happy mediums. like most things in life, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle. we want a happy balance between fun and depth. trust me, in some peoples definitions of art, comic books and their movies would never qualify. a lot of it is just a bunch of arrogant self righteousness (not you by any means, kush). we want to have fun in the movie, but we also want a meaningful plot. it doesnt have to be requiem for a dream, but it shouldnt be charlies angels either. most people i know are like that which is why most people ive encountered like the x films, including x men 3. outside of this board i have heard more good than bad, and the only bads have come from people with knowledge of the characters who cant get past cyclops or psylocke. in my own experiences, x3 has no stigma or notoriety outside of this place. that said, wolvie wont be the box office winner this summer. tf will take that. x men, while i havent noticed a negative stigma attatched to it, i dont think the general audience really cares beyond seeing a good summer movie.

 

[night0205]

Jean, Emma, Cyclops, Beast, & Storm...yeah i could see that. I would like to see Psylocke play a good role. I really don't know how Gambit is going to fit into things...after this.... (first class)

What i'm looking forward to if they do more wolverine is Omega Red, Lady Deathstrike (background and actual character)

 

[Project862006]

sorry i cant get excited about the first class 1 it is fox and 2. the script writer is the guy who writes the o.c. and gossip girl lol

 

[night0205]

And peter jackson was the hack who made dead alive...but you gotta point

 

[spideyboy_1111]

sorry i cant get excited about the first class 1 it is fox and 2. the script writer is the guy who writes the o.c. and gossip girl lol

to be fair, those are extremely high rated shows... so whether you've never watched or liked either one, the guy obviously has talent.

 

[Project862006]

so you want first class to be the oc with superpowers?

 

[night0205]

i've never seen them...so i can't really judge.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

so you want first class to be the oc with superpowers?

Have you ever watched the OC? It wasn't like the average "WB/CW" (it was on fox btw) but it actually had pretty clever writing, it got well reviews, and many people i know who've never been into teen dramas actually loved it.

 

[xwolverine2]

last i checked audiences loved x3...

its the rabid fans that didnt.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

last i checked audiences loved x3...

its the rabid fans that didnt.

This.

Obviously, there will be general audience people who didn't like it, just like there are rabid fanboys that loved it.

But the negative stigma surrounding X-Men 3 is strictly a fanboy thing.