Countdown Boycott

[Kitsune]

Mary Marvel's story is like Dark Phoenix only rewritten for modern times

So true, like remaking Psycho for modern times, a sure hit.

 

[Aristotle]

Since it was "Twilight Zone time" (cue for sarcasm), you should've just assumed whatever I was saying I meant the opposite. Of course I don't think Mary Marvel's story is as good as the Dark Phoenix saga... And while I don't think Sinestro Corps special was perfectly logical, making mountains out mole hills like that was meant to be silly because the story was good.

Oh, the WHOLE THING was sarcasm...like it was Bizarro DoomJester...oh...wow...OK.

 

[Aristotle]

Piper and Trickster are moving through the major events of the DCU like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern from Hamlet. It's not that they are moving foward, so much as through.

I can accept that interpretation as well.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern pwn.

 

[Aristotle]

The stories sucked to you and me.

Also to me.

 

[Vic Von Doom]

I don't think 52 moved slowly at all...22 issues in, Ralph Dibny's story had taken several twists and turns, from Wicker Sue to beginning his Magical Mystery Tour of the DCU with Nabu. John Henry Irons' skin turned to Steel, Luthor founded Infinity Inc., Natasha became the leader...Booster Gold faked being a great hero, was exposed, then "killed" ...

And has ANYTHING in Countdown come close to the "Skeets is evil" reveal? I say thee nay. And then there was Adam Strange and the space heroes, Lobo...if anything, 52 had too much going on, the book really wasn't big enough for all the story it had going on. I haven't even mentioned Black Adam's arc...he was already married by now, and just about to find Isis's brother and make him Osiris...that was issue 23 or 24 I think.

There is no comparison. The two biggest problems with Countdown as opposed to 52 are, IMO, these:

​

Geoff Johns Adam Beechen​

Grant Morrison Palmiotti/Gray
Mark Waid Sean McKeever
Greg Rucka Tony Bedard

I don't think I need to tell you the difference between the names on the left and the names on the right. I didn't put Paul Dini on there, but I really wonder just how much of this is him. He is obviously not writing the comic every week...I feel like he has a basic idea of what happens in each issue and then the writers actually write it. The other problem is this...

We now know most of who wrote what in 52. Johns wrote most of Black Adam's arc...he has written JSA, in which Adam was a main character, for a long time...Teth-Adam is obviously close to Johns.

Rucka did most of the Question/Montoya story. Gotham Central focused on Montoya, a book he created.

Grant Morrison did most of the space stuff. Animal Man is obviously a character near and dear to Morrison...

Do you see a pattern? For the most part, the writers doing 52 tended to write characters they had a clear passion for, and/or a history with. Does Adam Beechen have a deep love for Jimmy Olsen? Did Tony Bedard jump at the chance to write Mary Marvel and Eclipso? I doubt it. So there is my general theory as to why Countdown blows...far inferior talent writing characters they could give a damn about. And if they don't...we don't.

How many characters from 52 did you fall in love with over the course of that series, or remember how much you loved? Black Adam, Magnus and the Metal Men, Egg-Fu (you know he was cool) , Skeets...the list is endless.

 

[SouLeSS]

I think the biggest thing that Countdown lacks is characters peopel care about.

Who the hell cares about Karate Kid, or Piper/Trickster, or Mary Marvel, and the multiverse group? I mean, at least in 52 there was some good stories like Lex Luthor being evil to the max, Steel doing his thing with Natasha, Ralph going to hell and back to get with Sue, so on and so forth.

 

[BrianWilly]

I care about Mary Marvel. She's one of my favorite characters, ever since her road trip with Linda Danvers years ago and subsequent appearance in Super Buddies. And I'm pretty certain everyone here cares about the multiverse group to some extent. Jason Todd is a heavy feature of the Batman 'verse, Donna Troy for the Titans readers, and Kyle Rayner for anyone with good taste. Lack of readable characters is not an excuse here; if anything, Countdown has featured more A-listers than the relatively C-list cast of 52.

To compare the progression of Countdown to 52 is, once again I use the word, laughable. What week are we in Countdown now? Week twenty or so? By twenty weeks of 52, Black Adam had become involved in world politics, set his own stance alongside China and other powers, met Adrianna the slave girl, fell in love with her, gave her Isis powers via Billy, gotten married, and set out to change the world for the better; by the end of October last year he would have found Osiris and renounced his ties with other world superpowers.

By week twenty, Booster Gold has set himself up as a hero, found Skeet's time glitches, saw Hunter's chalk board, paid off some guy to pose as a villain, got exposed by that guy, fell into destitution, got confronted about it by Ralph and Lois, met Supernova and faked his own death, after which Skeets tricked Daniel Hall into an eternal time loop.

And that's just two out of an ensemble of at least a half dozen main characters; we haven't even touched Renee or Ralph or John Irons' stories, much less Will Magnus or the space trio's. Two characters have had storyline developments at least at the equal of the entirety of Countdown's cast, if not more. Again, laughable. If Countdown is horrible enough on its own merits, it comes off even worse when placed alongside 52. We knew this right from the outset.

 

[Darthphere]

Eh not really. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, we have the luxury of something to make a comparison of, but if you go back and read the comments on 52 for the first 20-30 issues or so, you'll see a lot of complaints about nothing really happening and it moving too slow.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

People complained about the pacing, but they were generally okay with the art (other than Eddy Barrows') and writing. Countdown's just bad across the board at this point.

 

[Vic Von Doom]

I think the biggest thing that Countdown lacks is characters peopel care about.

Who the hell cares about Karate Kid, or Piper/Trickster, or Mary Marvel, and the multiverse group? I mean, at least in 52 there was some good stories like Lex Luthor being evil to the max, Steel doing his thing with Natasha, Ralph going to hell and back to get with Sue, so on and so forth.

I don't think that's the problem at all, but you nailed it on the head. Who the hell cares about Karate Kid, Piper/Trickster or Mary Marvel? WE SHOULD. Capable writers would make us care about them.

Remember when 52 started, and the main cast was announced as "Booster Gold, Steel, The Question, Renee Montoya, Black Adam, Ralph Dibny"

Who the hell cares about them? Many people, I know...now. Don't get me wrong, there are fan fave characters in there, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who were Elongated Man fans even before Identity Crisis (hello...anybody?) but the point is those aren't exactly A-list names.

And that was the point. Karate Kid and the Pied Piper aren't inherently bad characters, far from it. I LOVED Karate Kid in Waid's LOSH and Piper/Trickster in Johns's Flash. Why couldn't those guys write a weekly comic? Oh, wait...

 

[SouLeSS]

Another thing I noticed when reading through 29 today, was that they try to put every character group in every issue. One of the reasons 52 did better with the pacing is that every issue didn't have 3 or 4 pages dedicated to each character group. Some of the issues were like 80% trio in space, or 70% Steel/Infinity Inc.

It seems that Countdown is trying to force every story to move in every issue, which looks good on paper, but fails in practice.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, they've had issues where some characters don't appear. Trickster and Piper were missing from a few issues and Karate Kid and Una just reappeared in #30 after a 4- or 5-issue absence.

 

[DoomJester]

Both of you, Souless, and Corpulent1 are right. But Souless is a bit more right. It seems Countdown more or less tries to give everyone some time in the issue, although the Jason Todd earth hopping is clearly the main bit, they tried to balance it all out. Of course, they failed at it a month in and we had issues like Corpulent mentioned, where people just don't show up. Like last Countdown, with no Mary Marvel, but no she is back with like 4 pages. Yay. No.

 

[Son_of_W]

hehe... does anyone even remember why this thread was created?

Anyways, having only read up to about week 25 of 52 (I'm poor and cheap leave me alone while I try to catch up), I must say I really like the characters, especially considering how they were all virtually unknown to me before that. Yes I knew them all, but they were always secondary and unimportant to me. I've also not read alot of issues where Lex Luthor is the main villain (I don't read that much DC, sorry, but I'm getting into it) and so far I'm very impressed with how well everything flows. Heck, at some points, Ralph's story seems to be progressing without me. Like jumps in time I thought I should have noticed. I just borrowed an Adam Strange volume to get more famaliar with the character. This was obviously the work of good writers, writers who make you want to have more. In general, I think art can be ignored, and you could probably place most of the blame at a writer's feet. Art's secondary (unless it looks worse than a cow's backside), so again I'll say, writer's are to blame.

Having not read any of Countdown, I should probably keep my mouth shut. But between my Uncle refusing to even talk about, and another one of my friend's just groaning everytime i mention it, and then the general reaction of people on this thread, and what I'm hearing from people on the thread, this is just plain, old, standard bad writing. And bad judgement by the Editor.

 

[DoomJester]

I liked 52. 52 had some tedious weeks. Near the end the writers became reluctant to pack too much into the book so they took the Countdown route and sprinkled the stories in, whereas earlier you go through issues that are largely Montoya/Question issues or largely space issues (Lobo, oh yeah!).

My feeling is this-- if you enjoy a book or something, enjoy it. Don't let someone convince you that it is bad. Perhaps there are better books, but if you are happy with the way you have spent your comic money then more power to you.

 

[BrianWilly]

Eh not really. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, we have the luxury of something to make a comparison of, but if you go back and read the comments on 52 for the first 20-30 issues or so, you'll see a lot of complaints about nothing really happening and it moving too slow.

More like we didn't know how good we had it with 52 until we got stuck with something a whole lot worse.

And when I say "we," mostly I mean "everyone else" 'cause I don't remember whining too much about 52's pacing. A little. Not a lot.

 

[Manic]

I'm fairly certain I didn't complain about 52's pacing. That comic didn't disappoint me until week 6, where Black Adam forge's his alliance with China. But damned if I didn't fall in love with the Great 10, or their incredibly long, translated-sounding names (Accomplished Perfect Physician is the best codename ever, I tells ya).

 

[Ion Kenshin]

against my better judgement i pick up this comic on a weekly basis and never seem to be satisfied. its been said time and again on this board, i know, yet we cant stop pointing out all the shortcomings of this book. I guess at this point its become the whole " i've read this far into the series i might as well see how it ends" kind of deal which doesn't make things better seeing as it helps to boost sales thus making DC think that its doing well and people want to read it. However if the higher ups think this is great storytelling they are sorely mistaken. What happens in this issue...basically same old $h!t different week.

Spoilers to follow. I don't want to ruin the story for anyone even though i think its already ruined itself!

Our happy little multiverse hoppers jump to another universe get captured, break free, throw out some banter and leave. Is it me or shouldn't the monitor aka Bob, (so stupid), at this point be able to transport our heroes into a multiverse planet and not place them right smack in the middle of people that are going to attack them. I'd rather see them meet up and fight with no one at this point just to break up the monotony.

I dont presume to know anything about holly robinson or how she fits into the DC mythos(someone please feel free to pass me some info), but honestly what was the point this issue? was it really worth the ink to have two pages of her escaping shark infested (or whatever those creatures were) water and seeing harley emeger with the head of one on a spear. Why? thats all i want to know.

As for karate kid an una im not even gonna bother trying to deal with their plot.

Piper and trickster run away, meet another villain, get targeted for attack, rinse... wash... repeat... yawn

Next up our friendly neighborhood Jimmy Olsen.....he ended up somewhere new and different, met some people who know he has powers and wants to help him figure out whats going......Where have i read this before?.......What's that you say every other issue before it? I knew something felt repetitive.

And lastly....anyone remember that guy Darkseid, i could have sworn he was part of this story in the beginning with some big plan in the works? Must have been my imagination.

Honestly the only amusement I got from this issue was

Spoiler

when jokester got shot and threw out the rosebud line

and thats it ...kinda sad really.
:gl:

 

[Ion Kenshin]

Just read the new countdown on my lunch break and its been pretty much the same old jazz. The only satisfaction i got was that the jimmy olsen story might actually be headed in some direction.....and watch out there is another gay joke.....except this time by piper himself ...hope no one is gonna get upset or enraged by it again cause i think its really a non issue.
:gl:

 

[DoomJester]

Lol at Countdown. I read some of the issue in the store. You know I'm all about the Mary Marvel storyline but my boys, mah brahs, at DC did me a favor. The previews included the entire Mary Marvel story for this issue so I didn't have to trudge through all the other stuff. (Thanks!). I flipped through, there was some fighting but Mighty Avengers had more than enough fighting for me so I didn't buy it. I don't feel bad at all.

I'll tell you what I felt bad about. I held Absolute Sandman 2 in my hands and didn't buy it-- I feel bad about that. I could've gotten it, but I'm taking my first trip to NY City so I'll just wait till I get back to (hopefully) sunny South Florida.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Ahhhh NYC. What a craphole.

 

[DoomJester]

Oh no! Well I'm not a huge fan of big cities, but one of my best friends recently moved there so I'm gonna go and see him, do some shopping.

 

[Ion Kenshin]

^^^^you should hit up midtown comics its a pretty banging shop

 

[DoomJester]

Oh yeah! They get all those variant editions. Yeah I'm gonna do that.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Don't mind me...I hate NYC. And Chicago. And LA. Cleveland ain't all that grand either.