David Goyer hired to write Man of Steel

[Superwoman Prime]

Did you read what I found about it?

 

[SuperMike335!!]

That pic looks an awful lot like this :

 

[Kurosawa]

I've researched Superman #22 (never read it). It's important to know that Zod, Quex-Ul, and Zaora exterminated the entire human population of earth in a pocket universe; so obviously there weren't any officials around to see that justice was done.



And the Phantom Zone wasn't exactly available to him at that time. Afterward he is very disturbed by what he had to do.

One of the main reasons Superman and Batman are so averted to killing is that it isn't their job. They hold life sacred while realizing that in most cases their only job is to apprehend these criminals. Well, in this specific situation, it fell on Superman's shoulders, and it was the only option.

I own that issue. It's disgusting. Years later that same (supposedly) Superman was daring to condemn WW for killing Max Lord...total hypocrite. The PZ villains were on another Earth, a dead world, and had their powers removed permanently by Gold K. They were neutralized. It was Byrne's last issue and was done for shock value. The current Superman in DC comics never did this. On New Earth, this story never happened. No responsible editor would have ever let that crap see print. To me that issue is the final word on why Byrne's version was just wrongheaded and a mistake.

What Goyer needs to take from Byrne and what I expect him to take is superior action and fight scenes. Byrne did that well. I don't expect much else and I hope for as little Byrne influence as possible. Hopefully Geoff Johns will have a good say in how this script turns out, minus the Donner influences which they just have GOT to stay away from.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i am sure they will probably not adapt that story, since one of supes morals is no killing. Which is something they will probably have in movie. Well i agree they will probably take the more action, and making clark a more real person too like bryne did as folks said. As for other things i dont know every little detail from bryne's run. So they will probably take some other stuff too. Then look at other takes as i hope and find the right balance in old and new stuff and have a fresh new approach to it.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I own that issue. It's disgusting. Years later that same (supposedly) Superman was daring to condemn WW for killing Max Lord...total hypocrite.

What made it really wrong was that in the time and place WW did that there was a justice system by which to subject Max Lord. She took the ultimate form of justice into her own hands when that wasn't her job. The Justice League isn't there to rule over humanity, its there to bring the scum of humanity to order. Where mankind isn't able to take care of itself, that's where superheroes come in to pick up the slack. They are there only to assist in the initial stages of the justice system that they themselves willfully answer to.

On that dead earth mankind was gone.

 

[Willi Berg]

What made it really wrong was that in the time and place WW did that there was a justice system by which to subject Max Lord. She took the ultimate form of justice into her own hands when that wasn't her job. The Justice League isn't there to rule over humanity, its there to bring the scum of humanity to order. Where mankind isn't able to take care of itself, that's where superheroes come in to pick up the slack. They are there only to assist in the initial stages of the justice system that they themselves willfully answer to.

On that dead earth mankind was gone.

But wasn't it impossible to stop Superman unless WW killed Maxwell Lord? Arresting Maxwell would not stop his mind control.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

It's been a long time since I've read that. I do remember when WW went to speak with Bruce Wayne about it his only response was a grim "Get out." So he apparently thought there was some sort of other alternative. Everyone but WW acted as if the decision was premature, so I think she arrived at their last resort of killing way too early.

That's my general recollection. I'm admittedly missing details.

 

[SpiderByte]

What made it really wrong was that in the time and place WW did that there was a justice system by which to subject Max Lord. She took the ultimate form of justice into her own hands when that wasn't her job. The Justice League isn't there to rule over humanity, its there to bring the scum of humanity to order. Where mankind isn't able to take care of itself, that's where superheroes come in to pick up the slack. They are there only to assist in the initial stages of the justice system that they themselves willfully answer to.

On that dead earth mankind was gone.

That INSTANTLY reminds me of the Justice Lords from the Justice League animated show.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Yep. That was a good episode to put the Justice League into perspective and help to understand their role. What they are and what they should never become (Justice Lords).

 

[SuperMike335!!]

The PZ villains were on another Earth, a dead world, and had their powers removed permanently by Gold K. They were neutralized. It was Byrne's last issue and was done for shock value.

Wait up a sec, I don't have that issue!

So he killed them after they had their powers removed!? That is cold.

I mean, maybe he thought there is a cure to gold K they could eventually get their hands on, but at that point it should heve been easy enough to put them in some sort of prison.

The other thing is, why would Green K still work on them after being exposed to gold K?

I thought it was a packaged deal.

Just like Bombardment from red solar rays disrupts the use of their powers (not sure how that works, maybe blocks access to stored energy?) then Green K is no different to them than a human.

 

[SrsBsns]

Damn, I've hardly read much of Byrne's work but what y'all are talking about sounds really interesting...Could someone sum up this story lol

 

[Kurosawa]

What made it really wrong was that in the time and place WW did that there was a justice system by which to subject Max Lord. She took the ultimate form of justice into her own hands when that wasn't her job. The Justice League isn't there to rule over humanity, its there to bring the scum of humanity to order. Where mankind isn't able to take care of itself, that's where superheroes come in to pick up the slack. They are there only to assist in the initial stages of the justice system that they themselves willfully answer to.

On that dead earth mankind was gone.

Justice had been done to the PZ villains as well, Gold K is irreversible and it is passed on to any offspring as well (Moore messed up on this in "Whatever Happened", if Superman truly did expose himself to Gold K in that story), and long enough exposure to it can cause amnesia as well.

Wait up a sec, I don't have that issue!

So he killed them after they had their powers removed!? That is cold.

I mean, maybe he thought there is a cure to gold K they could eventually get their hands on, but at that point it should heve been easy enough to put them in some sort of prison.

The other thing is, why would Green K still work on them after being exposed to gold K?

I thought it was a packaged deal.

Just like Bombardment from red solar rays disrupts the use of their powers (not sure how that works, maybe blocks access to stored energy?) then Green K is no different to them than a human.

Green K doesn't harm non superpowered Kryptonians. So yea, it shouldn't have worked. Byrne doesn't know jack about what he was writing about, or just ignored it because he wanted to leave the title by making Superman a killer.

 

[Kurosawa]

Damn, I've hardly read much of Byrne's work but what y'all are talking about sounds really interesting...Could someone sum up this story lol

The Pocket Universe story is only interesting if you like the idea of everything Superman means and stands for being crapped upon by an overrated hack. It's a stupid story and an idiotic deathfest AND it makes no sense. No responsible editor would have ever let it see print. The one nice side effect of it is that I think it led to Byrne's version being retconned away 20 years later, and that is a good thing.

 

[SrsBsns]

I see...

From what I've read about Byrne's work, I do like that his Superman is pretty powered down

 

[BH/HHH]

Byrnes Superman at least at the start was awesome. Man of Steel was a great series.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I thought it was kind of generic. Nothing to complain about, but nothing too remarkable.

Incidentally, the man himself has some strange taste in entertainment. I frequented his forum a while back ago, and he's made it clear that he believes "The Empire Strikes Back" from Star Wars to be a vastly inferior film to Episode IV. There's a section of his forum devoted exclusively to Star Wars just because he did a comic book cover back when Marvel was handling its comic franchise.

Like I said. Strange.

 

[SpiderByte]

Speaking of Kryptonite, I really wish they would expand more on it in the films. All we've seen so far is the generic green. The GA doesn't really know about the other kinds of Kryptonite, so it would be interesting to see Red Kryptonite, Slow Kryptonite (Kryptonite that affects humans, btw), and even Gold Kryptonite, if they need to.

 

[DavidTyler]

I've researched Superman #22 (never read it). It's important to know that Zod, Quex-Ul, and Zaora exterminated the entire human population of earth in a pocket universe; so obviously there weren't any officials around to see that justice was done.

And the Phantom Zone wasn't exactly available to him at that time. Afterward he is very disturbed by what he had to do.

One of the main reasons Superman and Batman are so averted to killing is that it isn't their job. They hold life sacred while realizing that in most cases their only job is to apprehend these criminals. Well, in this specific situation, it fell on Superman's shoulders, and it was the only option.

And it was a life lesson for Superman. It led to the much admired Exile In Space arc in the books.

 

[X Knight]

Hopefully, Goyer ( or whoever will write the next film ) will have enough sense to NOT be "married" to just one incarnation of Superman.

Whether it's post or pre-crisis, Silver Age, Byrnes' work, Birthright, the current comics, the animated series, Lois & Clark, Donner's films, there have been many incarnations of Superman, each with their strong points and weak points.

Hopefully, Goyer will draw upon the best from these different versions to give us a modern, fresh, exciting, and new take on the character that will introduce Superman to a new generation of fans while still staying true to who the character is.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Speaking of Kryptonite, I really wish they would expand more on it in the films. All we've seen so far is the generic green. The GA doesn't really know about the other kinds of Kryptonite, so it would be interesting to see Red Kryptonite, Slow Kryptonite (Kryptonite that affects humans, btw), and even Gold Kryptonite, if they need to.

More Kryptonite? I'm of the opposite mind, I want a movie with non of that. You can tell many great stories without the "magical amulet" from many other myths weakening or changing the hero in some way.

You don't need to weaken or change him in any way with any device in my opinion. I want to see Superman in top form facing an enemy his equal.

 

[SpiderByte]

No, I don't mean to use MORE Kryptonite. Just some DIFFERENT Kryptonite.

I mean, one of the main reasons that they started making other kinds in the comics was because Green Kryptonite started getting redundant. I mean, look at Smallville! Red Kryptonite turned Clark into a complete badass!

Plus, if they want to expand on more villains, if this film kicks off well, they're probably going to get to Metallo at some point.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i do want to see kryptonite play a part in this new film series. But i guess if we are going with lex/brainaic for the film.They could hold off on using kryptonite to the sequel more so if they use metallo. You got to have kryptonite for him. So maybe we can go through this first film with no kryptonte. But maybe hint towards its around. Or a final scene with some lex scientists discover it and say it match data from brainiac or superman and then we see it used in sequel.

 

[ChickenScratch]

No, I don't mean to use MORE Kryptonite. Just some DIFFERENT Kryptonite.

I mean, one of the main reasons that they started making other kinds in the comics was because Green Kryptonite started getting redundant. I mean, look at Smallville! Red Kryptonite turned Clark into a complete badass!

Plus, if they want to expand on more villains, if this film kicks off well, they're probably going to get to Metallo at some point.

I hear you man, but I'm no fan of it. There are so many stories where the hero's exposed to some "amulet" of some sort that changes him fundamentally for a while. I for one just want to see Superman in top form, not weakened or the way he behaves changed or his personality altered because or some other story device.

We've had quite a few movies with kryptonite used in different ways. We have also seen just two real Super powered battles, in Superman 2 and The Quest For Peace.

Kryptonite has it's place, but it's played a part in every movie thus far. Much like Lex has been there in every movie. It's not as if kryptonite and Lex are used in ever issue of the comic or every episode of STAS or JL, etc.

 

[Motown Marvel]

it seems currently in the comics they've been trying to blend the best of all the different ages of superman (they're more heavy with the silver age aspects, but im cool with it)....but its been working very well for the character.

 

[Webhead2006]

to me that is the best thing to do find the best elements and use them together in a blended story.