DC has their Big Three, who are Marvel's Big THree?

[Ben Urich]

And Ben, I would definitely disagree with your assessment. The Marvel universe could do easily without Thor, as they've been doing for a bit here. I feel as if Thor is one of the least inspired characters Marvel's ever had; the tiny bit of characterization that hasn't been lifted from Norse mythology leaves much to be desired.

By your own logic, Marvel's better off than DC. Since both the money and in-universe importance in DC is tied into those three characters (all of whom are one-dimensional and boring, IMO) were they to lose them they'd be totally screwed. In Marvel, any three characters could be taken out (yes, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wolverine even) and they'd still be pretty solid.

I think DCs books are far more interesting because I feel like there's genuinely something at stake. Under Joe Q's reign at Marvel, things happen and get retconned so quickly that there's no time for anything to really sink in. With DC, I know that what happens in a comic one week is probably going to be significant for years to come.
What any of the above has to do with the Trinity.... I have no idea. But it's just a point I wanted to raise.

 

[deemar325]

My assesment.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think it's fair to pass that judgment, considering you didn't give me the option to answer you on just how many DC books I've read. In the last few months, I've read multiple Superman titles, a few Batman (although he makes me sick to my stomach), and tried Infinite Crisis. I also looked at some of the smaller titles like Nighthawk (at least I think that's waht it was called), some Green Lanter stuff, and Teen Titans.

And it all sucked. Hard.

I don't blindly follow *anything* in life; if you knew me in person, you'd laugh at how inappropriate that staple is when referring to the way I think.

And in answer to your last post, it's not so much that the two companies are so dissimilar that I can argue wholesale with your assessment. However, I feel comfortable in saying that while Marvel invests heavily in Spiderman, Wolvie, and Hulk, DC invests so much more in their main three. An erasure of these two sets of three from their respective universes would affect DC on a much higher level than Marvel.

I wasn't passing any judgment on you personally. You said that we're on the Marvel forums so there must obviously be a Marvel bias; I said that I hoped people in general would be open-minded enough to see the two as different but not necessarily just consider one totally better and write the other off. I did give you a chance to tell me about your experience with DC. I wouldn't have bothered asking what DC books you've read at all if I were just making a personal attack on you.

You've sampled DC books and you don't like them--that's fine. But I still can't agree with your assessment that Marvel would somehow miraculously survive without their big cash cows anymore than DC would. Subtract Spider-Man and Wolverine from Marvel and you've still got a wide variety of great titles. In my case, if you subtract Spider-Man and Wolverine from the Marvel universe I'd probably end up reading about 3 fewer Marvel comics in total. But the same goes for DC. Subtract Batman and Superman and I'd be reading 4 fewer titles--the Superman and Batman ones. Proportionately, I'd still be reading about as many DC titles as I do Marvel ones.

Like I said, you don't think that DC would survive without Batman and Superman because, as you've just stated, your familiarity with DC is not that deep. It's fine, but it puts you in a position that's not really adequate to judge the legions of DC fans who consistently make Teen Titans, JSA, Checkmate, Outsiders, and many other DC comics top sellers right up there with the likes of Marvel's best-sellers.

For the sake of comparison, let's look at the top 20 comics. The most recent set I could find was for April 2006:

1 INFINITE CRISIS #6 (Of 7)

2 WOLVERINE ORIGINS #1

3 NEW AVENGERS #18

4 ASTONISHING X-MEN #14

5 JUSTICE #5 (Of 12)

6 MOON KNIGHT #1

7 NEW AVENGERS ANNUAL #1

8 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #531

9 TEEN TITANS #34

10 OMAC PROJECT INFINITE CRISIS SP

11 UNCANNY X-MEN #472

12 X-MEN #185

13 VILLAINS UNITED INFINITE CRISIS SP

14 SUPERMAN #651

15 ULTIMATE X-MEN #69

16 ULTIMATE EXTINCTION #4 (Of 5)

17 BATMAN #652

18 ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #93

19 WOLVERINE #41

20 ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #29

Subtract everything the respective cash cows are a part of--that'd be Superman, Batman, Wolverine, and Spider-Man. That leaves Moon Knight, Teen Titans, Villains United Special, and Ultimate Fantastic Four. 2 for Marvel, 2 for DC. They're even. If you want to compare by ratios, Marvel's got 13 of the top 20 to DC's 7. 2 of 13 is a smaller ratio than 2 of 7, so Marvel would proportionately be worse off than DC for its top sellers.

You don't like DC--cool with me. But please, all I ask is a little respect for the fact that Marvel is just as dependent on its money ****es as DC is. It's the same thing on both sides of the fence.

 

[deemar325]

Man you know how too make your point.

DC is still less interesting to me.

The only thing at DC I would say they got Marvel beat at is the Vertigo line and even Marvel is slowly catching up to them with MAX comics and ICON.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree that DC's got them beat with Vertigo, but I haven't seen anything from MAX or Icon that would come close to the true greats of Vertigo. It could happen, though.

 

[deemar325]

I agree that DC's got them beat with Vertigo, but I haven't seen anything from MAX or Icon that would come close to the true greats of Vertigo. It could happen, though.

Ennis' Punisher especially the one-shots.

Marvel just have more solid characters too me, more characters who could easily carry their own book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ennis' Punisher pales in comparison to Ennis' Preacher. It's good, it's just not up there with the likes of the Vertigo greats, like I said. MAX needs some work--and a lot more titles that, like Punisher, are about more under the MAX banner than free **** and cursing--before it reaches those heights.

 

[deemar325]

Give it time, Joey Q won't be around forever.

 

[mrokner]

This is a fine example of bs that I've seen from Marvel Fans. Someone asks a question about who are the big three in Marvel and a pissing contest starts, the shots fired from Marvel fans on DC. What a great display of maturity and it really speaks a lot about some fans. Do you think comic book writers give two ***** about which is better??? Stay on topic, for petes' sake. If you want to bash DC, go create a thread in the Marvel forum and bash DC there!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Give it time, Joey Q won't be around forever.

Wasn't Joe Q responsible for starting MAX in the first place?

 

[deemar325]

This is a fine example of bs that I've seen from Marvel Fans. Someone asks a question about who are the big three in Marvel and a pissing contest starts, the shots fired from Marvel fans on DC. What a great display of maturity and it really speaks a lot about some fans. Do you think comic book writers give two ***** about which is better??? Stay on topic, for petes' sake. If you want to bash DC, go create a thread in the Marvel forum and bash DC there!

We are in the Marvel forum numb nutz!

 

[deemar325]

Wasn't Joe Q responsible for starting MAX in the first place?

Yep.

Like I said, if we get a EIC with true vision MAX would rival Vertigo.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've been wondering why MAX hasn't been pushing the envelope more, myself. Nothing that's come out of the MAX imprint, other than Supreme Power and Punisher, has really used its explicit label to do anything really creative or interesting. You'd think it'd be a no-brainer to throw some more experimental comics under MAX and/or Icon and see how they go. But no. Just more standard Marvel fare, only this time it's got boobies and uncensored naughty words.

We are in the Marvel forum numb nutz!

I think he meant they should start a "lolz DC sux" type of thread. I don't really agree. People hijack threads all the time on the Hype. You just learn to live with and, in some late-night, drunken episodes, enjoy it.

 

[deemar325]

I think he meant they should start a "lolz DC sux" type of thread. I don't really agree. People hijack threads all the time on the Hype. You just learn to live with and, in some late-night, drunken episodes, enjoy it.

Heh! so true.

Well I just want you to know I like and read DC comics, it's just that DC heroes tend to be generic and visually unappealing to me. It's like all their artist at DC are stuck in the 70's and 80's or something.

 

[thor87]

ok, first off, neither is better than the other. Im predominitely a Marvel fan but i dabble in dc AND IT IS NOT BAD. ok how many people read identity crisis, that was amazing i dont care what universe you favor, the art the story and the writing were amazing. Now to answer the question as what would happen if DC lost the trinity then look at 52 and thats getting record sales. Now the big three are important to DC yes, but DC also has a million titles that all do equally well, Outsiders, teen titans, runaways, JLA, ION, green lantern, now take in the 3 bat titles and 3 superman titles and youve got a really strong industry, not to mention the other titeles that are not as popular but just as good, robin, nightwing, supergirl. Now lets see who went bankrupt not too long ago, i know it wasnt DC. Now trust me when i say I LOVE Marvel its a lot more real to me, down to earth, it deals with a lot more relavent stuff in my opinion. THEY ARE DIFFERENT that is what makes them BOTH good. I hate it when people say you can only like one or the other thats just juvenile in my opinion.

 

[deemar325]

ok, first off, neither is better than the other. Im predominitely a Marvel fan but i dabble in dc AND IT IS NOT BAD. ok how many people read identity crisis, that was amazing i dont care what universe you favor, the art the story and the writing were amazing. Now to answer the question as what would happen if DC lost the trinity then look at 52 and thats getting record sales. Now the big three are important to DC yes, but DC also has a million titles that all do equally well, Outsiders, teen titans, runaways, JLA, ION, green lantern, now take in the 3 bat titles and 3 superman titles and youve got a really strong industry, not to mention the other titeles that are not as popular but just as good, robin, nightwing, supergirl. Now lets see who went bankrupt not too long ago, i know it wasnt DC. Now trust me when i say I LOVE Marvel its a lot more real to me, down to earth, it deals with a lot more relavent stuff in my opinion. THEY ARE DIFFERENT that is what makes them BOTH good. I hate it when people say you can only like one or the other thats just juvenile in my opinion.

First off DC hasn't lost the big three 'One Year Later' we are talking if DC or Marvel for that matter never used their perspective heavy hitters again in a published comic or any other medium.

 

[mrokner]

We are in the Marvel forum numb nutz!

First of all, I love the language. It shows how mature you are and that your listening skills are up to par. In all seriousness, I won't stoop to your level. Learn to grow up and write constructively. It's nice that anyone could create a thread about any subject and the moderators are fine that the thread go off on a tangent. The fact that another person said this is a marvel thread really speaks volumes about courtesy and respect. Anyway, I was trying to help get this thread back on topic instead of turning it into a DC bash 'fest, but I guess some of you are okay with that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh! so true.

Well I just want you to know I like and read DC comics, it's just that DC heroes tend to be generic and visually unappealing to me. It's like all their artist at DC are stuck in the 70's and 80's or something.

I can't agree at all, but it's a matter of taste so whatever. Nightwing's got a very bold and modern costume, even though the artist drawing his comic happens to suck. Plus, the Kuberts, Carlos Pacheco, Dustin Nguyen, Scott McDaniel, and a lot of other younger artists with very energetic and active styles draw for DC. I think Marvel and DC are about even on the art front at the moment, myself.

 

[Ben Urich]

First of all, I love the language. It shows how mature you are and that your listening skills are up to par. In all seriousness, I won't stoop to your level. Learn to grow up and write constructively. It's nice that anyone could create a thread about any subject and the moderators are fine that the thread go off on a tangent. The fact that another person said this is a marvel thread really speaks volumes about courtesy and respect. Anyway, I was trying to help get this thread back on topic instead of turning it into a DC bash 'fest, but I guess some of you are okay with that.

Threads digress all the time, just like conversations. I don't see the problem.

 

[deemar325]

First of all, I love the language. It shows how mature you are and that your listening skills are up to par. In all seriousness, I won't stoop to your level. Learn to grow up and write constructively. It's nice that anyone could create a thread about any subject and the moderators are fine that the thread go off on a tangent. The fact that another person said this is a marvel thread really speaks volumes about courtesy and respect.

LOL!

First of all.....

We're doing fine without you trolling (which you are.)

If I've offended you and your precious DC, then deal with it.

 

[deemar325]

I can't agree at all, but it's a matter of taste so whatever. Nightwing's got a very bold and modern costume, even though the artist drawing his comic happens to suck. Plus, the Kuberts, Carlos Pacheco, Dustin Nguyen, Scott McDaniel, and a lot of other younger artists with very energetic and active styles draw for DC. I think Marvel and DC are about even on the art front at the moment, myself.

You make a good point, and it's a matter of taste, but DC just screams corny to me which is fine. Sometimes corny is awesome. (Plasticman)


I just think Marvel characters are more viable too a general audience.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I can't agree at all, but it's a matter of taste so whatever. Nightwing's got a very bold and modern costume, even though the artist drawing his comic happens to suck. Plus, the Kuberts, Carlos Pacheco, Dustin Nguyen, Scott McDaniel, and a lot of other younger artists with very energetic and active styles draw for DC. I think Marvel and DC are about even on the art front at the moment, myself.

Well he is right to an extent. Unlike Marvel, DC has kept most of their costumes exactly the same (for any number of reasons) since the characters creations often with only minor changes if any (Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman, Atom, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, Lex Luthor Powersuit, Joker, Two Face, Parasite, Hawkman, Black Canary, to name a very few have never changed costumes much at all--without reverting back.). Whereas in Marvel costume updates of very popular characters like Wolverine, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man, and the X-Men are very common. So you could say DC is stuck in the fourties. However that doesn't mean it is visually unappealing, DC is always the more iconic and "mythological" of the Universe's and the stable image associated with their heroes is almost necessary. And they most certainly have great artists to draw these characters, however unlike Marvel it does not feel the need to update their look, just their character.

 

[deemar325]

Well he is right to an extent. Unlike Marvel, DC has kept most of their costumes exactly the same (for any number of reasons) since the characters creations often with only minor changes if any (Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman, Atom, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, Lex Luthor Powersuit, Joker, Two Face, Parasite, Hawkman, Black Canary, to name a very few have never changed costumes much at all--without reverting back.). Whereas in Marvel costume updates of very popular characters like Wolverine, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man, and the X-Men are very common. So you could say DC is stuck in the fourties. However that doesn't mean it is visually unappealing, DC is always the more iconic and "mythological" of the Universe's and the stable image associated with their heroes is almost necessary. And they most certainly have great artists to draw these characters, however unlike Marvel it does not feel the need to update their look, just their character.

Theres that, DC is more Iconic. Yet it doesn't mean Martian Manhunter cant get a new look (which he has yay!) I think DC is on the right track overall, but Marvel just feels hipper and more intune with what is in the now.

While DC feels a decade behind.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You make a good point, and it's a matter of taste, but DC just screams corny to me which is fine. Sometimes corny is awesome. (Plasticman)


I just think Marvel characters are more viable too a general audience.

Again, I disagree. That goes back to the "Marvel is more realistic" argument, which I believe is utter, unfiltered bull****. Either publisher can do realistic or outlandish; it's dependent on the writers and the directions they wish to take the characters in. As far as I've seen, Marvel may appear "more realistic" because they focus in on a smaller group of street-level heroes and try to keep their characters in their own little pockets of their universe--Punisher lives in the gritty underbelly of New York and the Silver Surfer flies through space, and never the twain shall meet. DC's just got a more malleable universe, where things can intersect in ways you might not expect. Maybe that's just a less cynical take on it born of my enjoyment of DC's comics, though.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Theres that, DC is more Iconic. Yet it doesn't mean Martian Manhunter cant get a new look (which he has yay!) I think DC is on the right track overall, but Marvel just feels hipper and more intune with what is in the now.

While DC feels a decade behind.

I think in a way it's suppose to, like when you read a DC comic, your suppose to go "wow, these WERE the world's greatest heroes". It's kind of the nostaglic look into a simplier time when the bad guys were bad and the good guys were good. And then they fine tune the Universe with story, and show how perhaps this iconic world is not so perfect.