DC needs a hard reboot, and this time without Batman.

[Bl1nx28]

DCEU is bizarre but that's mostly WB's fault. It's world trying to mix realism, grit, fantasy, lighthearted,adventure and fun into one and it just comes off as weird.

Now I get a DC world without Batman sounds crazy but imo besides WB, Batman is also what's keeping the DCEU from becoming embracing the fun fantasy universe it can become.

I'm glad WB is going down a soft reboot route but imo it should just restart everything and this time give Batman his own universe separate from DCEU. Like Sony is with the Spiderverse. Call it the Batverse or something.
I'm not sure but it seems WB when starting this universe wanted the Batman from Nolan's movies but the problem is that Batman lives in a world of realism. Yes you can argue it's man dressed as a bat how is that real but...If one were to make the most realistic superhero from DC, Batman is as close as you can be to such a thing.

This is what creates a problem for DCEU, To include Batman you have to include his world also and Batman's world is just too dark and gritty when placed side by side with Superman or say Aquaman.

This soft reboot for instance a perfect example of how DCEU's universe is just off. Instead of just rebooting everything WB just hopes to correct it and this in turns creates a Universe that is disjointed in tone.

Look at BVS,Suicide Squad and the upcoming Joker for instance. All three films are going for a dark tone, Now place those same films next to WW, Aquaman and Shazam. Three films that are going the family friendly route. You can clearly see just how much difference in tone these films are and WB's soft attempt to somehow connect these worlds is just strange.

And this is why I firmly believe getting rid of Henry Cavil was a smart move but at the same time I believe just starting from scratch and removing everyone would have been a better choice.

This Batman we now embrace in media is far darker than his campy days and again in my opinion that is what's keeping DCEU from embracing the fantasy and fun side of their heroes.

I'm glad Shazam and Aquaman are embracing their campy comic characters and not shying away from it because this is the right tone for the DCEU. This is the route it should have went in the first place.

Now I'm not saying to throw Batman away completely. I'm just saying Batman works better in this age as a solo character, his universe works better when it's not connected to any other universe. So instead WB should give Batman a universe of his own.

All this is just my my thoughts but I do believe a DCEU would work better with a hard reboot and without Batman so it can be a fun adventure fantasy world full of superheroes that make you laugh, cry, filled with excitement. A Batman world could be filled with the dark and grit Batman is known for without limiting him in anyway. I think truly everyone wins this way.

Again this is just my thinking.

 

[Rocanrol]

Nonsense, without Batman there's no DC. Just like without Superman or WW.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Lol nah

 

[Boy Scout]

What he said.

 

[Deck Rickard]

How about a hard reboot with a Batman that doesn’t completely suck?

 

[FunkMiller]

While it’s fair to bring up the point that a dark and gritty Batman isn’t suited to the Justice League... you’re completely dismissing the fact that there is more than one way to interpret Batman. That’s what makes him the greatest comic book character of all time. He can be as grimdark, or as light as you want. Every different kind of Batman can work, if he’s written well.

 

[Rocanrol]

I don't think having a gritty and serious Batman was the problem, but presenting the whole universe like that. Batman should be the loner, asocial of the group. But the universe per se not be SO dark.

 

[2kt09]

I don't think having a gritty and serious Batman was the problem, but presenting the whole universe like that. Batman should be the loner, asocial of the group. But the universe per se not be SO dark.

By universe people really just mean Superman.

And it certainly came.

 

[Fincher]

I'm on the opposite end because I'm in favor of not having an overall shared universe, and have been all along. But if Superman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman did have to coexist, keeping Batman and Batman-adjacent characters separate would help.

 

[OutOfBoose]

What DC needs is ****ing great films. What DC doesn't need is worrying about large narrative and jamming all heroes into one -verse for the sake of crossovers. One movie at a time. Finished story. If it's great, continue it with a sequel.

 

[Jochimus]

I don't think rebooting without Batman, even if that were an option (which I doubt - this is WB we're talking about) is necessarily gonna make everything all better.

What I DO believe, though, is that something vastly different needs to be done with Batman. Ideally, I'd lean toward "Batman Beyond", but then I don't think WB at this point has the courage to go that far. More reasonably, I'd prefer they do a more respectable job of portraying the Batman/Robin partnership on screen.

 

[David H.]

Can’t franchise without it.

 

[Manasrepublic]

What DC needs is ****ing great films. What DC doesn't need is worrying about large narrative and jamming all heroes into one -verse for the sake of crossovers. One movie at a time. Finished story. If it's great, continue it with a sequel.

I totally agree with this and couldn’t have said it any better. The attempt to copy marvel and reverse engineer jusr failed because the completely contrasting visions by Snyder and the WB. Make solid solo hero films and that will reenergize the brand

 

[Boom]

I don't know where the notion comes from that Batman isn't fun. Batman: The Animated Series is often heralded as the best, most complete Batman adaptation of all time, and that series is plenty fun.

People often accuse Nolan of being responsible for putting Batman in this box where he has to be dark, gritty, and realistic all the time, yet six years later it's the fans who are the ones who keep pushing the idea. "Oh, he can't work with other characters like Superman and Aquaman. He's too realistic." Pardon the blunt language, but that's bull****. There is nothing realistic about him taking on monsters like Clayface or Man-Bat, or going toe-to-toe with an ecoterrorist who has lived for hundreds of years thanks to a rejuvenating pit. In the strictest of realism terms, Batman as a concept is just as outlandish as any of these other characters.

The animated series was a perfect blend of noir, pulp, and action/adventure. Batman had his family. He had a wry sense of humor and wasn't deadly serious all the time. Even today, I think everything that worked in that show serves as a perfect template for a live-action treatment. It's my hope that years from now, Batman directors who grew up in the 90s look to this show for influence instead of running back to Frank Miller over and over again. It's all right there.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

The animated series was a perfect blend of noir, pulp, and action/adventure. Batman had his family. He had a wry sense of humor and wasn't deadly serious all the time. Even today, I think everything that worked in that show serves as a perfect template for a live-action treatment. It's my hope that years from now, Batman directors who grew up in the 90s look to this show for influence instead of running back to Frank Miller over and over again. It's all right there.

 

[GreenKToo]

For me, it feels like WB tried to cram every solo film they should have made first into BvS.
You had Batman trying to do his own thing.
WW
Doomsday
Then Batman and Superman fighting.

In hindsight, WF film would have been better.
Batman and superman vs Lex, metallo, and joker.
You could still have WW at the end meeting both bats and supes, warning of darkseid coming.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I don't know where the notion comes from that Batman isn't fun. Batman: The Animated Series is often heralded as the best, most complete Batman adaptation of all time, and that series is plenty fun.

People often accuse Nolan of being responsible for putting Batman in this box where he has to be dark, gritty, and realistic all the time, yet six years later it's the fans who are the ones who keep pushing the idea. "Oh, he can't work with other characters like Superman and Aquaman. He's too realistic." Pardon the blunt language, but that's bull****. There is nothing realistic about him taking on monsters like Clayface or Man-Bat, or going toe-to-toe with an ecoterrorist who has lived for hundreds of years thanks to a rejuvenating pit. In the strictest of realism terms, Batman as a concept is just as outlandish as any of these other characters.

The animated series was a perfect blend of noir, pulp, and action/adventure. Batman had his family. He had a wry sense of humor and wasn't deadly serious all the time. Even today, I think everything that worked in that show serves as a perfect template for a live-action treatment. It's my hope that years from now, Batman directors who grew up in the 90s look to this show for influence instead of running back to Frank Miller over and over again. It's all right there.

Gottd**n right.

 

[THORin]

No, no, no! Batman can work, he just can't be Ben Affleck. And I would object; he's not the realistic one, Wonder Woman is. Her movie was actually serious, intense, and very gritty. And her costume looks plausible, whereas his looks ridiculous.

 

[Bl1nx28]

I'm on the opposite end because I'm in favor of not having an overall shared universe, and have been all along. But if Superman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman did have to coexist, keeping Batman and Batman-adjacent characters separate would help.

Thanks. This is sort of what I meant. I'm not hating Batman but this shared universe WB is going for just doesn't work onscreen like it does in comics imo. I say that because the current Batman WB opt for clashes in tone with the likes of SM,WW and AM. The world of Batman WB pushed for is so dark that movie wise it's odds when you see the high fantasy of Aquaman and or WW.

I like batman, I do but again this shared universe WB is going for, the way Batman is being portrayed as this dark character just really stands out as an oddball when compared to the light hearted tone WB is now pushing for.

I don't know where the notion comes from that Batman isn't fun. Batman: The Animated Series is often heralded as the best, most complete Batman adaptation of all time, and that series is plenty fun.

People often accuse Nolan of being responsible for putting Batman in this box where he has to be dark, gritty, and realistic all the time, yet six years later it's the fans who are the ones who keep pushing the idea. "Oh, he can't work with other characters like Superman and Aquaman. He's too realistic." Pardon the blunt language, but that's bull****. There is nothing realistic about him taking on monsters like Clayface or Man-Bat, or going toe-to-toe with an ecoterrorist who has lived for hundreds of years thanks to a rejuvenating pit. In the strictest of realism terms, Batman as a concept is just as outlandish as any of these other characters.

The animated series was a perfect blend of noir, pulp, and action/adventure. Batman had his family. He had a wry sense of humor and wasn't deadly serious all the time. Even today, I think everything that worked in that show serves as a perfect template for a live-action treatment. It's my hope that years from now, Batman directors who grew up in the 90s look to this show for influence instead of running back to Frank Miller over and over again. It's all right there.

I know batman can be fun, I really do. It's just WB's version of batman they pushed for is why I said it works best if he had his own universe separate from others. If batman was re-written and rebooted to not be the murderous paranoid guy like was he was in BVS then imo he could easily blend in with the family friendly tone WB seems to now want. All in all I'm not blaming the character. I'm mostly blaming WB for creating this shared universe that clashes in tone with itself. As a result it's a universe that's at odds with itself. WB's DCEU doesn't know if it should be dark and gritty or lighthearted and fun.

 

[Bl1nx28]

While it’s fair to bring up the point that a dark and gritty Batman isn’t suited to the Justice League... you’re completely dismissing the fact that there is more than one way to interpret Batman. That’s what makes him the greatest comic book character of all time. He can be as grimdark, or as light as you want. Every different kind of Batman can work, if he’s written well.

I'm not dismissing anything. And yes I know that Batman can be re-written. Just saying's WB's Batman is not blending in well. But hey if WB abandons this dark and gritty Batman they seem to want to keep and instead make him not the depressing guy they created onscreen, then I'm all for it. One thing I like about the old Batman cartoons is, you don't have to make Batman's world depressing and gritty. Again it's not the character, it's WB's version of the character.

 

[sf2]

DC can't survive without batman...

and his villians

 

[Herofan]

While it’s fair to bring up the point that a dark and gritty Batman isn’t suited to the Justice League... you’re completely dismissing the fact that there is more than one way to interpret Batman. That’s what makes him the greatest comic book character of all time. He can be as grimdark, or as light as you want. Every different kind of Batman can work, if he’s written well.

I think most critics, filmmakers, even (aside from in outright parody) audiences aren't really interested in or liking of light Batman. The last film that tried to have Batman dark or at least moody but also be all-ages/kid friendly, aside from maybe BB, was love-it-or-hate-it BF which quickly led to most-hate-it B&R.

The animated series was a perfect blend of noir, pulp, and action/adventure. Batman had his family. He had a wry sense of humor and wasn't deadly serious all the time. Even today, I think everything that worked in that show serves as a perfect template for a live-action treatment.

I think even most fans of the show don't really like its versions of the Robins or Batgirl, though, think they very much were there just because of mandates/obligation.

 

[Boy Scout]

That’s the first I’m ever hearing of that. As far as I know, the DCAU Robins and Batgirl were relatively well liked.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Add Superman to the list of character omitted or relegated to the support character in a dceu reboot

 

[Cl4nk]

Add Superman to the list of character omitted or relegated to the support character in a dceu reboot

Why omit Superman too?