Do you agree it's time to reboot and why?

[Milk Tray Guy]

From a story and character standpoint, I don't really see what rebooting would solve, and I find it to be a bit of a copout in some cases.

For instance, they could fix issues like Batman being a killer/plotting to kill Superman, Wonder Woman not being part of man's world for a long time...and Superman...not being positive enough...but I don't think those are really the major quality issues this franchise has, and I don't think rebooting to directly address them is the smart play.

They're already sort of rebooting Batman with Reeve's franchise, which will likely feature a younger Batman or some sort of prequel approach, but I'm okay with the idea that Batman has been around, seen some stuff, and has a "family" out there in the current DCEU.

This post from Greenlite http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=36238315&postcount=775 on the Matt Reeves To Direct The Upcoming Batman Solo thread might be of interest.

 

[DrCosmic]

Rebooting everything is just another form of sloppy rushed craven narrative at this point. Skip the hard work of building and just get to the good stuff. The DCEU needs to earn goodwill, a reboot does not do that, a reboot and a great film doesn't do that as much as just making a great film in the current continuity does.

Also, soft rebooting is a legitimate option, and probably the best choice as long as they don't have a Kevin Feige and have to play it by ear film to film anyway.

 

[MbJ]

I think soft reboot is the way to go. Justice League more or less already started it by massively retconning Superman's characterization and pretending large chunks of the previous movie didn't happen. I figure WB is gonna try some sort of reboot with Flashpoint though.

It would be funny if Aquaman and Shazam makes more than Justice league, with like half the budget.

I don't really think that's gonna happen. I want it to be a hit but I don't see it working out. BVS was poorly received enough by viewers that it scared off a large chunk of the audience from going to see the sequel, and I think something similar is gonna happen with Aquaman.

I think it'll be a minor success (I'm thinking around 500-600 million), which should be fine given the budget.

 

[brandeezy89]

Rebooting doesn't automatically gain you fans and billion dollars at the BO or trust with the GA. Like someone else said, you have to build it up through solid to great films.

 

[Lantern Venom]

They apparently have elseworld plans.
So, it'd be like when WB actually did more than just Batman/Superman or the kind of thing they've been doing in animation for decades.

I'd say that's a tweak since they'll also be continuing with this version of Wonder Woman. The DCEU isn't gone, but the future of DC at WB is fluid, and probably not as rich as it should have been.

To continue your analogy, they got out of the blocks, stumbled, and fell flat on their face.

The only thing you can do at that point is start a new race.

Man of Steel made money. BvS made money. Suicide Squad made money. Wonder Woman made money. Those were all successful in the most important category. However, Justice League apparently made peanuts. That will mean that WB will look to course correct in some manner, but they're not going to trash what has worked so far.

 

[2kt09]

I'd say that's a tweak since they'll also be continuing with this version of Wonder Woman. The DCEU isn't gone, but the future of DC at WB is fluid, and probably not as rich as it should have been.

People definitely won't "go hungry" if one universe is all they can get yet choose to reject from live-action DC. The fluidity and flexibility is also great for anyone willing when being confined is such a turn-off for directors/writers who would rather create & play in their own sandbox.

 

[fan4stic]

I'm not a fan of using sequels to fix the problems of their predecessors, and certainly not at this level (which is why I don't like the Flashpoint idea, either). It would also be so painfully obvious to the audience, like when BVS kept emphasizing that downtown Gotham was empty during the Doomsday fight.

Maybe. But I'd take that over outright rebooting.

 

[Lantern Venom]

People definitely won't "go hungry" if one universe is all they can get yet choose to reject from live-action DC..

They will if they're in the complete reboot camp. The DCEU was already delayed because Superman Returns and Green Lantern didn't get the acceptance that WB wanted. It's unrealistic to think that WB is going to scrap everything again and start from scratch. There is zero chance that we'll get a completely different live-action DC universe. Even if we do get a Flashpoint event, some elements are going to stay firmly in place.

 

[unholyrevenger]

There's nothing they can do but keep going forward.

Superman is a lost cause, bench him. There is no iteration of Superman that will not be divisive. Corny Dad Humor Superman doesn't bring people to the box office box 4 to 5 hundred million at the box office (JL, Superman Returns). Strait faced brick **** house Supes brings people to the movies but gets railed by critics and bigots for not being Superman.

 

[2kt09]

They will if they're in the complete reboot camp. The DCEU was already delayed because Superman Returns and Green Lantern didn't get the acceptance that WB wanted. It's unrealistic to think that WB is going to scrap everything again and start from scratch. There is zero chance that we'll get a completely different live-action DC universe. Even if we do get a Flashpoint event, some elements are going to stay firmly in place.

The route of having a shared universe and something else (rumored) alongside it is richer than solely doing a shared universe as DC's bread & butter has always been the former. For now, it's just the difference between live-action and animation on the big screen.

 

[jmc]

Just treat it all like the Bond movies. Technically all in continuity but not being concerned with everything linking up. No set ups, no nods, doesn't even matter if the actors or the suits or the cities change, just give each characters their own little corner of the DC Universe and let them play in that space.

 

[honestbharani]

I'd say that's a tweak since they'll also be continuing with this version of Wonder Woman. The DCEU isn't gone, but the future of DC at WB is fluid, and probably not as rich as it should have been.



Man of Steel made money. BvS made money. Suicide Squad made money. Wonder Woman made money. Those were all successful in the most important category. However, Justice League apparently made peanuts. That will mean that WB will look to course correct in some manner, but they're not going to trash what has worked so far.

That is not how it will be viewed. 3 out of the 5 movies have under performed relative to expectations and that is why each of their successor movies had some meddling from the execs. If you think investors are happy with change profit out of Batman, Superman and JL properties, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Superchan]

There's nothing they can do but keep going forward.

Superman is a lost cause, bench him. There is no iteration of Superman that will not be divisive. Corny Dad Humor Superman doesn't bring people to the box office box 4 to 5 hundred million at the box office (JL, Superman Returns). Strait faced brick **** house Supes brings people to the movies but gets railed by critics and bigots for not being Superman.

Yeah a good iteration of superman won't be divisive.
SR didn't have corny dad humor superman, SR had the same mopey, emo, dialogue challenged superman we got from MOS and BvS not to mention that SR stank to high heaven. As for JL, that corny dad humor superman was in the movie for less than 20 minutes and the movie itself sucked and if you want to blame any character for the movie's failure then blame batman and WW who were featured in the marketing.
Both movies featuring 'Strait faced brick **** house Supes' were unmitigated piles of dinosaur s*** hence why these movies were railed by critics and 'bigots' as you call them.
Conclusion; SR, MOS and BvS were hated by the audience because they sucked monkey balls so the problem isn't with superman but rather with the execution, so how about we wait and see how a good superman movie does before look for him in the obits.

 

[MbJ]

That is not how it will be viewed. 3 out of the 5 movies have under performed relative to expectations and that is why each of their successor movies had some meddling from the execs. If you think investors are happy with change profit out of Batman, Superman and JL properties, you are sadly mistaken.

It was also short term profit that damaged the brand long term, as we saw with the opening weekend for Justice League.

 

[Lantern Venom]

That is not how it will be viewed. 3 out of the 5 movies have under performed relative to expectations and that is why each of their successor movies had some meddling from the execs. If you think investors are happy with change profit out of Batman, Superman and JL properties, you are sadly mistaken.

Proven moneymakers aren't going to be abandoned to roll the dice on more unknowns. If you think investors are upset that they didn't get exactly what they wanted, imagine how they would react at the prospect of nixing Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn's future for more uncertainty.

A complete reboot at this point isn't an option. There are some avenues on the table, but its more likely that we'll see solos and reduced overall output.

 

[honestbharani]

Proven moneymakers aren't going to be abandoned to roll the dice on more unknowns. If you think investors are upset that they didn't get exactly what they wanted, imagine how they would react at the prospect of nixing Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn's future for more uncertainty.

A complete reboot at this point isn't an option. There are some avenues on the table, but its more likely that we'll see solos and reduced overall output.

I never argued that they need to reboot. I actually said that they should not reboot if you read my response to that question. I am just pointing out that the men who matter did not view BvS or MoS as financial successes. They were deemed to not have met expectations and ultimately that has led to JL turning in a loss for the studio.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think it’s a given that they’re going to soft reboot the entire universe. They’ll keep what works, ignore what doesn’t, and keep the crossovers to a minimum.

 

[The Guard]

Serious question...why do we have to call that process "rebooting"?

"Retooling", perhaps...

Because it seems to me that what you're describing is just the process of adapting to responses to creative choices and market demands. Which almost every franchise or series or serial out there does, to some extent.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Serious question...why do we have to call that process "rebooting"?

"Retooling", perhaps...

Because it seems to me that what you're describing is just the process of adapting to responses to creative choices and market demands. Which almost every franchise or series or serial out there does, to some extent.

I used to work for an employer whose 'mission statement' included having a commitment to "respond to well-founded criticism with a willingness to change". That's basically what they're doing here.

 

[Grillz]

I used to work for an employer whose 'mission statement' included having a commitment to "respond to well-founded criticism with a willingness to change". That's basically what they're doing here.

Bingo. I still say a full on reboot is a waste of everything. They're basically rebooting behind the scenes, what must be done to be successful is this fundamental point: have competent writing. Have a decent story. Have characters (can even be played by the same cast) that audiences can get behind. With all of that you have a good film. No ultra fan service, no sequel hooks, just focus on a good film.

Basically DC is going to go through what FOX did with X Men. JL may have been the Origins:Wolverine or X3 of this franchise.

 

[Boy Scout]

For me, even though I don’t think they’ll actually go through with it, the appeal of a full-on reboot is being able to enjoy a Batman and Superman who aren’t killers. It’s a selfish desire of mine. And before anyone says it, I know they’ve both killed on screen before. I’m not especially fond of those moments either.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I admit I prefer a Batman who tries to avoid killing, although for some reason I've never had a problem with his killing in the Burton films

 

[Boy Scout]

I’m not as bothered by what’s happened in the past because...well...those movies were made in the past. I was born in ‘95, so no amount of whining is gonna change what happened there.

Batman definitely killed in the Nolan movies though, which I don’t really like, but at least those instances were at least somewhat understandable and weren’t done with malicious intent.

 

[Big Lob]

Marvel managed to make their movies into appointment movies, while DC damaged their connective-tissue with some toxic protrayals, lame plot points and bad acting on top of it all. Who in their right mind thought some weird combo of the Death of Superman/The Dark Knight Rises was a good way to build a universe around anyway? That's the starting point?

Basically, Gal as Wonder Woman is the only thing that has left a good impression on the movie going public. That's what the reboot talk is really talking about, right? Is it worth it to ditch the Wonder Woman team to get another crack at starting everything from scratch?

I think it'd be foolish to ditch her and Paty. There's no promise a reboot of Wonder Woman would be met very well anyway. The recasted role would be compared and many would be annoyed Gal didn't get her proper movie run. The Wonder Woman movie, in terms of reception and earnings, the crew deserves a chance to move forward.

The best thing to do is to fix Batman and Superman. Let Superman be Superman. Let Batman be Batman. These aren't hard characters to do. A freaking CW show did Superman better than the recent movies. Let that sink in.

Everything else is everything else. Flash, Aquaman and so forth. Depends on reviews and word of mouth. The general movie public is not going to be fooled, not in this age of information.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Yeah a good iteration of superman won't be divisive.
SR didn't have corny dad humor superman, SR had the same mopey, emo, dialogue challenged superman we got from MOS and BvS not to mention that SR stank to high heaven. As for JL, that corny dad humor superman was in the movie for less than 20 minutes and the movie itself sucked and if you want to blame any character for the movie's failure then blame batman and WW who were featured in the marketing.
Both movies featuring 'Strait faced brick **** house Supes' were unmitigated piles of dinosaur s*** hence why these movies were railed by critics and 'bigots' as you call them.
Conclusion; SR, MOS and BvS were hated by the audience because they sucked monkey balls so the problem isn't with superman but rather with the execution, so how about we wait and see how a good superman movie does before look for him in the obits.

Execution isn't the problem. If it was we'd still be getting Brandon Routh Superman movies because SR was executed properly whether or not you choose to believe that. The problem is that Superman is a divisive character. He is essentially a religious icon and with religion comes bigots. You can probably appease the general audience but you won't appease the bigots.

As far as JL under performance i chalk that up to bad timing. The weekend before thanksgiving is not a weekend you want because americans a prepping for thanksgiving.