DC Property into a TV Series

[The Englishman]

I knew I was spelling it wrong. Anyway, what I meant was that all the stuff with Jason being Robin and his death would have to be done off screen because of Batman. So Dick would have to be informed somehow.

Yeah i suppose, although you could have Jason guest star as Robin in the 1st series...

 

[TheShah]

Damn.
All this talk of a Nightwing series, has gotten me convinced.

However, I have to point out that the risk of a Dick Grayson/Nightwing show would rely wayy too heavily on alussions of Batman/Bruce Wayne and all that comes with him, the rogues, the cities, recurring characters.
There's a huge risk of the the show being overwhelmed by inside referances and fan-centric arcs that may lose the general non-comic book audience.

 

[TheShah]

How about a Nightwing show, from the POV of Tim Drake pre-robin days.

A young orphaned Drake, admiring the exploits of local vigilante Nightwing, analyzing and comparing him to a former legend/urban myth heard of in another city.
A chance encounter (or pre-planned) puts the youth face to face with this vigilante, who dismisses it initially as an obsessive kid, only to find that the kid has figured out his true identity.
From there on we could see their relationship grow with Drake's eagerness to be Nightwing's partner, Graysons reluctance to be forced back into a mentor/ward relationship.

The first season could develop their relationship, using the original Bruce/Dick dynamic as a template, as well as set up other comic-book arcs + origins of Nightwing.
The whole series could be an amalgamation of the origins of the Different Robins + Batman, etc... but focus on a fresh pairing the emulates and throws back to that of the original Batman/Robin duo, while being darker and more seeped in the history of the Bat-verse.

SMALLVILLE was an origins show, this could be an established show with history and back story that gets revealed through the seasons and introduced as being the first time we've heard it, so as to not alienate the non-comic book audience.

 

[GL1]

However, I have to point out that the risk of a Dick Grayson/Nightwing show would rely wayy too heavily on alussions of Batman/Bruce Wayne and all that comes with him, the rogues, the cities, recurring characters.
There's a huge risk of the the show being overwhelmed by inside referances and fan-centric arcs that may lose the general non-comic book audience.

That's a good point, you want to evoke crime drama, not superfriends (because many people have no inbetween), so you do need to keep NW 'on the street' as opposed to being too 4 color. I'd say stay out of Batman's rogue's gallery altogether, but leave the Robin crossoverish mythos for special occasions.

 

[SPIDERFIST]

Nightwing all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Birds of Prey could be his support team on occasion. Crossovers with Robin would definitely work.

Why not immediately set up a crime war in Bludhaven between Blockbuster and the Red Hood with Nightwing caught in the middle?

A love triangle between Oracle/Huntress/Nightwing?

Characters from his Teen Titan/Outsider days could always be thrown in occasionally.

Personally I'd try to keep Batman and Gotham out of it. They're too much of a commodity to the films and the powers that be probably wouldn't allow them to be used for a TV show. (Batman, anyway. Shame.)

I volunteer to write, produce, direct, star, cast, etc, the entire thing. Please let me. Oh please oh please oh please oh please.

 

[Artistsean]

OK, imagine Nightwing season one going something like this:
(Just for a starting point, and not saying it should start here)
Dick Grayson has recently moved to Bloodhaven (spelling?), he is starting a new life. Maybe he goes on job hunts and rents an apartment. He is tight lipped about his old one, seems like he is trying to leave something in his past. At night the streets of Bloodhaven are stalked by a strange new dark vigilante. the audience finds out its Dick Grayson. Its quickly revealed over a few episodes that he is Batman's former partner Robin, now calling himself Nightwing.
We also find out about a mob and its boss, Blockbuster. And over the same episodes we find out that Blockbuster isn't an average mob boss, but a super criminal with brute strength.
Over season one we find out that Dick left Gotham, for good. He is never going back. He is going to make it on his own or die trying. Prove Bruce wrong. He wont even call Bruce, the closest he gets is talking to Barbara over the phone and on the internet.
A few times during season one, at least once, Dick almost picks up the phone to call Bruce (Batman), but then stops himself.
Seson one leads to a final confrontation (or maybe just a face to face meeting) with Blockbuster.

Subtly the audience gets the idea that we aren't seeing Batman because Dick is out to prove he can make it on his own. Even if its stupid and pig headed and may get him killed, he wont call Batman. We don't even see Robin during season one, or any Batman villains.
We establish that he is on his own, and the type of bad guys he fights and what his stories are like.
The show would never once steer the audience into thinking that Batman might show up. We don't even show him in flashbacks or hint at him either (like Birds of Prey did).

 

[TheShah]

OK, imagine Nightwing season one going something like this:
(Just for a starting point, and not saying it should start here)
Dick Grayson has recently moved to Bloodhaven (spelling?), he is starting a new life. Maybe he goes on job hunts and rents an apartment. He is tight lipped about his old one, seems like he is trying to leave something in his past. At night the streets of Bloodhaven are stalked by a strange new dark vigilante. the audience finds out its Dick Grayson. Its quickly revealed over a few episodes that he is Batman's former partner Robin, now calling himself Nightwing.
We also find out about a mob and its boss, Blockbuster. And over the same episodes we find out that Blockbuster isn't an average mob boss, but a super criminal with brute strength.
Over season one we find out that Dick left Gotham, for good. He is never going back. He is going to make it on his own or die trying. Prove Bruce wrong. He wont even call Bruce, the closest he gets is talking to Barbara over the phone and on the internet.
A few times during season one, at least once, Dick almost picks up the phone to call Bruce (Batman), but then stops himself.
Seson one leads to a final confrontation (or maybe just a face to face meeting) with Blockbuster.

Subtly the audience gets the idea that we aren't seeing Batman because Dick is out to prove he can make it on his own. Even if its stupid and pig headed and may get him killed, he wont call Batman. We don't even see Robin during season one, or any Batman villains.
We establish that he is on his own, and the type of bad guys he fights and what his stories are like.
The show would never once steer the audience into thinking that Batman might show up. We don't even show him in flashbacks or hint at him either (like Birds of Prey did).

Hmmm... problem with that is what I mentioned earlier.
It relies too heavily on the audience who put the pieces together of what he's moving away from, who he was, what it means to have BEEN Robin.
Also it would need to assume that the audience knows the relationship between Dick and Bruce and their history for those scenes of 'trying to prove himself' to be effective.

The series needs to stand on it's own in it's own continuity and not carry forward, mid step, from a mythos that only comic book fans know the ins and outs of.

 

[misjuevos]

batman beyond would be cool. i really liked the future aspect of it. the effects might get to expensive though. lots of flying and future tech stuff.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The way they re raping Superman up the ass with Smallville, i dont want them doing a live action TV series.

batman beyond would be cool. i really liked the future aspect of it. the effects might get to expensive though. lots of flying and future tech stuff.

You can see from Smallville or Supernatural that they dont have the budget for flying, big fights and CGI for every episode and they save all that for the season ending. The show has to be down to earth or it will never reach its full potential and action will be substituted with soap opera.

 

[Artistsean]

Hmmm... problem with that is what I mentioned earlier.
It relies too heavily on the audience who put the pieces together of what he's moving away from, who he was, what it means to have BEEN Robin.
Also it would need to assume that the audience knows the relationship between Dick and Bruce and their history for those scenes of 'trying to prove himself' to be effective.

The series needs to stand on it's own in it's own continuity and not carry forward, mid step, from a mythos that only comic book fans know the ins and outs of.

I see what you mean. So maybe the first episode sort of spells it out a little more. That Dick Grayson just left Gotham, that he used to be Robin.
Sure he could even narrate in the opening something like, "You heard of Batman and Robin right? I used to be Robin. Used to be is whats important here." And then maybe go into wanting to start a new life, make it on his own. Maybe even say something about that's why he moved to one of the worst cities in the world, second only to Gotham. But he couldn't stay there. And stuff like that.
I am fairly certain that almost everyone knows about Batman and Robin. And I think, even if it is spelled out a little more than we would want to, most people could pick up on Dick feeling hostile towards batman for some reason and that he wants to make it on his own.
Especially if there are scenes like,
Dick is in serious trouble over something, he is thinking about calling Batman for help. He almost picks up the phone. His hand hovers over it. And then clutches into a fist as he pulls away.
"No, I can do this. I'll show him I can do this."
And I think this feeling Dick has towards Batman is sort of a universal thing, feeling like you have to break away to make it. Feelings of some resentment towards a father figure.

Also, the show could look to Batman the animated series for guidance. That show was built for an audience of younger viewers who may not known who Batman was. And they did a pretty good job of establishing Dick's feelings towards Batman.

I agree with you that the show could rely too much on the audience automatically knowing whats going on, but I think people will get it mostly.

 

[The Englishman]

OK, imagine Nightwing season one going something like this:
(Just for a starting point, and not saying it should start here)
Dick Grayson has recently moved to Bloodhaven (spelling?), he is starting a new life. Maybe he goes on job hunts and rents an apartment. He is tight lipped about his old one, seems like he is trying to leave something in his past. At night the streets of Bloodhaven are stalked by a strange new dark vigilante. the audience finds out its Dick Grayson. Its quickly revealed over a few episodes that he is Batman's former partner Robin, now calling himself Nightwing.
We also find out about a mob and its boss, Blockbuster. And over the same episodes we find out that Blockbuster isn't an average mob boss, but a super criminal with brute strength.
Over season one we find out that Dick left Gotham, for good. He is never going back. He is going to make it on his own or die trying. Prove Bruce wrong. He wont even call Bruce, the closest he gets is talking to Barbara over the phone and on the internet.
A few times during season one, at least once, Dick almost picks up the phone to call Bruce (Batman), but then stops himself.
Seson one leads to a final confrontation (or maybe just a face to face meeting) with Blockbuster.

Subtly the audience gets the idea that we aren't seeing Batman because Dick is out to prove he can make it on his own. Even if its stupid and pig headed and may get him killed, he wont call Batman. We don't even see Robin during season one, or any Batman villains.
We establish that he is on his own, and the type of bad guys he fights and what his stories are like.
The show would never once steer the audience into thinking that Batman might show up. We don't even show him in flashbacks or hint at him either (like Birds of Prey did).

I see what you mean. So maybe the first episode sort of spells it out a little more. That Dick Grayson just left Gotham, that he used to be Robin.
Sure he could even narrate in the opening something like, "You heard of Batman and Robin right? I used to be Robin. Used to be is whats important here." And then maybe go into wanting to start a new life, make it on his own. Maybe even say something about that's why he moved to one of the worst cities in the world, second only to Gotham. But he couldn't stay there. And stuff like that.
I am fairly certain that almost everyone knows about Batman and Robin. And I think, even if it is spelled out a little more than we would want to, most people could pick up on Dick feeling hostile towards batman for some reason and that he wants to make it on his own.
Especially if there are scenes like,
Dick is in serious trouble over something, he is thinking about calling Batman for help. He almost picks up the phone. His hand hovers over it. And then clutches into a fist as he pulls away.
"No, I can do this. I'll show him I can do this."
And I think this feeling Dick has towards Batman is sort of a universal thing, feeling like you have to break away to make it. Feelings of some resentment towards a father figure.

Also, the show could look to Batman the animated series for guidance. That show was built for an audience of younger viewers who may not known who Batman was. And they did a pretty good job of establishing Dick's feelings towards Batman.

I agree with you that the show could rely too much on the audience automatically knowing whats going on, but I think people will get it mostly.

Yes i like these ideas alot

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'm all for a Nightwing TV series. Thumbs up guys!

 

[SPIDERFIST]

Maybe his reason for leaving and being ill with Batman is that he holds him responsible for Barbara Gordon being paralyzed by the Joker. Dick thinks steps could have been taken to prevent that madman from ever doing anything like that and Bruce didn't do it. Now he's in Bludhaven with the intent of showing Bruce how he has his own way of dealing with criminals by taking them down in a brutal fashion and even nearly killing them with his own hands. This will cause Dick to consider just how far he's willing to go morally and ethically.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Maybe his reason for leaving and being ill with Batman is that he holds him responsible for Barbara Gordon being paralyzed by the Joker. Dick thinks steps could have been taken to prevent that madman from ever doing anything like that and Bruce didn't do it. Now he's in Bludhaven with the intent of showing Bruce how he has his own way of dealing with criminals by taking them down in a brutal fashion and even nearly killing them with his own hands. This will cause Dick to consider just how far he's willing to go morally and ethically.

I have many issues with this.
1) Batman, the king of preptime didnt think of something that would protect Babs?
2) Even if Dick thought of it, why would Batman not do it?
3) How do you stop the Joker from shooting someone in the spine? Its not like he shot Babs because she was Batgirl, he did it because she was Gordon's daughter. You cant do anything about that.
4) Dick becoming grimdark and almost killing people? Dick's primary characteristic is that he is happy, lighthearted, optimistic and generally a nice guy. No matter how deep Bruce fell in grimdark, Dick was always that way.
5) Dick's moral code should have been defined after all these years at Batman's side. He is no rookie.

 

[SPIDERFIST]

Okay.

 

[Artistsean]

For a show like this to work, basing a show on a Batman character while excluding anything about Batman, would be hard. Especially if you make the reason for Dick leaving involve Batman more than it has to.
Even then its still hard. You don't want the audience to be expecting Batman or be watching wanting Batman instead of Nightwing.
If its some unresolved issue the audience might expect it to be resolved.
I thought of making his reason for leaving because of Barbara's getting shot too, but now that I think about it maybe it should just be something like Dick feels he MUST go, that its time. So that its nothing the he or that Bruce has done, necessarily, just that its time for Dick to move on and start his own life. Move out of his father's house and make it on his own or die trying.
Plus it might make it easier to relate to and easier to get started rather than having to go into the Joker, Batman, Batgirl, and her getting shot and all that.
Maybe, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jordacar]

They already tried most of this with Birds of Prey. It didn't work too well.

 

[Artistsean]

I am not sure about Birds of Prey, I stopped watching it,
but it would have a similar problem that Birds of Prey had, dealing with Batman characters directly linked to Batman but not showing him.
(the show started out showing Batman fighting the Joker, showed he lived, but he wont be in the show for some reason).
Thats why I came up with the whole Dick is going to make it ON HIS OWN, or die trying. No help from Bruce, not even contact. Not even a phone call.
Sort of telling the viewer you wont see Batman in this.
Teen Titans did something similar, just never mentioned Batman, but they hinted at it once in a while. Robin and Slade fighting on top of a building we later see says Wayne. Bats flying.

I think this could work, maybe.

 

[SPIDERFIST]

That's my deal. Batman is a cinema commodity now. I don't think his character would be allowed for use in a TV series. (Maybe one day. It'd be nice.) Any allusion to him will have to be off camera. And I think for a series about Nightwing that would be okay. They could even do a Charlie's Angels kind of thing where you never really see Bats or Bruce except obliquely for phone conversations. (That sounds cheesy, I know, but you work with what you've got.) Sure, everyone will fuss about "When are we going to see Batman?" and you never know, he just might finally make an appearance. But you know they'd milk it for all it's worth. I almost think that would be wrong to do because then the focus would shift from Nightwing to Bats. Therefore, keep Bats in the background but around to some degree. And not, like, every episode either.

Nightwing has to be a predominantly stand-alone character. Still he'll need advice/help from time to time. I still think using the Birds of Prey characters as a back-up team for him would work. And I think you could still bring in former Titans and Outsiders occasionally.

I agree that my early premise was most likely inappropriate for him as far as him pressing the limits of his ethical/moral boundaries. He is a lighthearted character. But he does have his share of grim moments. You can have the grim and the grins with him.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The thing with TV series is that they have limited budget and therefore whichever franchise they choose to adapt should be doable with limited budget. Personally i dont think they can pull Batman off. Hell, they cant even pull Superman off and that's why Smallville is all about drama, discussions in Lex's room while he is starring at the fireplace, and crappy character development.

A more down to earth franchise would be more appropriate.

 

[Artistsean]

I think Nightwing would be doable. As doable as Smallville, and look how long that series lasted. Its not as doable as my other idea (Sandman Mytery Theater starring Wesley Dodds) I posted earlier.
But its doable. Same level of drama, same level of action, same level and price of CG and FX (maybe even cheaper now since technology has advanced), same level of writing, same level of acting.
Even his costume would transfer, with the likes of the costumes Smallville has with Green Arrow and the Flash and the rest,
His costume could be as simple as something like this:

With a utility belt and stuff, keep it simple and maybe down play the costume like Jack Knight's Starman costume.
I just mean his costume could be done in a way that wouldn't look stupid, or any more stupid than Smallville's costumes.

Even his villains, Blockbuster being a big hulking mob boss. Maybe bring in Slade, having his costume be more like a bunch of necissary SWAT like gear (like Batman in the Dark Knight movie).

Things in Nightwing could be done with the same level of quality, or more, that Smallville had.

I still like my idea for Sandman's Mystery Theater, posted earlier in this thread, about Wesley Dodds done in a period peice murder mystery show.
But this Nightwing just seems like a natural choice, a gimme, for the WB or the CW or whatever.
I mean they were in talks about doing a show about the Graysons, prior to their death and Dick becoming Robin.

 

[Mr. Earle]

If they re going to do a superhero TV series, then why change the costumes? I cant stand seeing Clark dressed like Neo in Smallville when Green Arrow or Hawkman have their comicbook costumes. WTF?

If you re gonna do a superhero TV series, then go all out.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

The Sandman Mystery Theater would work as a DC Heroes Anthology type series. Maybe focus on a different hero each episode.

 

[Artistsean]

For my Sandman Mystery Theater idea I was suggesting, it would be more like the Murder Mysteries on KPBS or something. Hour Long murder mysteries where Wesley Dodds and Dian Dodds try to solve the murder. I posted it earlier.

Spoiler

My pitch of for a Sandman Mystery Theater (live action) tv series:

Its New York city in 1940 something, (the show is a period piece)

Wesley Dodds is the son of the late wealthy investor Edward Dodds. (Not saying Colin Hanks should play him but wouldn't be against it, but just giving an idea how it could look). He inherited his family's fortune.
He is married to Dian Dodds, (formerly Dian Belmont) the daughter of the district attorney and an author. They are newly married (a year or year and a half maybe), but she knows all about his secret life. They deeply love each other and often show it, and love working together, especially on cases.

But little does anyone suspect that Wesley and Dian have actually been secretly investigating and solving crimes, and that Wesley is New York's Sandman.

Wesley and Dian work together as detectives, solving serious crimes and mysteries (some that seem unnatural). They ask questions, Dian talks to people, Wesley contacts his friend on the police force, and Wesley takes it to the streets as the masked vigilante Sandman, using only his wits, his training he received during his time in the orient, and his supply of various gasses.

The show would be like one of those hour long murder mysteries, like Masterpiece Mystery with Miss Marple or Poirot, a period piece.
Like Smallville they would stay away, for the most part from super characters and stick mostly with non powered characters and more human crimes. Although the crimes or style of the criminals can become some what eccentric, where they wear a mask or somewhat of a costume with names like "the Butcher" or Dr. Death", the "Gambler" or the "Anarchist." But sometimes they are just criminals, gangsters, robbers, killers. A guy who hired some thugs to steal his insured statue for the insurance money and in the process got three people murdered.
Wearing masks and costumes, but no powers and no super stuff
like in the comics. More subdued and down to earth

Masterpiece Mysteries, a great example of how
the Sandman Mystery Theater TV series could look:
(Just imagine putting Wesley and Dian in those mystery shows)

The stories would usually be resolved in an hour. Wesley is usually compelled by bad dreams sparking him to go solve crimes, the dreams wouldn't have the be a major part of the story however, not like he is only solving crimes until he stops having bad dreams, leaving the audience to wonder when he will finally stop having these bad dreams. The cast would include, Wesley and Dian of coarse, the friend on the police force that Wesley knows (who may know his secret identity), and various other friends and acquaintances. Maybe some rich friends, other cops or attorneys, someone who works for the newspaper, something like that. Shows would usually feature one case, and the episode would be titled after cases like Tarantula, etc. If the script called for it the show could even tackle such issues as sexism and racism.
I have all these ideas for the show, but am not sure I am getting them across appropriately. So I might add more later.

Any thoughts about a Sandman Mystery Theater show?

If they re going to do a superhero TV series, then why change the costumes? I cant stand seeing Clark dressed like Neo in Smallville when Green Arrow or Hawkman have their comicbook costumes. WTF?

If you re gonna do a superhero TV series, then go all out.

Not a lot of difference here. Changes would have to be made though, just like how Batman has always had some sort of rubbery armor. (with Dark Knight looking the best so far).

 

[The Englishman]

If they re going to do a superhero TV series, then why change the costumes? I cant stand seeing Clark dressed like Neo in Smallville when Green Arrow or Hawkman have their comicbook costumes. WTF?

If you re gonna do a superhero TV series, then go all out.

I agree with this, we dont need changes,go all out and have the proper costume. Theres no need to be ashamed of the costumes that the characters wear like the original showrunners of smallville were, otherwise theres no point...