DC Relaunching Everything?

[Nightwing Z]

Just to get my opinion in there, I think the Batman books are better than they've been in years, and the Morrison-run feels really inspired, and I think it would be a shame to throw all that out the window.

Sure, I get why so many of you want Bruce as your one and only Batman, but I feel the way it's evolved over the last few years seems like the natural evolution of all characters and I think Dick has deserved the mantle after all these years. I don't want to read the same Batman-story over and over again, I like to read a story that has consequences and is constantly evolving. However, I am positive of the reboot, I just hope they have something really good in store for us, and not just some cheap way of getting new readers.

And as a sidenote, I think Damian is a really great addition to the Bat-family so I guess I'm one of the few rooting for his survival.

And a sidenote to the sidenote...sort of. The Jim Lee redesigns are really lame, the recent Batman design is waaay better.

Agree. Agree. Agree.
Dick has earned the mantle, and they wipe it out. Damian is an excellent addition to the family, and they wipe it out. The next time they do it, I won't be surprised that they wipe out Alfred. -_-

 

[HighFivingMF]

Well, the current Alfred is a rebooted character.

 

[Nightwing Z]

No, I mean, they literally wipe him out, like he never existed, and gets replaced by some weird dude.

 

[roach]

Agree. Agree. Agree.
Dick has earned the mantle, and they wipe it out. Damian is an excellent addition to the family, and they wipe it out. The next time they do it, I won't be surprised that they wipe out Alfred. -_-

no one is being wiped out

 

[Kurosawa]

Just to get my opinion in there, I think the Batman books are better than they've been in years, and the Morrison-run feels really inspired, and I think it would be a shame to throw all that out the window.

Sure, I get why so many of you want Bruce as your one and only Batman, but I feel the way it's evolved over the last few years seems like the natural evolution of all characters and I think Dick has deserved the mantle after all these years. I don't want to read the same Batman-story over and over again, I like to read a story that has consequences and is constantly evolving. However, I am positive of the reboot, I just hope they have something really good in store for us, and not just some cheap way of getting new readers.

And as a sidenote, I think Damian is a really great addition to the Bat-family so I guess I'm one of the few rooting for his survival.

And a sidenote to the sidenote...sort of. The Jim Lee redesigns are really lame, the recent Batman design is waaay better.

See, I'm obviously the biggest old fart fan on here, but I absolutely love the current status of the Batman family and Batman INC. Dick is probably my favorite Bat-character, and I love that he's Gotham's Batman. I think Damien is a great character in the Namor/Quicksilver/Vegeta tradition. He's soooo snotty and he's hilarious. I love it when Bruce refers to Dick, Tim and Damien as "the boys", and the whole setup with Alfred as the grandfather figure, Bruce the patriarch, Dick the #1 son, Tim the family brainiac, Jason as the black sheep, and Damien as the family brat is just brilliant. I do NOT want a return to the Bruce is the only Batman/Dick is Nightwing, etc status quo. I don't even think Babs needs to be Batgirl, although I do want her to walk again. She could easily do her hacking/info thing and do field work and still be the Oracle, which is an awesome codename. I love to see characters grow, it's the constant screwing around with their past that irritates me.

 

[antsman41]

See, I'm obviously the biggest old fart fan on here, but I absolutely love the current status of the Batman family and Batman INC. Dick is probably my favorite Bat-character, and I love that he's Gotham's Batman. I think Damien is a great character in the Namor/Quicksilver/Vegeta tradition. He's soooo snotty and he's hilarious. I love it when Bruce refers to Dick, Tim and Damien as "the boys", and the whole setup with Alfred as the grandfather figure, Bruce the patriarch, Dick the #1 son, Tim the family brainiac, Jason as the black sheep, and Damien as the family brat is just brilliant. I do NOT want a return to the Bruce is the only Batman/Dick is Nightwing, etc status quo. I don't even think Babs needs to be Batgirl, although I do want her to walk again. She could easily do her hacking/info thing and do field work and still be the Oracle, which is an awesome codename. I love to see characters grow, it's the constant screwing around with their past that irritates me.

THISx1000000 is why Batman rules and is the best. I've been so happy over the last 20 years watching all of this go on and grow/change...

 

[Franklin Richards]

Forget it. Comics want to make money. You the average comic reader are already in their pockets. The general audience fears change. They want everything to be wrapped up in a bow at the end of the arc and then everything return to the status quo at the end.

And to be honest that's the way I like it. I don't want the FF with She Hulk. I don't want the FF with Luke Cage. I don't want the FF with Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Spider-man, and The Hulk. I want the FF I know and like and I want them every month.

Just like I want Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Diana Prince, and Hal Jordan. I'm not interested in their evolution. I'm interested in their adventures. Every month. Like clockwork.

 

[antsman41]

Well, the current Alfred is a rebooted character.

Only thing that has ever worked for the better.

Just imagine if we still had that fat sherlock holmes rip-off called Alfred...

 

[Kurosawa]

Only thing that has ever worked for the better.

Just imagine if we still had that fat sherlock holmes rip-off called Alfred...

Well, it was not really a reboot, as it was explained in the comics that Alfred had lost weight, but he was still mostly a comic relief character at the time:

Almost every superhero had either a kid sidekick like Robin, Bucky and Sandy at that time, or they had a comic relief sidekick like Woozy Winks, Doiby Dickles, Etta Candy, Percival Popp, etc. Flash had 3 sidekicks who were ripoffs of the Three Stooges. Batman happened to have both a kid sidekick and a comedic sidekick. Superman, on the other hand, had neither. Most of them were rip-offs of Lou Costello. The worst/most unfortunate one was ironically in what was maybe the best Golden Age superhero comic, Captain Marvel Adventures, Billy Batson had a very insulting valet named Steamboat. He was worse than Ebony White from the Spirit. The character was so bad that Fawcett ended un dropping him upon protests from the NAACP and replacing him with a white character from the Adventures of Captain Marvel movie serial, a character ironically named Whitey.

There was also some insanely racist stuff in Timely's books, not just Japanese stereotypes but some really disgusting racist black sidekick characters.

 

[Dreadstar]

SO whats the point of this reboot?
They did this in 1986 with the original crisis!
Then AGAIN in FINAL CRISIS!
Then brightest day!

They don't seem to know WTF they are doing.

Whats the point of relaunching Legion/Green Arrow/etc? These books are going to end and get relaunched again!!!!
All this is is DCs heroes reborn! Why would I buy these books when I KNOW that in a few years it will all be done over again! How many times can read the same stories?
And I get that DC wants to attract new readers. But not at the expense of your bread and butter established readers. This is incredibly stupid!

 

[Kurosawa]

SO whats the point of this reboot?
They did this in 1986 with the original crisis!
Then AGAIN in FINAL CRISIS!
Then brightest day!

They don't seem to know WTF they are doing. I AM DONE!

ALl this is is DCs heroes reborn! Why would I buy these books when I KNOW that in a few years it will all be done over again! How many times can read the same stories?

And I get that DC wants to attract new readers. But not at the expense of your bread and butter established readers. This is incredibly stupid!

Yeah, as I've said before, this is a case of trying to have their cake and eat it too. And it's what they've done since COIE. They have great stuff going like Batman INC and the classic Legion back, and they have crap going and this reboot is just going to be another mess. I think they should have at least kept the very best stuff going with the current continuity (Batman INC, LOSH, Green Lantern, etc) and do an Ultimates route for the rest. Instead it looks like they'll have Batman INC but with Dick as Nightwing and Tim as Robin and no Damien and Babs as Batgirl and maybe Jason dead, none of which makes much sense, as Babs was never Batgirl when Tim was Robin. It's such a huge clusterpluck.

 

[JNX]

I doubt Supergirl will be erased forever. There is a possibility that they ll erase her for now, only to reintroduce her a bit later like they did a few years ago.

Thing is that they want to have a girly book for the girls and SG is probably gonna be it. I heard that they re getting rid of midriffs (good) and skirts (bad), so if she stays prepare for a massive facepalm when you see her suit.

Personally, i'm hoping that she'll be leading the Titans (or YJ or whatever they re gonna call the team), along with Damian, Jaime, Miss Martian, Blaqualad, and perhaps one or two more guys/girls.

I would like Supergirl and Superboy to return at some point in the relaunch.

I wouldn't be opposed to costume redesigns for either, but I do hope they come back.

I often find the "next generation" type characters to be more interesting than the "originals."

 

[stillanerd]

From Rich Johnson at Bleeding Cool:

I thought just ignoring this would be the best approach, but it seems to be taking a rather viral life of its own, so probably best to try and put it out of its misery.

I first saw a version of the following early in the week, passed to me by a fellow reporter, asking me to look into it for them. It purported to be have been sourced from a certain comic store owner who had talked to Geoff Johns on the phone.

In a nutshell, the owner of xxxxxx here in xxxxxxx, received a call from Geoff Johns 2 months ago preparing him for what was coming.

Essentially from what I was told, its a full on reboot. They’re starting everything over, the marriage is OMD’d. And nothing’s really getting an ending unless they found a way to get it done by July. Wondering why Batman Inc’s had all the delays? Cause Grant’s rewriting everything to do his best to wrap it all up by July, cause the book’s not continuing!

The orders came from above Didio/Johns/Lee. The 3 of them plus Morrisson have been trying to stop this for months but to no avail. I have no idea if Diane Nelson also came up with it, but I’m tending to think she did.

As to why this is happening?: Apparently the higher ups are sick of seeing Marvel constantly take the market share every month from DC and they’re convinced this is how they’re going to take the lead. There’s talk of if this doesn’t work TW going to more drastic measures but that’s really a leap at this time so I won’t repeat them yet.

But TW knows they’re going to lose a lot of long time readers over this and they’ve got Didio and Johns unfortunately doing damage control that neither of them really want to do. There’s already been other writers and artists who really don’t want to be a part of this “movement” either so we’ll see who all the people are doing these new books.

It seemed ludicrous, contradicting aspects I previously thought were true as well as basic business common sense, but the details of the Batman Inc book being rushed to conclusion, less than half way through the planned twenty-four issues seemed a convincing detail. So I asked.

The comic store owner denied it. Senior DC executives denied it. DC ground troop creators denied it. People I trust who have never led me wrong denied it. And then JMS gave his version of the origins of the DC Relaunch that totally contradicted it.

But the piece started to pop up on website after website and website after website. It wasn’t going away. In fact it was growing.

Well let’s see if we can put a stop to it. This idea was not imposed upon DiDio, Johns and Lee. For better or for worse, it’s all theirs…

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06...-conspiracy-that-just-happens-not-to-be-true/

 

[roach]

SO whats the point of this reboot?
They did this in 1986 with the original crisis!
Then AGAIN in FINAL CRISIS!
Then brightest day!

They don't seem to know WTF they are doing.

Whats the point of relaunching Legion/Green Arrow/etc? These books are going to end and get relaunched again!!!!
All this is is DCs heroes reborn! Why would I buy these books when I KNOW that in a few years it will all be done over again! How many times can read the same stories?
And I get that DC wants to attract new readers. But not at the expense of your bread and butter established readers. This is incredibly stupid!

its not a reboot

 

[Mr. Earle]

I thought Johns, Lee and Didio were the highest guys in DC. Did this order come from WB?

 

[Mr. Earle]

SO whats the point of this reboot?
They did this in 1986 with the original crisis!
Then AGAIN in FINAL CRISIS!
Then brightest day!

They don't seem to know WTF they are doing.

Whats the point of relaunching Legion/Green Arrow/etc? These books are going to end and get relaunched again!!!!

Did you even read Final Crisis and Brightest Day? They were just team up stories, not retcons or reboots.

All this is is DCs heroes reborn! Why would I buy these books when I KNOW that in a few years it will all be done over again! How many times can read the same stories?
And I get that DC wants to attract new readers. But not at the expense of your bread and butter established readers. This is incredibly stupid!

Because supposedly they ll be telling the story differently an in a more modern way, whatever that means. I kind of agree with you, though, it will probably be somewhat the same.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought Johns, Lee and Didio were the highest guys in DC. Did this order come from WB?

Top creative people, I believe. But the aforementioned Diane Nelson is president after they restructured DC into DC Entertainment, so she outranks all of them.

Regardless, though, it seems like Johnston was just confirming that she didn't actually have anything to do with the relaunch. It's a creative decision on the parts of DiDio, Johns, and Lee, according to all his trusted sources in that article.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well it says at the bottom of the quote it was in fact Didio/Johns/Lee who made the decision.

If so, and the rest of the article about it being a proper line wide reboot and forcing creators to change their stories is true, gives me another reason to hate DC Editorial.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Johns' involvement makes me think they're going to cherry-pick a lot of established continuity. The guy loves nothing more than homaging everything he likes about characters' histories and either ignoring or steamrolling right over the rest.

Also, in case anyone was as curious as I was about what he meant with that "JMS' version" thing, here's the link to Johnston's coverage of that:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/03/the-secret-origins-of-the-dc-relaunch/

JMS claims "end to end, top to bottom, front to back, this is Dan's dream."

 

[Zionite]

Cherry picking continuity defeats the whole purpose of a reboot.However I understand they dont wanna loose the work they have done with Batman and Gl.Ny answerto them is not to rest continuity but fastforward

 

[Kitsune]

Well, it was not really a reboot, as it was explained in the comics that Alfred had lost weight, but he was still mostly a comic relief character at the time:

Almost every superhero had either a kid sidekick like Robin, Bucky and Sandy at that time, or they had a comic relief sidekick like Woozy Winks, Doiby Dickles, Etta Candy, Percival Popp, etc. Flash had 3 sidekicks who were ripoffs of the Three Stooges. Batman happened to have both a kid sidekick and a comedic sidekick. Superman, on the other hand, had neither. Most of them were rip-offs of Lou Costello. The worst/most unfortunate one was ironically in what was maybe the best Golden Age superhero comic, Captain Marvel Adventures, Billy Batson had a very insulting valet named Steamboat. He was worse than Ebony White from the Spirit. The character was so bad that Fawcett ended un dropping him upon protests from the NAACP and replacing him with a white character from the Adventures of Captain Marvel movie serial, a character ironically named Whitey.

There was also some insanely racist stuff in Timely's books, not just Japanese stereotypes but some really disgusting racist black sidekick characters.

There was a 1943 Batman Movie Serial where Alfred was thin and had a thin mustache... the change in the comic was meant to match the character in the movies.

 

[SuperFerret]

It's likely not going to be a reboot, but another streamlining series of retcons that will themselves be retconned.

 

[Tron Bonne]

You know, I just thought of this, but do we really need two threads about this? There's that 'how do you feel about the relaunch' thread where people are essentially saying the exact same things. Maybe we should close one or merge them both into an 'Official DC Relaunch' thread or something.

 

[Zionite]

I would like Supergirl and Superboy to return at some point in the relaunch.

I wouldn't be opposed to costume redesigns for either, but I do hope they come back.

I often find the "next generation" type characters to be more interesting than the "originals."

Exactly.This is why I say they should not reset continuity but fastforward it in a way that all most of the younger Gen as replaced the older.
Although I dont find Conner as an interesting Superman-Id rather see Someone else-maybe an actual son of Superman take the mantle

 

[Primal Slayer]

so......with this relaunch or reboot........what's going to happen to characters like Kara Supergirl or Cassandra Cain?

are they now going to be wiped out of existence?

I doubtthey will be getting rid of her for now in this half reboot. She really doesnt mess with Supermans stories that much, same with Conner.