DC's Definitive Joker origin

[GrendelPrime32]

damn, now y'all got me jonesin for a bill sienkewicz bat story! other than bats #400 cover, has he done any other batstuff? besides $100 headshots at cons? and does anyone have any of those to scan? and have y'all read his protoge Al Columbia? Doghead, the Biologic Show...There's a guy I'd like to see do a bats vs scarecrow story. nightmares come Alive under his pen...

 

[Spider-Bat]

Eh, might be good I guess. Though I like Joker's background to be more of a mystery, like in Killing Joke.

Agreed. They're just doing this to hype the next movie.

 

[Motown Marvel]

damn, now y'all got me jonesin for a bill sienkewicz bat story! other than bats #400 cover, has he done any other batstuff? besides $100 headshots at cons? and does anyone have any of those to scan? and have y'all read his protoge Al Columbia? Doghead, the Biologic Show...There's a guy I'd like to see do a bats vs scarecrow story. nightmares come Alive under his pen...

he's got something in one of the first two volumes of batman black and white. and i know he's done some ink work on some bat books where his style clearly shows through.

 

[GrendelPrime32]

cool, i'll check out the b&w, and if u think of any of the ones he inked, please lemme know. although when i pictured it, i was thinking of his painted work, like Stray Toasters or Elektra Assassin. but i'll take what i can get. Thanks for the headsup!

 

[Infinity9999x]

^ yep let's say again...it's not a rewrite, cuz it was never written



Anyone who's actually read this care to fill us in?

Yes it has, TKJ is canon, and as far as I know isn't Hush Returns as well? And if that wasn't his origin written out...well, then I don't know what was.

 

[Nepenthes]

^ Just because Riddler mentions it once (and rather vaguely I might add) it doesn't mean it's completely accepted. It's something for fans and writers to decide and the majority will say 'no'. Riddler is merely talking about something he 'thinks' is true- which is the nature of Joker's origin as well as TJK, it's all hypotheses.

The recent Dini Tec issue had the line "I've heard he was a failed comedian just as often as I've heard he was always a monster". So who is right? Dini or Loeb?

I also think this story, no matter how hard it attempts to be concrete and definitive, will end up the same- in the hands of fans and future writers. Just another option.

 

[Joker]

actually, in Hush Returns there's an entire flashback where Riddler sees the Jokers wife get killed, and see's the Joker right after he got his chemical bath...so, that's a bit more than being vaugley mentioned once

 

[TwilightPro101]

actually, in Hush Returns there's an entire flashback where Riddler sees the Jokers wife get killed, and see's the Joker right after he got his chemical bath...so, that's a bit more than being vaugley mentioned once

Note to self: check out HUSH RETURNS.

 

[BubbaGump]

actually, in Hush Returns there's an entire flashback where Riddler sees the Jokers wife get killed, and see's the Joker right after he got his chemical bath...so, that's a bit more than being vaugley mentioned once

Wow, that really made me want to read Hush Returns again...

Wait. Ok, the feeling's gone now.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Note to self: check out HUSH RETURNS.

you actually kinda dont want to do that....that storyline sucked.

 

[CConn]

Horribly.

 

[itsthebatman]

Note to self: check out HUSH RETURNS.

Note to Twilight: don't bother.

 

[TheMadHatter]

^good thing i read this, i just finished the 2 volumes of hush and was thinkin about pickin up hush returns

 

[Joker]

oh yeah, Hush Returns sucked, except for the Joker/Riddler/Hush stuff, which they actually never elaborated on (Joker comes back near the end of the overall arc with some lame pacemakers that explode scheme, but we never hear anything about his wifes killer). It could have been great though, if they would focused it more on Joker being incredibly pissed off after getting his ass handed to him by Hush at the beginning, and their rivalry ripping Gotham up, pissing off not only Batman, but also Black Mask who was running all the crime at the time. The two guys who consider themseleves the only ones deserving of killing Batman at war with each other, Hush with Prometheus, and Joker with his sideshow freaks and Harley. It could have been great, but sadly, it was mediocre at best. The Bermejo covers were nice though

 

[Two-Face]

What if DC says Joker's name is Jack Napier?

 

[Joker]

DC already had...well, Jack at least, in Hush Returns...we don't know his last name

 

[Keyser Soze]

I saw the TPB of "Hush Returns" in the comic store. I wasn't sure whether to get it or not. I wasn't sure if getting to read the really interesting stuff with The Joker was worth the really bland stuff going on elsewhere. I decided not to get it for now.

 

[Ibn]

no, not really. i believe in the killing joke, joker says something about enjoying the idea of his past being multiple choice. so, TKJ would still easily fit in continuity...only the story told of jokers origin would be a fabrication on jokers behalf.

See I think that sucks though.

 

[lixdexia]

not sure if this is the right thread but...on the name thing for joker, it was jack napier in TAS. it's in his file on joker's wild from season 2

 

[Joker]

They changed that though, it was either in Mask of the Phantasm or th elast season of it they had Jack Napier listed as an alias, with his real name unknown

 

[The Shredder]

not sure if this is the right thread but...on the name thing for joker, it was jack napier in TAS. it's in his file on joker's wild from season 2

I believe the name, Jack Napier was also mentioned in another episode of TAS where Batman is held inside Arkham. A doctor is going over the names of Batman's rogues gallery, and Jack Napier is mentioned. Although this may, or may not have been done because of the Burton films, but apparently Timm and company liked the Jack Napier gangster idea (much like Alex Ross) since that angle was apart of the Phantasm film.

 

[Rockbottom]

Well the way i see it, Jack Napier is the best name they can pick at this point in time. If they ever do pick one.

 

[BubbaGump]

I believe the name, Jack Napier was also mentioned in another episode of TAS where Batman is held inside Arkham. A doctor is going over the names of Batman's rogues gallery, and Jack Napier is mentioned. Although this may, or may not have been done because of the Burton films, but apparently Timm and company liked the Jack Napier gangster idea (much like Alex Ross) since that angle was apart of the Phantasm film.

It was in the episode Dreams in Darkness. However, Jack Napier was never named directly in Phantasm. And TAS is somewhat in Burton continuity (Joker, Penguin).

 

[Two-Face]

DC already had...well, Jack at least, in Hush Returns...we don't know his last name

Ok then, Joker is Jack Napier after all.

 

[The Shredder]

It was in the episode Dreams in Darkness. However, Jack Napier was never named directly in Phantasm. And TAS is somewhat in Burton continuity (Joker, Penguin).

Ah, yes. Dreams of Darkness. Thanks!

I'm aware that the name Jack Napier is never once mentioned in Phantasm. Though it's evident that Timm and crew took a liking to the idea of The Joker being a mobster before the big dip, which is what I commented on. With Alex Ross being another who has openly said before that he felt the Burton Jack Napier/Joker origin was in some ways superior to what we saw in The Killing Joke. Because he felt it was more credible. However, with TAS being in continuity with the Burton films, I'm not so sure about that. Sure, TAS has certain elements of the Burton films, which I'm sure was encouraged by WB, and which TAS never could have done if not for the darker tone Burton brought to the Batman films, but I personally never viewed the show as something that was set in continuity with Batman 1989 & Batman Returns.