Detective Pikachu

[MadVillainy]

No, not yet, at least not when it got more than double its production budget in three weeks.

Maybe if it doesn't hit $400 million by the mid of its second month it may be cancelled. Marketing alone was probably some financial nightmare.

You think? I can't imagine it's anything like anightmare

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder what lessons need to be learned for the next one then? I reckon just not going up against endgame would do.

I reckon it will do really well with tv/streaming. Maybe people felt too embarrassed asking for a ticket to Detective pikachu

 

[Abudefduf]

think the sequel is going to be cancelled now?

I don't know but the Mewtwo spin-off is dead, that's for sure.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Maybe the lesson is, Endgame or not, the box office this has gotten was the box office it was always going to get? That the name recognition of this franchise while important to SOME in a certain demo was never going to translate into an easy $1 billion? That whether this featured Ash or Team Rocket it would still not garner crazy crossover praise unless it was made with Pixar level care, which would still mean doing something that would by its nature be more complex than the gym battle story the hard core wanted?

In other words, while a valuable IP as a film franchise the Pokemon name was never going to be enough to make this or any movie based on Pokemon more than at best a solid but not especially profitable movie?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Maybe the lesson is, Endgame or not, the box office this has gotten was the box office it was always going to get? That the name recognition of this franchise while important to SOME in a certain demo was never going to translate into an easy $1 billion? That whether this featured Ash or Team Rocket it would still not garner crazy crossover praise unless it was made with Pixar level care, which would still mean doing something that would by its nature be more complex than the gym battle story the hard core wanted?

In other words, while a valuable IP as a film franchise the Pokemon name was never going to be enough to make this or any movie based on Pokemon more than at best a solid but not especially profitable movie?

I think it probably would have done better with some more distance from Endgame, that film was a monster at the box office and was all anyone was talking about even when Pikachu came out, no other film was gonna be able to have any sort of event film status with Endgame standing in the way so I think that definitely hurt it, and the film wasn't well enough received for the people that saw it to rave about it and give it longer box office legs with repeat viewings and recommendations to other people. I will agree though that Pokemon fans tend to vastly overestimate just how popular Pokemon really is, I would have been very surprised if this had made a billion even without any competition.

 

[psylockolussus]

I wonder what lessons need to be learned for the next one then? I reckon just not going up against endgame would do.

I reckon it will do really well with tv/streaming. Maybe people felt too embarrassed asking for a ticket to Detective pikachu

More Pokemon in non minor/extra roles.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I wonder what lessons need to be learned for the next one then? I reckon just not going up against endgame would do.

I reckon it will do really well with tv/streaming. Maybe people felt too embarrassed asking for a ticket to Detective pikachu

Eh... No one felt chagrined at having to buy tickets to 3 films named TOY STORY, films literally about toys. I think that simply put, the appeal of a Pokemon live action film never had the width or depth fans assumed among the general audience. While many of a certain age might have played the various games or watched the show as a kid the majority kind of left it at that, something they enjoyed and did as kids. Sure, you had a good number of adults playing Pokemon Go a few years back but even if they did so regularly and had fun taking part... I suspect a lot of ironic detachment while doing so. There needed to be a much, much DEEPER connection to this IP for it to have cracked the ceiling it stopped at BO wise, I think.

And this might be a function of the franchise itself. As a story, with Pokemon... There's not a lot of "there" there, so to speak. Whatever fans feel it can be or is about... Is pretty boilerplate. "It's about friendship and working together!" Oh, really? AND? That's like... Well most every film project aimed at kids for the last 40 years. The characters are not these well developed and unique things.

It's a bit of a catch 22. You go and add depth to these things and the fanbase yells "Betrayal! You are overthinking this! It's supposed to be pure!" But if you don't do that... The general audience goes, "Ah... Another bland thing for kids. Well... Okay." There's nothing engaging or compelling as fans think there is to hook in everyone else who isn't already a die hard fan.

I feel this is similar to the Power Rangers issue. In a way, this film and the Power Rangers movie? Both felt to me like they were about as good as those two properties were ever really going to be adapted into live action. Despite the nostalgia factor... These things have never really been about anything. The appeal isn't something that translates into anything that can carry a film all that well without adding a layer of complexity that in itself goes against what fans are so enamored of in the first place. And the franchises themselves have nothing in the source that's really all that amazing in terms of storytelling or characters. Neither was something that grew into entertainments that had anything to say about anything, least of all the characters themselves. I'm not saying that they need to tackly like, real world issues or the like, or be "grim and gritty" (whatever that means as a criticism since that' something of a buzz term folk like to just throw around...) but... They have to be more than just the silly entertainments they were originally conceived as to pass muster as modern films or at least offer something more. Which is hard when A. There's not much there to work with to begin with and B. The fans will scream bloody murder whenever alterations, even needed ones, are enacted on their beloved childhood franchise.

 

[Luigi]

Haven't played the games since Gen III but I had a blast with this film.

Spoiler

The callback to the anime with the kick activating Magikarp's evolution had me rolling. Extra points for making Ditto appropriately horrifying.

 

[MadVillainy]

Eh... No one felt chagrined at having to buy tickets to 3 films named TOY STORY, films literally about toys. I think that simply put, the appeal of a Pokemon live action film never had the width or depth fans assumed among the general audience. While many of a certain age might have played the various games or watched the show as a kid the majority kind of left it at that, something they enjoyed and did as kids. Sure, you had a good number of adults playing Pokemon Go a few years back but even if they did so regularly and had fun taking part... I suspect a lot of ironic detachment while doing so. There needed to be a much, much DEEPER connection to this IP for it to have cracked the ceiling it stopped at BO wise, I think.

And this might be a function of the franchise itself. As a story, with Pokemon... There's not a lot of "there" there, so to speak. Whatever fans feel it can be or is about... Is pretty boilerplate. "It's about friendship and working together!" Oh, really? AND? That's like... Well most every film project aimed at kids for the last 40 years. The characters are not these well developed and unique things.

It's a bit of a catch 22. You go and add depth to these things and the fanbase yells "Betrayal! You are overthinking this! It's supposed to be pure!" But if you don't do that... The general audience goes, "Ah... Another bland thing for kids. Well... Okay." There's nothing engaging or compelling as fans think there is to hook in everyone else who isn't already a die hard fan.

I feel this is similar to the Power Rangers issue. In a way, this film and the Power Rangers movie? Both felt to me like they were about as good as those two properties were ever really going to be adapted into live action. Despite the nostalgia factor... These things have never really been about anything. The appeal isn't something that translates into anything that can carry a film all that well without adding a layer of complexity that in itself goes against what fans are so enamored of in the first place. And the franchises themselves have nothing in the source that's really all that amazing in terms of storytelling or characters. Neither was something that grew into entertainments that had anything to say about anything, least of all the characters themselves. I'm not saying that they need to tackly like, real world issues or the like, or be "grim and gritty" (whatever that means as a criticism since that' something of a buzz term folk like to just throw around...) but... They have to be more than just the silly entertainments they were originally conceived as to pass muster as modern films or at least offer something more. Which is hard when A. There's not much there to work with to begin with and B. The fans will scream bloody murder whenever alterations, even needed ones, are enacted on their beloved childhood franchise.

I don't agree with this at all. This and PR aren't as good as the franchises can be by a long shot.
The problem here is that they didn't give people, not just fans, what they want. Power Rangers focused way more on the teen drama stuff rather than what people wanted: Great martial arts scenes and giant robot fighting. And the CGI looked terrible. With Pokemon, I'm sure the movie would've fared better if they did a :Gotta Catch Them All: type story. Not even necessarily with Ash, but just some character going to catch Pokemon and battling with them. That's what people recognize and love most about Pokemon; not going around solving a major conspiracy. I said before Detective Pikachu seems like an anthology film in a shared universe instead of a main episode.

I mean Transformers used to be just a giant toy commercial and wasn't really about anything. But they turned that into a very successful franchise regardless of what i think of it's quality. And they did that by giving people what they want. Robots fighting and humor. Of course they ran out their goodwill by their films getting worse and worse. But the point still stands.
21 Jump Street was a, successful, but silly series and spawned 2 of the most loved comedy movies of the 2010s

Really we live in a time where characters who were C list, in the public's eye before the movie, Deadpool outgross an A Listers like Superman. Hell, we had D list characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy outgross Wolverine and the whole Justice League. Even a franchise like Fast and Furious which is just dumb and about so little, are some of the highest grossing films of the year. And they did that by giving people what they want. It has very little to do with what you're source material is.

Bringing this back to Pokemon and even Power Rangers. You don't need to add complexity, just find a way to bring what people love about the franchise to the big show. Saying "they never been about anything" seems to be a silly argument and just kinda un-creative

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Movie shows in the closest theater to my house 10 days from now. I thought ut was shown here and was done with.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I’m having doubts we will get a sequel.

 

[pixen]

I’m having doubts we will get a sequel.

It kind of doesn’t end with a sequel option...

Spoiler

The dads soul/voice isn’t in Pikachu anymore. I feel like it’s a one off and could lead to a different movie based on the gym leader/team rocket life in Red/Blue.

 

[Karelia]

Well coming into this thread has been a bit of a bummer. I thought this film would have easily made enough to warrant a sequel, or at least another Pokemon movie. I enjoyed it a lot.

 

[jnmx2000]

Studios or people thinking that a movie is going to do a billion dollars is insane, just because marvel turns out billion dollar films NOW doesn't mean every major property can do the same. Until the first Avengers movie Marvel didn't have a billion dollar movie and they didn't have another one until Iron Man 3 and then the third was Age of Ultron.

That's 3 movies in the span of 11. Most of the other films sit around the 500 million mark, especially in the beginning.

Studios need to realize they need to build a brand before they brake the bank with a big budget 150-200 million dollar megamovie. That's why Marvel has succeeded.

Pokemon just needs to scale it down and introduce the world to the property. Make another one but do it for 120 instead of 150. The films don't need to end in some gigantic action sequence, the relationship between the trainers and the pokemon can be strong enough to carry the films, that's why marvel is so successful now, we love those characters, the action is nice but we show up for the characters.

 

[samsnee]

Did people really expect this to make a billion? Talk about unrealistic expectations. I thought $500M was reasonable if it was actually really good.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Did people really expect this to make a billion? Talk about unrealistic expectations. I thought $500M was reasonable if it was actually really good.

$500 million may still be achievable, looks like there are some theaters that haven't had this movie yet.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This movie will pass up 400m pretty easily, and doesn't have the biggest budget. Also you must consider how much they are making off merchandising

 

[jnmx2000]

Did people really expect this to make a billion? Talk about unrealistic expectations. I thought $500M was reasonable if it was actually really good.

There were some people. I also didn't realize the movie cost 150 million to make. That's to much for a first time live action pokemon movie. WB did it right with Shazam, that cost 100 million to make and grossed 362 million WW so that's a win, a small one but it was well received and it's primed for a sequel but they can't wait to long.

Pikachu is in a good spot with 400 million WW and they announced the movie was successful enough for them to make a detective pikachu sequel game so the merch moved through the film was also successful. The only question is now that the GA has seen a live action pokemon movie do they want more is one enough? I know I want more but does the GA?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This movie will pass up 400m pretty easily, and doesn't have the biggest budget. Also you must consider how much they are making off merchandising

I don't count merchandise in ticket sales.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't count merchandise in ticket sales.

Well of course. But those who own the merchandise rights most certainly do. Frozen 2 isn't happening because of the box office. It is happening because it made billions in merch. Billions. And that is basically pure profit for Disney.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Well, no, it is happening because of box office. Merch just helps too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, no, it is happening because of box office. Merch just helps too.

They made more in merch for the first film then they will make on 5 Frozens. They are still making money off it. They dropped a Frozen ride in record time because of it. There is a reason Galaxy's Edge is built the way it is. In terms of profits for Disney, it is all about the merch and park entries. Why sequels to even their most beloved properties in theaters is rare. They can't just make them hundreds of millions. They need to make billions.

 

[DarkKnight88]

And who do you think is buying the merch? Those who saw it in theatres. Low box office? Low merch. So, yes, box office is the reason we’re getting a sequel. People who actually saw the movie.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And who do you think is buying the merch? Those who saw it in theatres. Low box office? Low merch. So, yes, box office is the reason we’re getting a sequel. People who actually saw the movie.

The reach of the Disney brand extends far beyond the run the theater. It is why the half life on merch can be so long. People who have never seen Frozen or only saw it after it's theatrical run buy merch for themselves, friends and loved ones.

This is the same with Pokemon.I shudder to think of how much Detective Pikachu merch they have sold at this point. Stuff like Frozen and Pokemon live outside of their original productions. You kind of have to, to have actual wedding themed services based around the intellectual property.

https://kotaku.com/you-can-now-have-official-pokemon-weddings-in-japan-1835106641

 

[Jonwo]

There were some people. I also didn't realize the movie cost 150 million to make. That's to much for a first time live action pokemon movie. WB did it right with Shazam, that cost 100 million to make and grossed 362 million WW so that's a win, a small one but it was well received and it's primed for a sequel but they can't wait to long.

Pikachu is in a good spot with 400 million WW and they announced the movie was successful enough for them to make a detective pikachu sequel game so the merch moved through the film was also successful. The only question is now that the GA has seen a live action pokemon movie do they want more is one enough? I know I want more but does the GA?

Can't blame WB on the budget as they were only the distributor, Legendary were the ones who gave the movie $150m.

I do think DP should be one film and they adapt a different game. If they want keep the talking Pokemon theme then Pokemon Mystery Dungeon fits that bill but I think a film that is based on the mainline games but not tied to a specific generation would be better.