Discussion: Evolution

[Darthphere]

define a fact then? I was just defining fact using the definition set in the study of knowledge, so if you have a better definaition, please use it....

I'm not going to go get a dictionary definition but a fact is Lincoln was the 16th President, the Earth revolves around the sun. Something concrete, that can't be refuted. Evolution is something that can, has and will be refuted. Making it a theory. I believe in evolution, but I'm not going to call it a fact.

 

[Super Kal]

well obviously a clock can't evolve into a dog thats stupid.

well, that's exactly what you're suggesting... you're telling me that life came into existence from absolute nothingness, or non-living matter...

either way, it is impossible to create life without life.

 

[Cyrusbales]

I'm not going to go get a dictionary definition but a fact is Lincoln was the 16th President, the Earth revolves around the sun. Something concrete, that can't be refuted. Evolution is something that can, has and will be refuted. Making it a theory. I believe in evolution, but I'm not going to call it a fact.

there are many different kinds of truths etc, that have been laid out by epistemologists, matter of fact, mathematical truths etc, go ahead and look up epistemology and read through the tractatus one day, it'll explain it better than I can.


And I know you're about to say "Oh, but so many kinds of truth, sounds like rubbish and impossiblity etc etc". But they are more like catergories to make comprehension of the different types of knwoledge simpler. Would you say "Germany is in Europe" is the same type of fact as "2+2=4"?

 

[hippy fascist]

well, that's exactly what you're suggesting... you're telling me that life came into existence from absolute nothingness, or non-living matter...

either way, it is impossible to create life without life.

two words...big bang

 

[Cyrusbales]

well, that's exactly what you're suggesting... you're telling me that life came into existence from absolute nothingness, or non-living matter...

either way, it is impossible to create life without life.

scientists in japan have created single cell bacteria from simple amino acids, so life, from non-life

 

[Super Kal]

two words...big bang

there's absolutely no proof that there was a big bang... it's all based on theory.

 

[Cyrusbales]

there's absolutely no proof that there was a big bang... it's all based on theory.

try red shift

 

[Darthphere]

there are many different kinds of truths etc, that have been laid out by epistemologists, matter of fact, mathematical truths etc, go ahead and look up epistemology and read through the tractatus one day, it'll explain it better than I can.


And I know you're about to say "Oh, but so many kinds of truth, sounds like rubbish and impossiblity etc etc". But they are more like catergories to make comprehension of the different types of knwoledge simpler. Would you say "Germany is in Europe" is the same type of fact as "2+2=4"?

So what you're saying is evolution isn't a fact.

I accept your apology, moving on.

 

[Super Kal]

scientists in japan have created single cell bacteria from simple amino acids, so life, from non-life

link please

 

[Cyrusbales]

So what you're saying is evolution isn't a fact.

I accept your apology, moving on.

I'm saying that BY DEFINITION, evolution is a scientific fact, as stated in the thread title.

 

[Darthphere]

I'm saying that BY DEFINITION, evolution is a scientific fact, as stated in the thread title.

And what defintion is that? Epistemology?


Using that loigc, you can say george bush being stupid is a fact. Seriously.

 

[Cyrusbales]

link please

this goes over the science of it, http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/9/1683

There is an article I'll look for that breaks it down into simpler terms...

 

[Eros]

two words...big bang

why did the big bang happen, and the big bang thoery is about how everything all matter was all clustered up together, and then exploded. Where did all this matter come from, why did it just explode? Why does it become dark during the supposed night time?

 

[mightiest_mortal]

I'm not going to go get a dictionary definition but a fact is Lincoln was the 16th President,

Did you know him? and the 15 Presidents before him? you cant possibly say its a fact that he was the 16th president when you don't actually know. I have "faith" that he wasnt the 16th president. Therefore i disaprove of you calling it a fact, and it should be considered "the Theory that lincoln was the 16th president."

Why does it become dark during the supposed night time?

are you serious?

 

[Super Kal]

this goes over the science of it, http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/9/1683

There is an article I'll look for that breaks it down into simpler terms...

lol, please do

 

[hippy fascist]

try red shift

 

[Cyrusbales]

And what defintion is that? Epistemology?


Using that loigc, you can say george bush being stupid is a fact. Seriously.

Considering that epistemoilogy is the study of knowledge, and has concerned itself with defining knowledge and it's acquisition, it is obviously going to be the most in depth definition, to simplify part of this study for you, think about what is needed to make up knowledge, a Ture justified Belief is the leading acount, only challenged by the filmsy work of Gettier which really holds no worth anyway.

Please read up before making assumptions.

 

[Darthphere]

Did you know him? and the 15 Presidents before him? you cant possibly say its a fact that he was the 16th president when you don't actually know. I have "faith" that he wasnt the 16th president. Therefore i disaprove of you calling it a fact, and it should be considered "the Theory that lincoln was the 16th president."

Oh please, what a dumb argument. Are you seriously trying to make a serious argument out of that?

 

[Darthphere]

Considering that epistemoilogy is the study of knowledge, and has concerned itself with defining knowledge and it's acquisition, it is obviously going to be the most in depth definition.

In your opinion, not a fact.

 

[Super Kal]

Oh please, what a dumb argument. Are you seriously trying to make a serious argument out of that?

I HOPE he was just making a joke...

 

[mightiest_mortal]

Oh please, what a dumb argument. Are you seriously trying to make a serious argument out of that?

Yes. Its exactly the same thing.

 

[Hades]

I wish I could have a serious arguement about clocks evolving from dogs.

I swear I seen it happen once.

 

[Cyrusbales]

why did the big bang happen, and the big bang thoery is about how everything all matter was all clustered up together, and then exploded. Where did all this matter come from, why did it just explode? Why does it become dark during the supposed night time?

it was a large scale matter, anti-mater reaction, the actual science behind it is quite taxing, but if you pick up a stephen hawking volume, it does make sense after a couple of reads

 

[Darthphere]

Yes. Its exactly the same thing.

Except its not. Because unless someone was there recording data from the moment the ooze showed up and watched the evolution of it, there is no way to prove it actually happened, unlike the thousands of record and data showing that Lincoln was the 16th President.

 

[Cyrusbales]

In your opinion, not a fact.

using the established definition of 'fact' is not my opinion, it's fact, lol.


here's an article on the nucleac properties that amino acids provide in bacteria etc, and how they form http://www3.oup.co.uk/nar/database/summary/938