Discussion: Evolution

[Buttman]

because they were hungry, just like you decide to eat whatever it is you eat... when you're hungry

Then why didn't their 'food' eat them first?

 

[Overman27pj]

Check out my take on the subject....

www.overman.info/evolutionrocks.html

 

[JokerNick_2]

but mostly because they were hungry

na-huh... sexual gratification


and because chicken, cow, and pig taste GOOD

 

[JokerNick_2]

it's all part of natural selection, if there wasn't preditors, the animal population would run rampent... it's a control that was decided through years of evolution....

 

[PLAS]

Then why didn't their 'food' eat them first?

they weren't hungry enough, or fast enough or big enough

when was the last time you saw a lion eat an elephant?

 

[Canadian Rider]

I can choose to believe Star Wars is reality. So yes it's entirely up to you what you believe, but you also "ought to" have a basis for those beliefs other than "because...that's what I think". I would say that type of belief is lazy and dangerous. If God indeed did write this Bible, and those who have studied have (and they do) come to the conclusion it's not 100% literal (which is an entirely American Western phenomena by the way) and that those who WROTE the Bible did not take it that way (which from all accounts we have -- they didn't) then it would suggest to me you in fact don't put any work at all in what you claim to be so engrossed it. A relationship of a certain God is a "religion" because that God is based in sacred texts. Anyone can create an imaginary friend and call it God...it actually takes work to understand a people's God.

This is a problem I encounter with countless Christians. Solipcism. The belief that everyone else sees "their worlds" the way they see theirs. I don't, and scientists don't see things in terms of belief. And scientists certainly don't ridicule competing theories because said theories would have to be grounded with evidence and logic...in fact it's far more likely they'd consider the theory and a new theory would come out of it. Evolution is a prime example of where competing theories and new data have led to the evolution of it as a theory.

Most scientists, and most rationalists (like myself) try to take things as little on faith as possible...so the question of belief is not even a question. We don't believe things, we seek answers to problems we pose ourselves. We try to find solutions through a tried and true method and try to be as skeptical as possible while doing so...quiet the opposite of belief.

But it does accept new ideas. Gravity as Newton purposed it is no longer applicable because of new ideas. Darwin's evolutionary theory is long outdated because of new ideas. If you think science lacks new ideas I'd have to ask you why every semester the Science books go out of edition and new ones have to be ordered. Because new ideas change the information in them.

Being in the book business I can suggest something else, but the greater idea is not what is fact, but rather what is truth?

I have studied Christ for years and studied him for years before I chose to follow him. I studied the lineage of his background in the Hebrew faith and the historical accuracy of the teaching and writings of the hebrew scribes. I did not come by it, but rather choose to research it and question it. As to whether it is literal or not, I would suggest that it is not a western idea as much as you might suggest. While there are many in the east who accept certain passages as historical rhetoric, there are many who accept that the bible is a basis for a factual account of the way that God moved to create the universe. While we may have questions about the length of his "day" I would hardly say that he did not create the earth.

My faith is based on the bible's record of the teachings of both the hebrews and early christians, but also i looked at the works of people like Josephus and other records for a balanced perspective and reliable record.

My point about Gravity is while you can explain what it is in a measurable unit, Science cannot truly explain the force behind it. I love science for all that it can do and bring to the human race. While I have a little trouble accepting many ideas put forth, I challenge them and research them to find the truth behind them.

As for scientists accepting competing views, I am glad you are so trusting of the scientific community but have read enough papers and seen enough educational programming where authors and speakers have presented their ideas to a thunderous silence to know that while it is an accepted ideal, acceptance of new ideas that challenge the norm are not as easily accepted as you may think.

I know that things were left out of God's text by man, and things were added in. The Truth was not.

God created the earth, in his time, with his plan. As time progressed, many things happened that were recorded so that we can have a record of his faithfulness as well as a way of looking for an example to keep us on a path that is of his design and desire.

His son was sent to die for my sins and yours. I know that to be the truth because his son fulfilled prophecies that were 400 years in the making, because he proved it through his resurrection and his life and the life he gave me now.

I am not a lazy christian. I am in fact the opposite. I have gone beyond the bible for references of God and sought truth in both the bible and life. I have tried to not simply accept the words of others as his truth, but rather ask what science can show me.

When I see the monkey without the kneecap and the bee flying around it gives me faith in him more than ever before.

 

[Canadian Rider]

You're either pulling this out of your ass...or have been completely lied to. The theory may and has changed...but we've only confirmed Evolution's existence and role in development in the last decades. The only debate now is how it led to create the world we know today.

And for someone not dealing in faith Shadow, I wonder how you and others can make statements like those above with a straight face.

What has evolution proved? Adaptation? No one questioned that. We see in humans that we are eventually not going to have all the toes we have now as they are not as crucial as they once were.

We can 'prove' some connections on a genetic level between ourselves and the primates, but prooving a direct 1-2-3 link?

There are some mighty big pieces of the puzzle missing so to assume you have proven the Theory is correct would be the complete picture. Without it, you are demonstrating a faith in the number "2" missing section ... that has no basis for a belief. Though to be fair, it would actually require more than just '2'. You need to create an amazing creature that does not lose limbs but rather creates specific bones for a specific purpose where none existed before.

And if ... if Evolution could show that somehow all life can from a biological goop ... how do you prove what put it there in the first place?

 

[PLAS]

As for scientists accepting competing views, I am glad you are so trusting of the scientific community but have read enough papers and seen enough educational programming where authors and speakers have presented their ideas to a thunderous silence to know that while it is an accepted ideal, acceptance of new ideas that challenge the norm are not as easily accepted as you may think.

if somebody came to you with a documented theory that the belief system you so much embrace is totally wrong, what would be your first reaction?

 

[PLAS]

And for someone not dealing in faith Shadow, I wonder how you and others can make statements like those above with a straight face.

What has evolution proved? Adaptation? No one questioned that. We see in humans that we are eventually not going to have all the toes we have now as they are not as crucial as they once were.

We can 'prove' some connections on a genetic level between ourselves and the primates, but prooving a direct 1-2-3 link?

There are some mighty big pieces of the puzzle missing so to assume you have proven the Theory is correct would be the complete picture. Without it, you are demonstrating a faith in the number "2" missing section ... that has no basis for a belief. Though to be fair, it would actually require more than just '2'. You need to create an amazing creature that does not lose limbs but rather creates specific bones for a specific purpose where none existed before.

And if ... if Evolution could show that somehow all life can from a biological goop ... how do you prove what put it there in the first place?

millions of people belive in God and none has ever seen him

 

[raybia]

millions of people belive in God and none has ever seen him

Billions

 

[PLAS]

Billions

Zillions

 

[Canadian Rider]

if somebody came to you with a documented theory that the belief system you so much embrace is totally wrong, what would be your first reaction?

Honestly. I would ask them about it. I would want to know more because I am seeking truth. I would not work to discredit them and make them seem foolish ...

 

[JokerNick_2]

millions of people belive in God and none has ever seen him

that's why it's called "faith".....

 

[PLAS]

Honestly. I would ask them about it. I would want to know more because I am seeking truth. I would not work to discredit them and make them seem foolish ...

it's good to know that, now behold.... damn I can't find the link

as soon as I find it, prepare to have your faith shattered into a million little pieces, or somethin like thatt:

 

[Canadian Rider]

Science asks the same thing but yet it is not a faith?

 

[JokerNick_2]

hey... 1000 years ago... it was a fact that the world was flat

a fact, that the center point of the solar system was earth

30 years ago, it was a fact, that george lucas knew what he was doing

things change, facts change.... but one thing that hasn't changed, is faith, and the overall beleif that's there's something more to life and this world then we can see.....

 

[comicgirl]

hey... 1000 years ago... it was a fact that the world was flat

a fact, that the center point of the solar system was earth

30 years ago, it was a fact, that george lucas knew what he was doing

things change, facts change.... but one thing that hasn't changed, is faith, and the overall beleif that's there's something more to life and this world then we can see.....

LOL. And the Iranians were our "friends"

 

[Canadian Rider]

it's good to know that, now behold.... damn I can't find the link

as soon as I find it, prepare to have your faith shattered into a million little pieces, or somethin like thatt:

By the way ... my faith is based on my relationship and historical information.

Unless the good Dr. has sent the Tardis back to Calvary ... slight problem there brother.

Be well. I have other threads to peruse ... but always enjoy jumping into the debate here and there about the "Theory" of evolution ...

 

[Sentinel X]

I think evolution is real...I just dont know if I beleive in certain species scientist have said evolved to another (for example dolphins to cows, ect)

I dont think christianity should totally rule out evolution. After all the Bible does say God works in mysterious ways.
Not only does it says this but when God said the Earth was created in 7 days, this doesn't mean that it had to be what we concider 7 days...who said God has to work on our time-schedule?! He even said that 3 days is like 3000 years to him and 3000 years is like 3 days(somewhere).

 

[PLAS]

hey... 1000 years ago... it was a fact that the world was flat

a fact, that the center point of the solar system was earth

30 years ago, it was a fact, that george lucas knew what he was doing

things change, facts change.... but one thing that hasn't changed, is faith, and the overall beleif that's there's something more to life and this world then we can see.....

that was true even before religion was invented, so go figure

 

[JokerNick_2]

How does everyone here know that Evolution is real?

 

[JokerNick_2]

that was true even before religion was invented, so go figure

and you know that.... how?

 

[JokerNick_2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KhAt2ENNeY

evolution.... made easy....

 

[Electrix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KhAt2ENNeY

evolution.... made easy....

Hahaha!

up:

 

[ShadowBoxing]

And for someone not dealing in faith Shadow, I wonder how you and others can make statements like those above with a straight face.

What has evolution proved?

Medical science could help compile a laundry list for you for starters...it also proved DNA and genetics...something we had very little notion of before hand. Has helped us revolutionized medical treatments and in predicting birth defects....

Adaptation? No one questioned that.

For quiet some time they did.

We see in humans that we are eventually not going to have all the toes we have now as they are not as crucial as they once were.

Only because we know live with the knowledge of Evolution...before this would not have been so apparent.

We can 'prove' some connections on a genetic level between ourselves and the primates, but prooving a direct 1-2-3 link?

Uh...yeah, that's pretty huge in fact.

There are some mighty big pieces of the puzzle missing so to assume you have proven the Theory is correct would be the complete picture.

No, if you have a 1000 piece puzzle picture and you are missing 100 and it looks like a cat...it's highly unlikely the final picture will be a dog.

Without it, you are demonstrating a faith in the number "2" missing section

Science doesn't claim to know what the missing pieces are...that is why they still study it. Unlike many Christians who have holes in their theories of God, Science adapts theories to fit new and challenging pieces of evidence. Evolution today is not Darwin's version of Evolution just an fyi.

... that has no basis for a belief. Though to be fair, it would actually require more than just '2'. You need to create an amazing creature that does not lose limbs but rather creates specific bones for a specific purpose where none existed before.

There has never been an instance is recent study like the one you just described. Every species is transition and comparitive anatomy would never jump to such an unorthodox conclusion without proof. Quit imposing religious thought on science.

And if ... if Evolution could show that somehow all life can from a biological goop ... how do you prove what put it there in the first place?

It doesn't...but then Science isn't trying to explain metaphysics.