Discussion: LGBTQ+ Rights XVI - Part 6

[Teelie]

Pence is in some ways their modern messiah. If he becomes president I can see him abusing that power in the most transparently unethical ways he can in the name of "God and country" without missing the irony.

 

[Mani-Man]

So Im a ****ty person? Because of political or religious beliefs Im automatically lumped as ****ty? Just ignore the rest of my life I guess

Do you support Trump? If so then yes you are.
Do you support the Churches opinion on LGBT? If so then yes you are.

Yes i ignore the rest of your life then because you are not more important than thousands or millions of other people...i can live with you being upset then.

Like i said, your political views and religious belief is part of what shapes you as a human person.
You can be a religious person and go to church every sunday for all i care, but if you share the churches idea that being gay is a sin and those who are will burn in hell...then you are ****ty.

I said that politics and religion is part of what makes a person.
I never said that just being a christian or republican is making you a bad person, but those are things that are part of you and show the kind of person you are.
Thats why the whole idea of dismissing ones political or religious views is not something that should be done.

 

[Prettyricky]

Do you support Trump? If so then yes you are.
Do you support the Churches opinion on LGBT? If so then yes you are.

Yes i ignore the rest of your life then because you are not more important than thousands or millions of other people...i can live with you being upset then.

Like i said, your political views and religious belief is part of what shapes you as a human person.
You can be a religious person and go to church every sunday for all i care, but if you share the churches idea that being gay is a sin and those who are will burn in hell...then you are ****ty.

I said that politics and religion is part of what makes a person.
I never said that just being a christian or republican is making you a bad person, but those are things that are part of you and show the kind of person you are.
Thats why the whole idea of dismissing ones political or religious views is not something that should be done.

Im democrat and dont support trump and I go to church but dont support all of there ideals. I go mainly to pray for whatever is bothering me. The world isnt all black and white as these threads make it out to be, theres gray area when you can have your own opinions but go to church to pray and confess whats bothering you without believing in all there stances.

I like chik fila but dont support there view of lgbt but I also recognize the people that work in the stores treat me well everytime I go there and dont represent those views most likely and are just trying to make a living overall. Its not always about politics and lumping people into groups automatically.

This mentality that these boards project im pure and dont support these religions, people etc is concerning and not healthy. None of us have our **** together and attacking someone for not sharing your personal beliefs is not right.

You were even assuming Im a trump supporter and ready to pounce to justify your own stance instead getting to know me. Ready to label and group which is rediculous

 

[Mani-Man]

Im democrat and dont support trump and I go to church but dont support all of there ideals. I go mainly to pray for whatever is bothering me. The world isnt all black and white as these threads make it out to be, theres gray area when you can have your own opinions but go to church to pray and confess whats bothering you without believing in all there stances.

I like chik fila but dont support there view of lgbt but I also recognize the people that work in the stores treat me well everytime I go there and dont represent those views most likely and are just trying to make a living overall. Its not always about politics and lumping people into groups automatically.

This mentality that these boards project im pure and dont support these religions, people etc is concerning and not healthy. None of us have our **** together and attacking someone for not sharing your personal beliefs is not right.

You were even assuming Im a trump supporter and ready to pounce to justify your own stance instead getting to know me. Ready to label and group which is rediculous

I almost tempted to say that you missed my point just so you could preach...that would be really strange.
Again, my point is simply that exactly that...the world is gray.
You cant face people and only look at them while splitting them up.
A person is not one or the other, its everything put together...thats why a person should be judged by what they believe in, what their political views are...what their views are on the world as a whole.

 

[Schlosser85]

Let’s discuss the issues, not each other.

As I’ve already said, the idea of going after someone for what church they attend or whatever does make me uncomfortable. Chris Pratt doesn’t really owe anyone an explanation about what church he goes to.

 

[Donner]

No, but if he was a Muslim actor and frequented a mosque that supported jihad, the media would be all over that story.

 

[Donner]

Also, Hillsong sounds super hipster and weird. I hate mega churches to begin with, but this one is especially irksome. I get that they're trying to move past their ****ty history, but reaffirming that they don't believe in the gay "lifestyle" makes me think that LGBTQ members are not welcomed there. Maybe it's a don't ask don't tell policy, but I am curious if an openly gay famous actor would go to that church.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Let’s discuss the issues, not each other.

As I’ve already said, the idea of going after someone for what church they attend or whatever does make me uncomfortable. Chris Pratt doesn’t really owe anyone an explanation about what church he goes to.

If you associate yourself with bigots, I don't think the label of religion somehow shields a person. You are even more open to circumstance if you decide to start selling your crew of bigots to the world.

 

[MaceB]

We all see ourselves as good people, so it can be a challenge when others try to hold us accountable by questioning our beliefs and our actions. Like, if you are Trump supporter... are you a bad person? Well, you are supporting a person who does bad things, so there's a case to be made. I'm sure on weekends, you help your mother who is in a wheelchair, and you donate to the food pantry in your city every year.
Nonetheless, a good mark doesn't erase the bad. We are the grand total of our choices. One can enable bad behavior and essentially be a bad influence... while still having good intentions. Obviously conservatives get angry when they are called racists, for example. They think to themselves... I spend time with Jerry at work, and I don't believe that one race is better than another... so, I'm not racist. But if you are supporting the party that is calling all Mexicans criminals and rapists, and you support the party that is kidnapping their children... then does it really matter how you treat your mom on Sundays. Hitler really liked animals. Does that mean we shouldn't call him a bad person?
It hurts to be called out on these things, but your political and religious affiliations do matter. It's not just what you think in your heart... it's your actions that matter. And Republicans and Christians across this country should come to terms with the groups that they are affiliated with and the people that they are enabling.

 

[moviedoors]

Yup, i hate how people try to dismiss stuff like that.
A person is who they are with everything combined, political views, religious views...everything.

Doesnt matter how much good someone does or how nice they seem, if they believe in a religion and support a religion that activly shames LGBT people or any kind of person...they are ****ty people.

I'm not gonna go that far with Chris Pratt. I'm not gonna say he's a ****ty person. I don't know him. But I will say this one (very important) aspect of his life is fraught with problems he should re-examine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We all see ourselves as good people, so it can be a challenge when others try to hold us accountable by questioning our beliefs and our actions. Like, if you are Trump supporter... are you a bad person? Well, you are supporting a person who does bad things, so there's a case to be made. I'm sure on weekends, you help your mother who is in a wheelchair, and you donate to the food pantry in your city every year.
Nonetheless, a good mark doesn't erase the bad. We are the grand total of our choices. One can enable bad behavior and essentially be a bad influence... while still having good intentions. Obviously conservatives get angry when they are called racists, for example. They think to themselves... I spend time with Jerry at work, and I don't believe that one race is better than another... so, I'm not racist. But if you are supporting the party that is calling all Mexicans criminals and rapists, and you support the party that is kidnapping their children... then does it really matter how you treat your mom on Sundays. Hitler really liked animals. Does that mean we shouldn't call him a bad person?
It hurts to be called out on these things, but your political and religious affiliations do matter. It's not just what you think in your heart... it's your actions that matter. And Republicans and Christians across this country should come to terms with the groups that they are affiliated with and the people that they are enabling.

Well at this point, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck,,,

Seriously though. If you support bigots, vote for bigoted policy, promote bigoted organizations, even if they are religious based, you can't really argue against your own association with words like racist, sexist, etc. That doesn't mean people won't, but the vast majority know what they are. Which is why we get whataboutism. Why Antifa has become the equivalence of Nazis.

The big issue here is trying to act like the majority of Republicans or Christians who support ****ed up churches, don't know what they are supporting. The vast majority know and either straight up support these practices or ignore such an inconvenience. And both of those are ****.

 

[MaceB]

Well at this point, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck,,,

Seriously though. If you support bigots, vote for bigoted policy, promote bigoted organizations, even if they are religious based, you can't really argue against your own association with words like racist, sexist, etc. That doesn't mean people won't, but the vast majority know what they are. Which is why we get whataboutism. Why Antifa has become the equivalence of Nazis.

The big issue here is trying to act like the majority of Republicans or Christians who support ****ed up churches, don't know what they are supporting. The vast majority know and either straight up support these practices or ignore such an inconvenience. And both of those are ****.

For a lot of folks, I think it's a matter of partitioning off parts of themselves. Like.... let's say there's this upper middle income Republican guy in some neighborhood in Maine. He takes care of his parents, always looks out for his neighbors, donates to causes.. the whole 9 yards. This guy would say to himself, "I think I'm a good person." His friends would say the same. He's kind. He's gentile. He's fun... even with black coworkers.
But the same guy also is a die hard Fox News watcher. He spends his nights trolling online, and he thinks that gays should be sent to rehabilitation centers, cause they are mentally unwell.

Now... what do we do with this guy? Two completely different aspects of his personality. On the one hand, he's kind and conscientious. On the other hand, he's traffics in dirty, hateful, racist views in his private time. Is he a bad person?

It's honestly a difficult question to answer. In some aspects of his life, he is good. He'd jump in front of a car to save the ones he loves. On the other hand, he's got some seriously hateful views. I don't think that I can make a definitive statement on it.

But for me... I wouldn't want that guy as my friend. He may be nice, but he's still a bad person... in my eyes. That's unfortunately how it works. You can be great in 90% of what you do... but if you don't watch out.. that 10% will kill ya.

Now, how do you explain that to these people? You can't really. How do you convince good hearted people that they are actually terrible for their academic opinions? It's hard... nearly impossible...and really not worth anyone's time.

 

[Sithborg]

I do like Leah Remini calling out famous Scientologists in response to Page's attack on Pratt.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For a lot of folks, I think it's a matter of partitioning off parts of themselves. Like.... let's say there's this upper middle income Republican guy in some neighborhood in Maine. He takes care of his parents, always looks out for his neighbors, donates to causes.. the whole 9 yards. This guy would say to himself, "I think I'm a good person." His friends would say the same. He's kind. He's gentile. He's fun... even with black coworkers.
But the same guy also is a die hard Fox News watcher. He spends his nights trolling online, and he thinks that gays should be sent to rehabilitation centers, cause they are mentally unwell.

Now... what do we do with this guy? Two completely different aspects of his personality. On the one hand, he's kind and conscientious. On the other hand, he's traffics in dirty, hateful, racist views in his private time. Is he a bad person?

It's honestly a difficult question to answer. In some aspects of his life, he is good. He'd jump in front of a car to save the ones he loves. On the other hand, he's got some seriously hateful views. I don't think that I can make a definitive statement on it.

But for me... I wouldn't want that guy as my friend. He may be nice, but he's still a bad person... in my eyes. That's unfortunately how it works. You can be great in 90% of what you do... but if you don't watch out.. that 10% will kill ya.

Now, how do you explain that to these people? You can't really. How do you convince good hearted people that they are actually terrible for their academic opinions? It's hard... nearly impossible...and really not worth anyone's time.

Honestly, I don't find it all that difficult a question. They aren't good hearted people. It is very easy to be kind to your friends and family. To care about those in your personal orbit. Even Trump does that. But if you hold bigoted views and especially if you do so without regret, you a bad person in my book. Especially when you vote in ways that hurt so many other people.

It is the rationalizing of these kind of people that gives us Steve King and Donald Trump. Gives us the Republican party as it is now really.

 

[Sithborg]

Ehhh, evidence is against that for Trump. His version of caring for someone is really, really twisted.

 

[Schlosser85]

Frankly I have little doubt Trump would throw his own kids under the bus to save himself.

 

[Teelie]

Honestly surprised he hasn't yet.

 

[MaceB]

Honestly, I don't find it all that difficult a question. They aren't good hearted people. It is very easy to be kind to your friends and family. To care about those in your personal orbit. Even Trump does that. But if you hold bigoted views and especially if you do so without regret, you a bad person in my book. Especially when you vote in ways that hurt so many other people.

It is the rationalizing of these kind of people that gives us Steve King and Donald Trump. Gives us the Republican party as it is now really.

Well I appreciate your opinion, but unfortunately.. the law being what it is... I can't legally kill em. So you know, I've got to work with what they give me. And I'm not going to be a martyr and alienate myself from every conservative I know.

 

[Herofan]

It's pretty tough to expect or demand people to leave their churches from disagreeing over social/policy issues (and/or personnel) as both the religion and the specific church are very important in positive ways to them, community, emotionally and otherwise. Although it would be nice if more people were willing to do so.

 

[Herofan]

For a lot of folks, I think it's a matter of partitioning off parts of themselves. Like.... let's say there's this upper middle income Republican guy in some neighborhood in Maine. He takes care of his parents, always looks out for his neighbors, donates to causes.. the whole 9 yards. This guy would say to himself, "I think I'm a good person." His friends would say the same. He's kind. He's gentile. He's fun... even with black coworkers.
But the same guy also is a die hard Fox News watcher. He spends his nights trolling online, and he thinks that gays should be sent to rehabilitation centers, cause they are mentally unwell.

I doubt many people including conservatives feel that way, the rather-extreme position is that voluntary treatment to try to change attraction/behavior should not be illegal, not at all that there should be mandatory treatment.

 

[Teelie]

It's pretty tough to expect or demand people to leave their churches from disagreeing over social/policy issues (and/or personnel) as both the religion and the specific church are very important in positive ways to them, community, emotionally and otherwise. Although it would be nice if more people were willing to do so.

It would be simple for me to leave a church that promoted or espoused views I disagreed with.

 

[Pink Ranger]

That's tough. To be honest, I know from personal experience, if you're a practising Christian, there is no shortage of options out there if you disagree fundamentally with the political stance of the church you're in. If you disagree. The thing is, Chris has never said anything or done anything against gays. This is kind of like the Liam Neeson thing in a way.

 

[Donner]

That's tough. To be honest, I know from personal experience, if you're a practising Christian, there is no shortage of options out there if you disagree fundamentally with the political stance of the church you're in. If you disagree. The thing is, Chris has never said anything or done anything against gays. This is kind of like the Liam Neeson thing in a way.

Unless he voted for Trump.

 

[Schlosser85]

Unless he voted for Trump.

I turned down a Trump-loving gay guy.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I doubt many people including conservatives feel that way, the rather-extreme position is that voluntary treatment to try to change attraction/behavior should not be illegal, not at all that there should be mandatory treatment.

Liberals can find themselves in the same position. Do you support Bill Clinton, who treats women on a personal level worse than any Republican president except Donald Trump? Even in Canada, the gods of liberalism, Pierre Trudeau and his son Justin, pretty much view women the same as Clinton and Trump do on a personal level. Their commitment to feminism stops at the tips of their wangs basically. Yet liberal progressives still support them, ignoring the parts they don't like.