Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues

[hippie_hunter]

I know why I think he's a violator of human rights but I'd like to hear what you think he's done.

I always thought that we've all had the same reasons for him being a violator of human rights with his support for torture, starting a completely needless war in Iraq which resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, abusing the rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution, and discriminatory views against gays.

 

[Superman]

I always thought that we've all had the same reasons for him being a violator of human rights with his support for torture, starting a completely needless war in Iraq which resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, abusing the rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution, and discriminatory views against gays.

That pretty much covers it. I was just wondering what he thought.

jmanspice and I disagree on so much that I was shocked to see that there might be something that we actually do agree on.t:

 

[Little Foot]

While China was one of the concerns of the Kyoto Protocol that wasn't the main reason why the United States didn't participate in it. Economic factors were.

The fact is that Kyoto was just simply a bad treaty which could have been abused to punish the United States for various reasons and say that it's an enviromental issue especially since nations like Venezuela, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuba and other nations that participate in it which have an anti-American foreign policies to the point of rediculousness and hilarity. It excluded China and India and had side notes for other countries as well. And Russia gets to make money off of it.

Not only that it wouldn't have been ratified regardless if Bush was in office or not. The Senate overwhelmingly (95-0) voted in a response to the treaty stating that the United States should not participate in it. That's why Clinton never submitted it for ratification because it would have been easily shot down in the Senate. Bush just simply said he didn't support it and wasn't going to turn it in to the Senate for ratification.

I feel that I should stress that I feel that Bush is a horrible President, especially in regards to the enviroment. I feel that we should impliment the ideals and the measures of the Kyoto Protocol despite my opposition to the treaty. But it really isn't Bush's fault on this one

Nor do I believe I blamed Bush for the United States' refusal to accept the Kyoto Protocol. Please, understand me, I am hardly a senseless Bush-basher, and I recognize that Kyoto was more Clinton's affair than anything else. To me, though, the environment is a serious concern, so...it sounds horrible, but sometimes you have to deal with some exploitation for the greater good. It's one of those things: you have one belief, I have another, we both recognize the facts. It just comes down to ideology and levels of extremes, I suppose.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Nor do I believe I blamed Bush for the United States' refusal to accept the Kyoto Protocol. Please, understand me, I am hardly a senseless Bush-basher, and I recognize that Kyoto was more Clinton's affair than anything else. To me, though, the environment is a serious concern, so...it sounds horrible, but sometimes you have to deal with some exploitation for the greater good. It's one of those things: you have one belief, I have another, we both recognize the facts. It just comes down to ideology and levels of extremes, I suppose.

Well then, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Little Foot]

Well then, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Oh, no need to apologize at all. I'm not a very angry person.

 

[The Senator]

I know why I think he's a violator of human rights but I'd like to hear what you think he's done.

I am a liberal, first and foremost, to address your post in which you say we disagree on a lot. You'll probably find that we pretty much only disagree on whether Obama should be president and the situation in the Middle East, among other things.

Now... to address your post... Bush has trampled all over both the Geneva Convention and the United States Constitution. He advocates waterboarding, which is torture despite what some of the lunatics in the Bush administration think. He has suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus in the name of fighting terrorism-- or as I see it, so he can hunt down and imprison Muslims as he sees fit. He has adamantly spoken out against homosexuals and advocates an amendment which would write discrimination into our constitution for the first time since slavery. Meanwhile, he feels the need to exert the same influence over our enemies as they did on us during the attacks on 9/11... among other things...

 

[GhostPoet]

The government needs to do it's job for once and take severe action against BP for this MASSIVE disaster.

The BP Oil Spill is BP's fault...one for not taking better measures to prevent things like this. Two, because they are not trying to change the industry...they are continuing to suck the earth dry of oil when we need to be moving AWAY from it and start using better alternatives.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The government should be concerned with aiding BP in the relief work first and foremost. There will be plenty of time to reprimand them afterwards.

 

[GhostPoet]

The government should be concerned with aiding BP in the relief work first and foremost. There will be plenty of time to reprimand them afterwards.

Agreed.

Hopefully though it's not a slap on the wrist because the government has a soft spot for oil.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

There will be too much of a public outcry if BP just received a slap on the wrist and the industry weren't further regulated for safety and prevention of future disasters.

 

[8wid]

They should kick that British Company out of the U.S. so that they can **** up their own oceans

Why do that, the oil will reach their end of the Atlantic eventually .

People that live in Florida that goes to beaches will have to find a new hobby this summer

There also goes the coastal tourism industry. But this is also an awesome opportunity for ECO touring companies to start up.

The government needs to do it's job for once and take severe action against BP for this MASSIVE disaster.

The BP Oil Spill is BP's fault...one for not taking better measures to prevent things like this. Two, because they are not trying to change the industry...they are continuing to suck the earth dry of oil when we need to be moving AWAY from it and start using better alternatives.

We need to start using electric power more than gas with hydroelectric projects and desalinization projects. Plus, I think the world needed this wake up call to show the dangers of off-shore drilling, the industry is only going to bankrupt itself with further wreckless actions.

The government should be concerned with aiding BP in the relief work first and foremost. There will be plenty of time to reprimand them afterwards.

Perhaps not... they will probably be going bankrupt soon as a result meza thinks.

 

[GhostPoet]

I hope this is the final wake-up call to the world. How much more destruction does this planet need to take before those in charge find it not just needed, but imperative to change our ways. We can't keep using the world like it can be recycled and re-used.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Alternative energy sources just aren't there yet where they can be as easily used.


As for the oil spill, the cap got 6,000 barrels to the surface in the first 24 hours. If you saw the video on CNN, oil is actually still coming out of the vents on the cap. This is to prevent it from freezing.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/05/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1

 

[Franklin Richards]

 

[Addendum]

There will be too much of a public outcry if BP just received a slap on the wrist and the industry weren't further regulated for safety and prevention of future disasters.

They will receive a slap on the wrist, if that. The "elected leaders" are answerable to the lobbyists of various corporations, and some of the biggest are the oil companies.

 

[Kelly]

We shall see....

 

[Addendum]

On a lighter note from the guys at Penny Arcade:

With some reading music

[YT]6ikkA7aFq1s[/YT]

 

[Spidey-Bat]

They will receive a slap on the wrist, if that. The "elected leaders" are answerable to the lobbyists of various corporations, and some of the biggest are the oil companies.

Those elected leaders are only in power if the people keep them there.

 

[Addendum]

That relies on the misguided notion that the "people" have a say in whom gets elected.

 

[Alex The Great]

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You still operate under the notion that the "people" have a say in whom gets elected.

The only case where voting doesn't count is in non-swing states in the Presidential election.

 

[Addendum]

The only "vote" that matters is who the corporations want

 

[chaseter]

I was rolling my eyes a few months ago when conservative radio and talk show hosts were saying "global warming what?" a few months ago when it was still relatively cold and now it is extremely hot, it was 106 here yesterday, 100 and freaking 6. Idiots. To use a few days an as example to base your notion of man made climate change is ridiculous.

It just completely shocks me that people can think that we as man have no to negligible affect on our environment.

 

[Marx]

According to the AP, the Gulf oil spill clean up could last years.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Do fish eat oil? Cause that would really help.