Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues

What is your opinion of climate change?

  • Yes it is real and humanity is causing it.

  • Yes it is real but part of a natural cycle.

  • It is real but is both man made and a natural cycle.

  • It's a complete scam made to make money.

  • I dont know or care.

  • Yes it is real and humanity is causing it.

  • Yes it is real but part of a natural cycle.

  • It is real but is both man made and a natural cycle.

  • It's a complete scam made to make money.

  • I dont know or care.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/7/18/more-on-oxburghs-eleven.html
When my FoI request to Imperial led to the disclosure of the Hand and Hoskins emails, there were many redactions of names, which I found rather frustrating. From the language of many of the emails, it appeared that many of the names were of senior people and should thus have been disclosed. I queried this with Imperial who have now disclosed almost all of the relevant detail.

One interesting snippet has emerged from this. When the original emails were released I reported on an inquiry made to Lord Oxburgh by Oliver Morton of the Economist about how Oxburgh's Eleven papers were chosen. When he replied, Oxburgh said in essence that he didn't know.

What I received was a list from the university which I understand was chosen by the Royal Society The contact with the RS was I believe through [name redacted] but I don't know who he consulted. [Name redacted], when I asked him, agreed that the original sample was fair.​

Well, now we know who the redactions were. The contact through with the Royal Society was through Martin Rees - we knew that already. The other redaction, the other person consulted about whether the sample of papers was reasonable, was...Phil Jones.

Now, whichever way you look at it, this is a funny question to put to the accused if one's objective is a fair trial. I mean, what could Jones say? "You've picked all my bad papers"? And of course Jones must have known that the sample was not representative.
Great this keeps getting better and better.

So basically the "exoneration" of Phil Jones and Co asked Phil Jones if the evidence was too sensitive to be examined. Fail. :down:
 

:doh: BP doesn't learn. These are self inflicted wounds. No one would have cared about an honest picture, just like no one would have cared about the news reporting 100,000 gallons as opposed to 60,000 (or whatever the difference in "real" oil leakage and BP numbers were) - when you are dealing with such figures, people can't really tell the difference.

What people CAN tell, however, is dishonesty.
 
:doh: BP doesn't learn. These are self inflicted wounds. No one would have cared about an honest picture, just like no one would have cared about the news reporting 100,000 gallons as opposed to 60,000 (or whatever the difference in "real" oil leakage and BP numbers were) - when you are dealing with such figures, people can't really tell the difference.

What people CAN tell, however, is dishonesty.

Exactly man.
 
[CLIMATE BILL DEAD (CAP AND TRADE BURIED)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40109.html

[Lights figurative/fatalist cigarette]

Well saw that coming from about 500,000 miles out. Too bad. Cap-and-Trade is most likely officially dead (the business-friendly Bush '41 carbon pricing plan mind you) and an even weaker more pathetic form of carbon pricing (probably Cantwell's) will take its place...but won't even be considered touchable until at least after the 2012 election. Obama will have to win reelection (which is still highly probable is you are a student of history) before he will have the political clout to move a real climate/energy bill through.

We'll get oil regulation and...well that's it by the looks of it. No renewable energy standards means we'll fall behind in the green race even further as China takes the permanent lead (with Europe in 2nd) securing the next big industry of the 21st century squarely out of the US's grasp...our dependency on oil will lessen none as we head into a future where it will only become more expensive from a part of the world we're already fighting two wars with indirectly created by our dependency.

And if you believe in climate change (and I do as the writing is on the wall)...Well another 5-10 years of doing nothing to curb the largest polluting nation in the world is a tragedy (even if we get a climate reform law in 2013, the earliest, it will not take effect until much later).

The left got HCR, Wall Street Reform, student loan reforms and a robust (if insufficient) stimulus. One of them wasn't going to go through. The one whose rewards are the furthest away unsurprisingly was the one that got put off and time killed. Too bad future generations will suffer for it, greatly.
 
Last edited:
I'm very disappointed by this. I was hoping for a significant push for renewable forms of energy and green jobs.
 
Not me, I'm happy. I'm hoping to maintain a comfortable standard of living for my family. Not dealing with the steep cost increases this would have caused for energy and necessary consumer goods (i.e. food) will go a long way toward helping me achieve this goal.

But on a more positive note,Portions of Gulf of Mexico reopen for fishing
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/07/portions_of_gulf_of_mexico_reo.html
 
I think there is a way to do both....or at the least not raise taxes as much.....but this is not the bill.
 
It is never "this bill." Cap-and-Trade was the conservative think tank answer for carbon pricing as opposed to a straight carbon tax or a carbon cap.

To get off oil (for whatever reason you may believe, but no matter what we're on a timeclock) you need to disincentivize pollution and incentivize green solutions. A few tax credits for hybrids here, tax credits for NAT GAS vehicles there while in the right direction will not change the market.

Unfortunately, our country has become so soft in modern times we never, ever make the hard decisions. Low taxes, endless wars, melting icecaps, skyrocketing deficits--as long as we can kick it down the road and watch Jersey Shore, it's all good.
 
So how has cap and trade worked in other places? Have they found the miracle solution to energy?

Companies are investing in alternative energy because they want to have the patents on that new technology so that they can sell it. Taxing companies only takes away money from that company and gives it to the government...that is all. It is just a tax hidden behind a mask of good intentions. They then pass those costs down to the consumer so we end up paying.
 
Keep saying that as China passes us by and becomes the world leader in green technology.
 
So China passing us has everything to do with cap and trade?
 
It is a mistake for this country to not seriously invest in green technology. Green tech IS the future...no matter how much the US wants to bury its head in the sand.
 
I remember how the car was invented. The government was tired of all the horse poop laying around so they forced taxes onto all business. Voila, the combustion engine was born.

Creativity isn't fostered through the government forcing its hand down onto people and businesses. All it is was a tax...that is all, nothing more, nothing less. We are still going to invest in green technology, like we already do. It isn't like those technologies are now dead because the government isn't going to be behind a company asking for cash or results.
 
It is a mistake for this country to not seriously invest in green technology. Green tech IS the future...no matter how much the US wants to bury its head in the sand.
Why not invest yourself? Instead of placing trust in governments rife in corruption and backhanded favors in the green industry? Every small bit helps.

Here I give you a good place to start:

http://www.amazon.com/Clean-Money-Picking-Winners-Green/dp/0470283564/

Believe me if I find something sound myself I'd do it too. Money is money. Money that offers a legit alt. energy, I would absolutely love it. But it's never that simple.
 
That's for sure.....I'm waiting on something to open up myself. As soon as I see something that will give me a good return over the next 15 years......I'm in.....but I'm not giving up what I have in oil and natural gas.
 
Shocking Photos Of The Other Oil Spill Happening Right Now
Clean up continues in the port of Dalian after an oil pipeline in China's Yellow Sea exploded on July 16. The pipeline, owned by China National Petroleum Corp., is estimated to have leaked 1,500 tons of oil, or 400,000 gallons.

The spill is China's largest reported oil spill -- but also relatively small compared to the Gulf Coast spill's 94 million to 184 million gallons.
 
So China passing us has everything to do with cap and trade?

As long as we don't commit to renewable energy standards, have some type of carbon pricing or carbon standard (Cap and Trade was just a conservative, more business-friendly concept of this) and nothing to push the market towards developing green energies when oil is cheaper--we'll fall behind China which is moving in that direction just fine so that in 20 years when the global population is bigger and oil is scarcer, they will be the nation that is supplying alternative energies to the world and we'll be buying our energy from them (like everything else) or fighting for the increasingly expensive (and hazardous) remaining oil in the world.

Alternative technologies, carbon pricing, and renewable energy standards are needed as well as a national push to nuclear power and a decision to invest in ethanol or not. We just keep pushing this stuff down the line while the rest of the world gets ahead in what is an industrial race. China has cornered the market already in electric plug-in vehicles (and scooters), but we just shrug as we clean off the oil from our beaches that has destroyed thousands of peoples' ways of life.

But hey, we'll get a bipartisan "tougher oil regulation bill" that may help make OCS drilling safer (we'll see), but ignores the bigger question as to why we are so desperate to do so.
 
I remember how the car was invented. The government was tired of all the horse poop laying around so they forced taxes onto all business. Voila, the combustion engine was born.

Creativity isn't fostered through the government forcing its hand down onto people and businesses. All it is was a tax...that is all, nothing more, nothing less. We are still going to invest in green technology, like we already do. It isn't like those technologies are now dead because the government isn't going to be behind a company asking for cash or results.

You seem to ignore most of the businesses in NAT GAS, E-15, hydrogen cells, electric vehicles, etc. want government investment. You are obviously ignoring that many industries are frustrated there is no Renewable Energy Standard in this country as it leaves the future uncertain and are looking at other things.

And most of all you seem to forget we're on a timetable here. Green technology is the future because oil is going to become very, very expensive over the next 50 years when our global population nearly doubles. And if you look at the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park or the polar bears drowning this summer...there are more than just energy issues at hand.

But, sticking the head in the sand is the go-to strategy these days.
 
According to the AP, BP is trying to limit the release of oil spill research by off Gulf Coast scientists 'lucrative deals' that would bar them from releasing their findings for three years.

:dry:
 
I saw that. BP is going around and buying all the scientists they can giving them unlimited resources to research the spill, but then not to publish anything at least until after any litigation of lawsuit against BP has subsided (which if Exxon-Valdez taught us anything, it is decades). They seem to think buying their silence is cheaper than paying what the actual scientific data says they owe Gulf residents. :dry:

I saw a great bit from Thomas Friedman today: The one good thing that may come out of this Health Care Bill is that the Climate Change Deniers will now get to live long enough to see how wrong they were.

I like that.
 
According to the AP, BP CEO Tony Hayward is expected to announce his resignation from the company within days.

:up:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"