🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[Herofan]

There are NUMEROUS countries that have EXACTLY the same media. Literally the exact same shows/movies/games with ZERO censoring. You have to be frighteningly ignorant of other cultures/countries to not know that. Again, Canada, where I live and have my whole life, has the exact same ones and zero censorship of violence.

FWIW, even though some time ago, pretty severe.
FileRoom.org - Television show, "Power Rangers", censored in several countries
(9)
10 Things You Didn’t Know About the Power Rangers
Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles (Comparison: UK-Version - US-Version) - Movie-Censorship.com

 

[Herofan]

How would mandatory universal background checks for gun purchases work? There already are mandatory background checks before the sale of a gun for professional gun dealers, the exception to or loophole in this requirement is that people who aren't professional gun dealers aren't required to run a background check if they want to sell or give a gun to someone, not normally doing so.

How would non-dealers trying to do one sale or giving away be able to or required to run a background check without the background information of everyone also being available to the entire public as well? Or would having the information available to the whole public not be considered a problem?

 

[Reaver027]

All people are saying is that it can be Guns AND media instead of Guns OR media. It also seems ignorant, in my mind, to insist that the material people watch and listen to doesn't contribute to how they interact with society, or that it can't be a contributing factor for those with mental illness. Come on. Stop being so unequivocal about this.

You're acting like I want to push all the blame onto the video game industry. No, I just know that things can have multiple causalities... and all things being equal, gun violence is probably caused by more than just one thing.

Like, I can be against Assault weapons, and the culture of violence at the same time.

The problem is that no other country on this planet has this specific gun violence problem. This is a US specific problem so any factors that are shared with other countries around the world can be dismissed. That leaves pretty much only the gun laws and gun culture in america as a deciding factor.

 

[MaceB]

How would mandatory universal background checks for gun purchases work? There already are mandatory background checks before the sale of a gun for professional gun dealers, the exception to or loophole in this requirement is that people who aren't professional gun dealers aren't required to run a background check if they want to sell or give a gun to someone, not normally doing so.

How would non-dealers trying to do one sale or giving away be able to or required to run a background check without the background information of everyone also being available to the entire public as well? Or would having the information available to the whole public not be considered a problem?

You make it illegal to sell a gun without getting a license and registering, and you make it illegal to loan your guns out to people. The answer isn't to allow any Tom, Dick, and Harry to be able to do a background check. The answer is to not allow people to trade or sell guns.

As for guns shows... you can have your gun shows... show em off. But you can't sell your guns there without registering with the government. The loophole is closed.

 

[MaceB]

The problem is that no other country on this planet has this specific gun violence problem. This is a US specific problem so any factors that are shared with other countries around the world can be dismissed. That leaves pretty much only the gun laws and gun culture in america as a deciding factor.

I've already admitted that guns are the main culprit. What's so hard to understand that violence in media isn't the cause of the problem, but it is an accelerant? People on here seem to keep wanting to place me in this box, where I'm stating that guns aren't the problem, but video games are... that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that violence in media primes us towards believing violence is the answer. From there... it's not that far of a jump, skip, and hop away to say, "well, I could solve this problem with a gun." Guns are the problem... but guns supported by years of violent game play is probably a slightly bigger problem. Follow?

Other countries don't have our problem, because they don't have as much access to guns. But we don't know what a society would be like if it had lots of access to guns while still having a censored media. That experiment has never been done before, as far as I know. Probably cause such a thing is contradictory. A society that doesn't fetishize guns and violence would probably not be super interested in having wide access to firearms. So, it's a chicken or the egg situation.. Did violent media give Americans permission to fetishize guns? Or did our fetish for guns give us permission to appreciate violent media. I believe that guns are the source of the problem, and our violent media is the result; however, these two things aren't separate.. they work with each other to create an environment where the owning of a gun is accepted and even encouraged. Would Americans fetishize guns so much, if we weren't crazy about Western movies in the 60s? If we didn't fetishize this whole "I'm an independent man, and I don't need no cops to help me" attitude? I don't know... but I imagine it's all connected. We like guns because of our media. And we like our media because of our guns.

Media isn't the cause.. but it doesn't help. Much more than a tool for defense, I think guns are a symbol these days. A symbol for masculinity, a symbol for personal freedom, etc. The value that we place on a gun is more than just its value as a tool; its value is cultural. And I think that cultural value is propped up by gun related images and literature that we are inundated with as kids.

Now.. I appreciate that this is all just my conjecture. Just my common sense take on it. I understand that there have been studies on this that state that violent video games do not correlate with violent actions, and my personal feelings can't compete with hard data. But as I take a step back, I just don't see how such things can benefit us in any way. Surely there are many American children who grow up inundated with this stuff, and it effects them. How could it not? No one looks at our violent media and is like.... "well, that definitely helps to make us more calm and passive, for sure." It seems obvious that violent media has a negative effect on us... the question is to what degree that is.

 

[random_havoc]

All people are saying is that it can be Guns AND media instead of Guns OR media. It also seems ignorant, in my mind, to insist that the material people watch and listen to doesn't contribute to how they interact with society, or that it can't be a contributing factor for those with mental illness. Come on. Stop being so unequivocal about this.

You're acting like I want to push all the blame onto the video game industry. No, I just know that things can have multiple causalities... and all things being equal, gun violence is probably caused by more than just one thing.

Like, I can be against Assault weapons, and the culture of violence at the same time.

This is frustrating.

All other things are equal. That's exactly what I've been saying this whole time! The media is exactly the same but here in Canada it might as well be Sesame Street compared to the States. Again, many other countries prove this exact same point.
The only major difference is the US insane lack of basic gun control

 

[samsnee]

There’s a national emergency alright

Several injured, shooter apprehended at Aurora, Ill., manufacturing plant

 

[Holiday]

I'm curious if he legally owned that gun. He had a prior felony conviction for stabbing a woman in Mississippi. Im not sure on the law if he could've gotten his gun rights back between then and now.

 

[X-Woman]

I blame Capitalism for the gun problem. (I don't find anything wrong with Capitalism actually, but it does seem to be a problem when it comes to guns.) The trouble is that every time there's a mass shooting, there's a lot of people who make a whole lot of money.

That's why sensible gun laws never get passed in the USA. It would put a dent into people's profits.

 

[Batmannerism]

We've just had our worst ever mass shooting 50 people killed, a terrible tragedy that's affected the whole country. The last one of these was in 1992, where a lone gunman killed 13 people.

Gun ownership here is high although with some controls ( particularly on hand guns) - hopefully our government will make good on its promise to change gun laws swiftly and do what the Aussies did in 1996 - result, no mass shootings in Australia since then.

I don't know what the answer to the USA' s gun issues are - we have an average of 1 gun death per 100, 000 people, the USA has 12 per 100,000. Whatever it is I hope someone does something because shootings occur with reasonable frequency there, and one is more than enough to give any country motivation to change.

 

[samsnee]

I mean, did these guys even try to see if thoughts and prayers would work before doing this?

 

[Teelie]

Going by how successful it is in the U.S., I think they just went with a method that actually works.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

I have to say that I’m impressed with the speed at which the New Zealand government are changing the laws on gun ownership.

It’s a shame that such sensible reaction/behaviour is not part of the US government makeup.

New Zealand to ban military style weapons

 

[:eek:]

I have to say that I’m impressed with the speed at which the New Zealand government are changing the laws on gun ownership.

It’s a shame that such sensible reaction/behaviour is not part of the US government makeup.

New Zealand to ban military style weapons

Good, but it's a shame something horrible always needs to happen before changes are made.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[Teelie]

Because more guns will solve school shootings.

 

[Batmannerism]

World reacts to military-style semi-automatic weapons ban in New Zealand

7 days is all it took. Will it be a perfect solution ? Probably not, but at least we're doing something- and the Australian experience suggests it will have a positive impact. It's late, every government since 1992 has ducked this issue, but never too late - I'm behind Ardern 100% on this move. Made me proud to live here.

Would this work in the USA ? I doubt it, as we have a unicameral system down here that allows for sweeping legislative changes at high speed. Also, America appears to have a much much more powerful gun lobby and perhaps a cultural relationship with guns that we don't share.

I can't even begin to suggest how America needs to deal with it's gun violence issues - but I hope someone comes up with something soon.

 

[Batmannerism]

Because more guns will solve school shootings.

Wow.
I used to be a teacher....i just can't believe that anyone outside of an insane asylum thinks putting guns into schools is a good idea.

It's like pouring more some petrol on a fire to put it out......

 

[samsnee]

Everyone knows when there’s a hole in the boat, you make another hole for the water to go back out of.

 

[BrollySupersj]

I wonder if arming teachers could stop this:

Parkland shooting survivor Sydney Aiello takes her own life

*sarcasm*.

 

[Schlosser85]

Because the answer is always: more guns.

The NRA is probably salivating at the thought of a few more shootings to sell guns to every school in America. All they need to do is go crawl back over to the Kremlin for some more $$$ to buy a few more politicians and I bet they can push it through.

All while talking about how patriotic they are.

 

[Mike5575]

I have to say that I’m impressed with the speed at which the New Zealand government are changing the laws on gun ownership.

It’s a shame that such sensible reaction/behaviour is not part of the US government makeup.

New Zealand to ban military style weapons

Amazing. It's almost as if New Zealand doesn't have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Mike5575]

Wow.
I used to be a teacher....i just can't believe that anyone outside of an insane asylum thinks putting guns into schools is a good idea.

It's like pouring more some petrol on a fire to put it out......

As opposed to gun free zones which don't do jack ****? Mass shooters are almost always stopped by a good guy with a gun, whether he/she be a cop or just a regular civilian.

 

[Mani-Man]

As opposed to gun free zones which don't do jack ****? Mass shooters are almost always stopped by a good guy with a gun, whether he/she be a cop or just a regular civilian.

Whoever is the idiot who told you that gun free zones dont work...get away before you get the disease to and start talking crap like that dumbass.
Gun Free Zones work just as fine as it gets, would work more if the Police would be funded better...but it works as well as you can expect.
In America less but what do you expect in a country that builds, sells and buys guns like others buy groceries.

"Good guy with a gun" is such a dumb term...please step away from the person who tells you this nonsense right this second.
The number of civilians who interfere in general is very low, america has one of the lowest numbers of civil courage.
And i wouldn consider cops good guys with guns, they should be but the way America trains and uses their Police is a Dumpster on Fire.
Its too easy going and far too many people who shouldnt be cops, become cops.

 

[Batmannerism]

Amazing. It's almost as if New Zealand doesn't have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.

Can't tell if that's sarcasm, but in case it's not we don't - neither does Canada, the UK or Australia. Seems to be working out for us okay given that we all seem to have a lot less school shootings than the US.

Constitutions, even the American constitution, get amended from time to time. The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1789, when Canada was effectively an enemy ( which is why invading British soldiers from Canada burned the White House down in 1812).
I suggest to you that the world has moved on from then. The most recent amendment to your constitution was in 1971, maybe it's time for another change ?

Redirect Notice

As opposed to gun free zones which don't do jack ****? Mass shooters are almost always stopped by a good guy with a gun, whether he/she be a cop or just a regular civilian.

Columbine ? Sandy Hook ? Virginia Tech ? Stoneman Douglas ? These are the most infamous school shootings in American history with the highest casualty counts and none of which were stopped by a "good guy with a gun" although the Stoneman Douglas shooter was arrested after the massacre at a separate location.

What about the Las Vegas shooting ? Nope, another SIGSW.

As for American teachers they are statistically the worst paid and most overworked in the English speaking world. Is giving them firearms at work really a good idea ?

You may be raising these issues as sarcasm or perhaps to point out the absurdity of arming teachers. However, if you're being serious well.....best of luck to you.