Discussion: Health And Healthcare II

[dnno1]

How can she be happy if you haven't grown in years?

Because I live with her and you don't so I know. I said I am all grown up already (i.e. I am mature now). I didn't say that I stopped growing or my growth was stunted or something like that.

I picture of a twinkie mountain, though a cool one does not help me. Give me money like you said.

I didn't say that I would give you money. That is hard to do in Cyberspace.

Suspected? Don't give me that. People suspect UFO's screwed apes and made mankind. Let's go with facts. Fact, hemp has less detrimental effects than any prescription medication available. It is also less harmful than alcohol, cigs and has caused less deaths than coffee, sugar, meats or water. (that's right people can actually OD on water, but not hemp oddly enough).

I said known or suspected. They used suspected because further research needs to be done to confirm it. That doesn't mean that studies have been done. I will explain shortly.

It has never been proven that smoking causes any impaired driving, although cell phones, radios or people in the car have been proven. And they've done countless tests on this.

There was a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that tested reckless drivers (who were not apparently impaired by alcohol) for cocaine and marijuana. Out of 175 subjects tested 59% tested positive for marijuana (over 80% tested positive for both drugs). Although the study concluded that toxicological testing of subjects for cocaine and marijuana at the scene may be practical and useful means of sobriety testing it did indicate that more than half of drivers tested (that were not under the influence of alcohol) were intoxicated by marijuana, which would justify the suspicion that it does impair your ability to drive. There was another study in The American Journal of Psychiatry that airline pilots under the influence of THC 24 hours after smoking it showed trends towards impairment in flight simulators.

Fact. Hemp has been legal in this country for 5 times longer than it's been illegal and was used by our founding fathers. Fact, hemp oils can be used to save thousands from malnutrition. Fact, the gov. has issued hemp cigs to people in a test study for long term pain suffering and all of these people have been (they still do) living productive lives as professionals with no adverse effects and remarkable improvements in their lives. Fact, hemp smoke unlike alcohol or any stimulant curbs violent impulses and behavior.

And finally...fact, you seriously need to smoke a fatty.

Fact: Although hemp and marijuana are in the same family, the levels of THC in hemp are so low that no one could get high from smoking it. The United States has historically understood the distinction between marijuana and hemp and the reason for the restriction on the latter is entirely different from the former.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Because I live with her and you don't so I know. I said I am all grown up already (i.e. I am mature now). I didn't say that I stopped growing or my growth was stunted or something like that.

I didn't say that I would give you money. That is hard to do in Cyberspace.




I said known or suspected. They used suspected because further research needs to be done to confirm it. That doesn't mean that studies have been done. I will explain shortly.



There was a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that tested reckless drivers (who were not apparently impaired by alcohol) for cocaine and marijuana. Out of 175 subjects tested 59% tested positive for marijuana (over 80% tested positive for both drugs). Although the study concluded that toxicological testing of subjects for cocaine and marijuana at the scene may be practical and useful means of sobriety testing it did indicate that more than half of drivers tested (that were not under the influence of alcohol) were intoxicated by marijuana, which would justify the suspicion that it does impair your ability to drive. There was another study in The American Journal of Psychiatry that airline pilots under the influence of THC 24 hours after smoking it showed trends towards impairment in flight simulators.



Fact: Although hemp and marijuana are in the same family, the levels of THC in hemp are so low that no one could get high from smoking it. The United States has historically understood the distinction between marijuana and hemp and the reason for the restriction on the latter is entirely different from the former.

Look you said "I finished growing a long time ago". It made for an easy penis joke. Why you're still trying to explain what you actually meant kinda makes it funnier but also a little sad.

That's true I don't live with her, just visit when you're away.

Give me money!

I've read that study. Did you know that any recorded accident ruled as a DUI or DWI involving THC content has shown that other substances were also present at the time? Odd that. And also odd no one has conclusively proven THC leads to further accidents when they can prove listening to your radio does. Odd.

THC is generated from hemp plants. It's not the same family. Another fun fact. The bill of rights, because of the paper it's printed on, is actually classified by the US gov as an illegal substance and should by law be destroyed. If you believe so deeply in the gov protecting you and that these laws are just then you must be for the burning of the bill of rights.

Marijuana is a mexican slang term that drug companies decided to use to scare people about THC because they believed most americans were racists against mexicans. I will never acknowledge that as an official term and the fact that it is by the US gov in "medical" reports is sad. Hemp growth is outlawed because of plastics and paper and industries fear of competition. There is really no legitimate reason for it especially when you consider something like coffee is vastly more dangerous and available to kids without restrictions.

 

[Kelly]

When you have to explain the joke, it didn't work. Let's move on.

 

[dnno1]

Look you said "I finished growing a long time ago". It made for an easy penis joke. Why you're still trying to explain what you actually meant kinda makes it funnier but also a little sad.

That's true I don't live with her, just visit when you're away.

Well that's not true because she works during the day and I am home with her at night.

Give me money!

Sorry. I tried but it looks like you were not satisfied with what I gave you.

I've read that study. Did you know that any recorded accident ruled as a DUI or DWI involving THC content has shown that other substances were also present at the time? Odd that. And also odd no one has conclusively proven THC leads to further accidents when they can prove listening to your radio does. Odd.

Not the cases in the study I cited. Only 20% of them tested positive for more than one substance and that was cocaine and marijuana.

THC is generated from hemp plants. It's not the same family. Another fun fact. The bill of rights, because of the paper it's printed on, is actually classified by the US gov as an illegal substance and should by law be destroyed. If you believe so deeply in the gov protecting you and that these laws are just then you must be for the burning of the bill of rights.

Marijuana and hemp weed are in the cannabus family (i.e. the same family). You are mistaken. The notion that the original Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights being made of hemp is urban legend too. They were actually made of parchment paper (i.e. treated sheepskin, just like some college degrees are - see http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html). The notion that it was written on hemp is just a myth being touted by the folks who want to legalize marijuana for recreational use.

Marijuana is a mexican slang term that drug companies decided to use to scare people about THC because they believed most americans were racists against mexicans. I will never acknowledge that as an official term and the fact that it is by the US gov in "medical" reports is sad. Hemp growth is outlawed because of plastics and paper and industries fear of competition. There is really no legitimate reason for it especially when you consider something like coffee is vastly more dangerous and available to kids without restrictions.

Speaking of THC, here is a 1967 documentary on the effects of marijuana (THC):



Yeah, if you want your bus driver or airline pilot to operate their vehicles on that stuff, you will be with a small crowd.

 

[Star]

Uh, alcohol is legal and just as bad. just because its legal doesn't mean the bus drivers and airline pilots will be high all the time. haha, wtf. what a ridiculous thing to say. when you get on the bus is the driver wasted off his ass?

no, because he would lose his job....

 

[Alex The Great]

Well that's not true because she works during the day and I am home with her at night.



Sorry. I tried but it looks like you were not satisfied with what I gave you.



Not the cases in the study I cited. Only 20% of them tested positive for more than one substance and that was cocaine and marijuana.



Marijuana and hemp weed are in the cannabus family (i.e. the same family). You are mistaken. The notion that the original Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights being made of hemp is urban legend too. They were actually made of parchment paper (i.e. treated sheepskin, just like some college degrees are - see http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html). The notion that it was written on hemp is just a myth being touted by the folks who want to legalize marijuana for recreational use.



Speaking of THC, here is a 1967 documentary on the effects of marijuana (THC):



Yeah, if you want your bus driver or airline pilot to operate their vehicles on that stuff, you will be with a small crowd.

That's from 1967. Things have changed

And it would only be used for medical purposes. Like up here in Canada (I think)

 

[dnno1]

That's from 1967. Things have changed

And it would only be used for medical purposes. Like up here in Canada (I think)

The effects have not changed. we are the same human beings that we were 43 years ago and the same drugs have the same effect on us. I think Canada is trying to decriminalize the use of marijuana, but the cultivation and sale are still illegal (kind of like the U.S. Federal laws).

 

[Paradoxium]

Add another company to the list:

BOEING Increases Employee Health Insurance Fees (Obamacare)

Did not copy the AP headline because of the legal **** the give to bloggers and forums. Something mentioned long ago.

 

[Paradoxium]

3M drops retiree health coverage

 

[Paradoxium]

Health reform to worsen doctor shortage: group

Via Reuters (Association of American Medical Colleges)

A few links I posted in the Obama thread to make a point, now here:

McDonald's May Drop Health Plan
(Was granted waiver I believe, yay for Lobbies, Change I can believe in )

Harvard Pilgrim cancels Medicare Advantage plan[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/health/policy/01insure.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss"]

Insurer Cuts Health Plans as New Law Takes Hold[/URL]
Principal Financial

There was this one I had bookmarked I forgot to post:

Colleges say new health law may imperil student policies

Colleges and universities say that some rules in the new health law could keep them from offering low-cost, limited-benefit student insurance policies, and they’re seeking federal authority to continue offering them.

Their request drew immediate fire from critics, however, who say that student health plans should be held to the same standards that other insurance is.

Among other things, the colleges want clarification that they won’t have to offer the policies to non-students.

Without a number of changes, it may be impossible to continue to offer student health plans, says a letter that the American Council on Education sent Aug. 12 to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, signed by 12 other trade associations that represent colleges.

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!! YES WE CAN!!

 

[dnno1]

It is easy to blame it on HCR, but this is actually in response to the rising cost of health care. In other words this was going to happen anyway. Furthermore, about the Boeing thing, that is only with their non-union employees. The employees that are unionized are still under a collective bargaining agreement, which should be subject to renegotiation by 2011. If the unions turn down the copay (which they have done in the past) mark my word, the non-union employees will get the same benefit. Expect the same scenario for other companies with union and non-union representation.

Now, as for McDonald's, if you do some research you will find that the median salary for an employee there is about $10.00/hr (the median wage by job position ranges from $7.24 to $9.68). At that rate, they could go and get a premium for $3,440 a year and get a government tax credit of $2,314 (as calculated by the Kaiser Foundation Health Reform Subsidy Calculator). In other words, for a few hundred dollars more than the annual cost of their basic mini-med plan (i.e. $1,127 actual premium versus $727.48 for the basic mini-med), they would get better coverage through a regular medical plan. In my opinion, McDonald's would be doing their employees a favor by dropping their coverage since they could go and get something better on the outside.

 

[chaseter]

Maybe the recession was going to happen anyways.....................but lets blame Bush!

 

[dnno1]

Maybe the recession was going to happen anyways.....................but lets blame Bush!

Well if you look at the evidence, you can see that he (i.e. his administration) was partly to blame for it.

 

[dnno1]

Uh, alcohol is legal and just as bad. just because its legal doesn't mean the bus drivers and airline pilots will be high all the time. haha, wtf. what a ridiculous thing to say. when you get on the bus is the driver wasted off his ass?

no, because he would lose his job....

They are subject to alcohol and drug testing so as to prevent that (in other words there is still government regulation). Even then there have been cases where bus drivers and airline pilots have been caught drinking or under the influence while on the job.

 

[Carcharodon]

They are subject to alcohol and drug testing so as to prevent that (in other words there is still government regulation).

So...why couldn't they be regularly tested for THC, again?

 

[chaseter]

Well if you look at the evidence, you can see that he (i.e. his administration) was partly to blame for it.

Oh but HCR is not to blame The economy is cyclical...

 

[chaseter]

Uh, alcohol is legal and just as bad. just because its legal doesn't mean the bus drivers and airline pilots will be high all the time. haha, wtf. what a ridiculous thing to say. when you get on the bus is the driver wasted off his ass?

no, because he would lose his job....

I agree. Although I do not partake in weed, I am for legalization. It has no addictive substances other than you liking the feeling but the same can be said for chocolate or McDonalds

 

[dnno1]

So...why couldn't they be regularly tested for THC, again?

They already are.

 

[BlackLantern]

if the Reps take the House, maybe they can take steps towards undoing some of this mess

 

[Carcharodon]

They already are.

I'm confused. You said this:

Yeah, if you want your bus driver or airline pilot to operate their vehicles on that stuff, you will be with a small crowd.

...who was advocating that? Did I miss something?

 

[dnno1]

Oh but HCR is not to blame The economy is cyclical...

No, you have to blame the rising cost of health care. Companies like Boeing have been wanting to change their health plans so that the employee co-pays for more, but unions have always fought it off. As a result in some cases the company will extend the negotiated benefit to the non-union employees as an incentive to stay out of the union (this is if not giving them the benefit would put them at a disadvantage). It is not the same as the economy since companies are choosing to change their benefits.

 

[dnno1]

I'm confused. You said this:

Yeah, if you want your bus driver or airline pilot to operate their vehicles on that stuff, you will be with a small crowd.

...who was advocating that? Did I miss something?

Yes, you did. Those who advocate the legalization/decriminalization of marijuana are basically saying it is alright for a bus driver or airline pilot to smoke and then go and operate a commercial transport vehicle. I I cited where a study showed that even 24 hours after smoking the drug there was till impairment, yet if they got their way, it would be legal to do that. Now I will say this again, if you want your bus driver or airline pilot to operate their vehicles on that stuff, you will be in a small crowd.

 

[dnno1]

if the Reps take the House, maybe they can take steps towards undoing some of this mess

They won't and even if they did they can't and won't.

 

[chaseter]

No, you have to blame the rising cost of health care. Companies like Boeing have been wanting to change their health plans so that the employee co-pays for more, but unions have always fought it off. As a result in some cases the company will extend the negotiated benefit to the non-union employees as an incentive to stay out of the union (this is if not giving them the benefit would put them at a disadvantage). It is not the same as the economy since companies are choosing to change their benefits.

So it was unions that once again ruin everything.

 

[dnno1]

So it was unions that once again ruin everything.

No, if it wasn't for the unions, employees would co-pay for their insurance -- a lot more than what they are paying right now. In fact, employees would be paid a lot less than they are now (like in some right to work states). It is the unions that negotiate a better deal for their members and the company usually passes that benefit on to the non-represented employees just to keep them from joining. They may offer other incentives as well just to piss the union off.