Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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While I favor legalizing marijuana because I believe prohibition leads to greater increase in crime and I believe it can be an economic benefit. I also believe that it should retain its social stigma and that is why I found it so troubling that Obama came out and said that marijuana is no worse than alcohol. Marijuana and alcohol are two different drugs each with their own distinct problems. As a nation we abuse drugs far too much whether they be alcohol, prescription, marijuana, or narcotics. I often here people say that marijuana helps them relax or releases anxiety, it is better to find another way to do this, perhaps some yoga, meditation, or exercise.
 
I don't find it troubling at all that the President choice honesty over continuing to perpetuate decades old lies.
 
Whiskey Tango said:
I don't find it troubling at all that the President choice honesty over continuing to perpetuate decades old lies.
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Different drugs with different potential dangers and risks. I don't think it helps anybody to lie about it, but the way he nonchalantly compares the two is rather irresponsible, especially without prefacing it with how dangerous alcohol can be. I don't think it is a wise decision to apply our lax views of alcohol to marijuana as well. 6% of teens use marijuana daily, that doesn't happen with alcohol and this is going to impact their cognitive ability and their ability to learn in the classroom as well as lower their IQ if the use is prolonged. That's about 2 students in each classroom that this happens to, and you have the President of the United States essentially saying that it's not that bad. Smoking marijuana regularly has profound effect on your behavior and can cause lethargy because it depletes your dopamine levels.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
He smoked marijuana regularly, and now look at him.
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He is an extreme outlier, looking at one data point to come to a conclusion is not logical. In no means am I saying that if you smoke marijuana regularly in your adolescence you cannot be successful. That being said there are some serious risks in doing so, and as a society we should continue to stigmatize the use of this drug. As an individual you are better off not using and as a result society will be better off as well.
 
Polls are showing that society doesn't agree with you. Irresponsible use will occur regardless of legality. Giving responsible adults the correct information and allowing them to make their own decisions is the way to go. Parents should be the ones educating and policing their own children.
 
summerteeth said:
Different drugs with different potential dangers and risks. I don't think it helps anybody to lie about it, but the way he nonchalantly compares the two is rather irresponsible, especially without prefacing it with how dangerous alcohol can be. I don't think it is a wise decision to apply our lax views of alcohol to marijuana as well. 6% of teens use marijuana daily, that doesn't happen with alcohol and this is going to impact their cognitive ability and their ability to learn in the classroom as well as lower their IQ if the use is prolonged. That's about 2 students in each classroom that this happens to, and you have the President of the United States essentially saying that it's not that bad. Smoking marijuana regularly has profound effect on your behavior and can cause lethargy because it depletes your dopamine levels.
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1) What a load of bull. If a drug is legal and another drug isn't, it is perfectly logical to question which drug poses a greater danger to society and alcohol wins that contest by a long shot.

Deaths from alcohol per year = 40,000 deaths

Deaths from cannabis = 0.0 deaths

But the President can't acknowledge this because cannabis has different risks? To be frank, those risks are minuscule compared to 40,000 people dying every year and THANK GOD we finally have a president who can openly admit this.

2) No one is advocating teen use. If weed becomes legal it will be legal for adults only. Teens get it easier now because drug dealers don't ask for ID.

3) Moderation is key. Too much of anything is bad for you.

And regarding lethargy, like I say, “There's a difference between a drug draining away your ambitions and a drug helping you realize you have everything you need to be content.”
 
summerteeth said:
He is an extreme outlier, looking at one data point to come to a conclusion is not logical. In no means am I saying that if you smoke marijuana regularly in your adolescence you cannot be successful. That being said there are some serious risks in doing so, and as a society we should continue to stigmatize the use of this drug. As an individual you are better off not using and as a result society will be better off as well.
Click to expand...

Society is better of eating only fruits and vegetables. We'd save fortune in health care cost.

But life isn't just about efficiency. We're not machines. Pleasure and leisure are also important details of the human condition. People should be allowed to eat food that's bad for them. Have risky sex for pleasure. Drink a beer to feel a buzz. You don't have to do it yourself but whether other people want to do so during their brief existence is none of your business.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde
 
Deaths from peanuts = 100 deaths

Why does everyone always forget the peanuts? Am I the only sane man left who recognizes this delicious, crunchy threat?!?
 
No sumerteeth, every single molecule that permeates us changes us. Life is risk. Even if you want to stack things in a little danger pyramid, a long list of other chemicals should be avoided before cannabis (calling it marijuana is stigmatizing it to) crystallized sugar and caffeine come to mind.
 
summerteeth said:
Different drugs with different potential dangers and risks. I don't think it helps anybody to lie about it, but the way he nonchalantly compares the two is rather irresponsible, especially without prefacing it with how dangerous alcohol can be. I don't think it is a wise decision to apply our lax views of alcohol to marijuana as well. 6% of teens use marijuana daily, that doesn't happen with alcohol and this is going to impact their cognitive ability and their ability to learn in the classroom as well as lower their IQ if the use is prolonged. That's about 2 students in each classroom that this happens to, and you have the President of the United States essentially saying that it's not that bad.
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By all accounts it seems Cannabis is far less harmful (not "no worse than") alcohol. For starters it's never killed anybody, how many millions does alcohol (& cigarettes) kill every year?

Regarding the "teens will use it" argument. Well, they already are, it's readily available everywhere. There's a good argument that making it legal will make it harder to obtain for any one under the legal age (remember, no one is arguing to make it legal for kids & teens to use), dealers don't check for I.D.

Smoking marijuana regularly has profound effect on your behavior and can cause lethargy because it depletes your dopamine levels.
Click to expand...

I'd like to direct you to Joe Rogan, 46 year old martial artist, comedian, UFC commentator & podcaster:
http://instagram.com/p/jupeQzpyEX/#

Always striving to learn more and better himself in his crafts.

In fact, go to youtube, search "joe rogan george st pierre turning side kick" (I can't post it because of swearing) and watch him teach GSP how to do some kicks properly.

He uses Cannabis regularly (and I do mean regularly, though he didn't start using until his 30's), and cites it, and other psychedelic drugs, as a big reason for becoming a more thoughtful & nicer person (how's that for "profound effect"?). You should check out his podcast, he's high in many (maybe even most) episodes.
 
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DarkSentinel said:
It's Florida. Nothing can cure stupid drivers except a complete and thorough overhaul of the DMV system. :o
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So true, half the people can't even see over the damn steering wheel, and the majority seem to not understand how to turn their turn signals on before they turn.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
1) What a load of bull. If a drug is legal and another drug isn't, it is perfectly logical to question which drug poses a greater danger to society and alcohol wins that contest by a long shot.

Deaths from alcohol per year = 40,000 deaths

Deaths from cannabis = 0.0 deaths

But the President can't acknowledge this because cannabis has different risks? To be frank, those risks are minuscule compared to 40,000 people dying every year and THANK GOD we finally have a president who can openly admit this.

2) No one is advocating teen use. If weed becomes legal it will be legal for adults only. Teens get it easier now because drug dealers don't ask for ID.

3) Moderation is key. Too much of anything is bad for you.

And regarding lethargy, like I say, “There's a difference between a drug draining away your ambitions and a drug helping you realize you have everything you need to be content.”
Click to expand...

1. Oversimplification. Different drugs, different risks. Not drinking alcohol responsibly can lead to greater risks, you can dies of alcohol poisoning or if you get behind a wheel you endanger yourself and others. That being said, drinking a glass of wine a night poses no risk and actually leads to health benefits, while smoking every night leads to the risks I already talked about. Using alcohol a certain way is extremely dangerous, but using it in moderation is not harmful to you at all, while smoking marijuana regularly is. Without this sort of clarification the President did the country a disservice.

2. Still has the same effects and can lower your IQ if you smoke it before the age of 25, while the brain is still developing.

3. That's just depressing.
 
First of all, guys, we should refer to it as "cannabis" not "marijuana". Though marijuana is the commonly accepted term nowadays, let's not forget it DID originate as a derogatory pejorative in William Randolph Hearst's yellow journalism campaign way back when to protect his timber industry interests, followed by Anslinger and his cronies to keep his Prohibition agents employed. Few seem to realize that different words have different connotations, and I believe that the further we steer clear of "marijuana" people will grpw less fearful of the subject, and the closer we'll step to legalization.

That being said, I wonder if with all this talk of "Executive Orders" by Obama in his SOTU last night—but the marked absence of any cannabis legislation—indicates that Obama (who is in his last term, by the way) will look to go out with a bang by signing an executive order to remove cannabis from Schedule I?
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
Society is better of eating only fruits and vegetables. We'd save fortune in health care cost.

But life isn't just about efficiency. We're not machines. Pleasure and leisure are also important details of the human condition. People should be allowed to eat food that's bad for them. Have risky sex for pleasure. Drink a beer to feel a buzz. You don't have to do it yourself but whether other people want to do so during their brief existence is none of your business.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde
Click to expand...

You can find pleasure in other ways. Again, I'm not at all coming out against legalization, I'm in favor of legalization. I'm just saying that just because it is legalized we shouldn't pretend like it is okay to use and we should still stigmatize its use. Your point about letting people do what they want is all well and good, but with an ever expanding government what others do has more and more of an impact on another. With Medicare, Medicaid, and now Obamacare other people have a greater impact on the individual. It does matter as a society how healthy we are, so in a way it is my business, the government has made it my business. I have similar views towards obesity, again this should continue to be stigmatized.

Moridin said:
By all accounts it seems Cannabis is far less harmful (not "no worse than") alcohol. For starters it's never killed anybody, how many millions does alcohol (& cigarettes) kill every year?

Regarding the "teens will use it" argument. Well, they already are, it's readily available everywhere. There's a good argument that making it legal will make it harder to obtain for any one under the legal age (remember, no one is arguing to make it legal for kids & teens to use), dealers don't check for I.D.



I'd like to direct you to Joe Rogan, 46 year old martial artist, comedian, UFC commentator & podcaster:
http://instagram.com/p/jupeQzpyEX/#

Always striving to learn more and better himself in his crafts.

In fact, go to youtube, search "joe rogan george st pierre turning side kick" (I can't post it because of swearing) and watch him teach GSP how to do some kicks properly.

He uses Cannabis regularly (and I do mean regularly, though he didn't start using until his 30's), and cites it, and other psychedelic drugs, as a big reason for becoming a more thoughtful & nicer person (how's that for "profound effect"?). You should check out his podcast, he's high in many (maybe even most) episodes.
Click to expand...

A. I realize teens use it now, the stat I wrote was about teenagers using marijuana when it is illegal. My point was that if the President says he marijuana isn't that bad, it sends a bad message to society and as a result it sends a bad message to teenagers that using it will be fine, but in actuality it presents very real risks to them. If marijuana loses its stigma, if adult society fully embraces using it what kind of message is that sending to our children? Kids pick up on what adults do and say and try to emulate them that's what growing up is all about.

B. Why would I care what Joe Rogan has to say. You have a person addicted to marijuana declaring its virtues...because that's a reliable source. He attributes drugs to this, but who knows if that's the case, it could simply be him maturing, typically as we get older we become calmer people anyways, especially a male exiting his 20's.
 
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