Discussion: Illegal Immigration and Other Citizenship Issues

[BlackLantern]

like Ive said before, maybe its just where I live...I really don't know anyone who would leave the house without ID or license

 

[Dr. Evil]

It's no different than carrying a passport when visiting another country.

 

[kane9321]

A judge has blocked the most controversial sections of Arizona's new immigration law from taking effect Thursday, handing a major legal victory to opponents of the crackdown.

The law will still take effect Thursday, but without many of the provisions that angered opponents — including sections that required officers to check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws. The judge also put on hold a part of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places.

U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton put those controversial sections on hold until the courts resolve the issues.

Opponents say the law will lead to racial profiling and is trumped by federal immigration law.

Ahead of Thursday, police across the state, which borders Mexico, were scrambling to train officers how to avoid racial profiling.

The hardest-line approach is expected in the Phoenix area, where Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio plans his 17th crime and immigration sweep. He plans to hold the sweep, regardless of any ruling by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton.

Arpaio, known for his tough stance against illegal immigration, plans to send about 200 deputies and volunteers out, looking for traffic violators, people wanted on criminal warrants and others. He's used that tactic before to arrest dozens of people, many of them illegal immigrants

Let's go officer Joe

 

[Kelly]

You're slow...lol


What it looks like she did was cross out in the Arizona Law, anything that is not already in the Federal Law, the Federal Law does not require them to carry papers with them.

 

[kane9321]

mmph

 

[BlackLantern]

You're slow...lol


What it looks like she did was cross out in the Arizona Law, anything that is not already in the Federal Law, the Federal Law does not require them to carry papers with them.

isn't there something in our immigration law that requires any resident alien or non naturalized citizen to carry their ID with them at all times??

am I mistaken?

 

[Marx]

You're slow...lol


What it looks like she did was cross out in the Arizona Law, anything that is not already in the Federal Law, the Federal Law does not require them to carry papers with them.

You are not required to carry your papers, but you are required to carry green card/permanent resident cards, and work authorization cards.

 

[BlackLantern]

You are not required to carry your papers, but you are required to carry green card/permanent resident cards, and work authorization cards.

that was it...thanks Marx

 

[chaseter]

So who wins the bet between me and Norm? I said the law would be overturned and he said it wouldn't but the judge allowed some to stay and some to go.

A tie?

But technically, she allowed federal law to trump state law so I win?

 

[dnno1]

It's just a temporary injunction. The U.S. Courts still have to hear the full case. It isn't quite over, yet.

 

[Kelly]

You are not required to carry your papers, but you are required to carry green card/permanent resident cards, and work authorization cards.

The wording is important there, as it is in this ruling.

Words are a tricky thing in law......



As far as winners and losers......IMO, this administration (notice I didn't say Federal Government), was given the right to say we won, but in reality this ain't over......and I believe will bite them in the ass about 3 months from now, and again in 2012.

 

[Marx]

The wording is important there, as it is in this ruling.

Words are a tricky thing in law......



As far as winners and losers......IMO, this administration (notice I didn't say Federal Government), was given the right to say we won, but in reality this ain't over......and I believe will bite them in the ass about 3 months from now, and again in 2012.

That's very true.

 

[DACrowe]

I see it now:

Tea Party/Arizona Law Supporters: Badges?! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!!!

Cue irony stage left.

 

[DACrowe]

The wording is important there, as it is in this ruling.

Words are a tricky thing in law......



As far as winners and losers......IMO, this administration (notice I didn't say Federal Government), was given the right to say we won, but in reality this ain't over......and I believe will bite them in the ass about 3 months from now, and again in 2012.

Sometimes it is important to put country over politics? But I thought Obama was nothing but a PR machine? Well this is not a good campaign ad for 2010. But it is a good day for America in the history books...

With that said, this won't be settled until it goes to the Supreme Court--

unless Congress passes a comprehensive Immigration Reform Law before then....



...Sorry about that. Yeah, this is going to have to go to the Supreme Court [wipes tears from eyes.]

 

[Matt]

No suprise really that the major parts of the law got overturned. That said, the Federal government should've kept their noses out of it. The ACLU and countless other groups could've sued over it. The federal government overstepped its bounds.

That said, I am curious as to how this part was rejected:

made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places.

Isn't that already illegal?

Anyhoo, I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need top to bottom immigration reform, including a comlete expansion of the INS which includes a massive investigation bureau whose job is to investigate land lords and businesses that hire and rent to illegals as well as do on spot inspections to make sure their employees give proper documentation. Make the consequence for hiring these people massive (I'm talking about enough in fines to put you in the red, losing your operating license, and property seizure if you rent to illegals.) and watch how quickly people stop hiring and renting to illegals. When they have no where to go or work, they'll stop coming illegally.

 

[Matt]

Sometimes it is important to put country over politics? But I thought Obama was nothing but a PR machine? Well this is not a good campaign ad for 2010. But it is a good day for America in the history books...

With that said, this won't be settled until it goes to the Supreme Court--

unless Congress passes a comprehensive Immigration Reform Law before then....



...Sorry about that. Yeah, this is going to have to go to the Supreme Court [wipes tears from eyes.]

Unless Kennedy dies within the next year or so, the Roberts Court as it currently stands will probably side with Arizona.

 

[Marx]

No suprise really that the major parts of the law got overturned. That said, the Federal government should've kept their noses out of it. The ACLU and countless other groups could've sued over it. The federal government overstepped its bounds.

That said, I am curious as to how this part was rejected:



Isn't that already illegal?

Anyhoo, I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need top to bottom immigration reform, including a comlete expansion of the INS which includes a massive investigation bureau whose job is to investigate land lords and businesses that hire and rent to illegals as well as do on spot inspections to make sure their employees give proper documentation. Make the consequence for hiring these people massive (I'm talking about enough in fines to put you in the red, losing your operating license, and property seizure if you rent to illegals.) and watch how quickly people stop hiring and renting to illegals. When they have no where to go or work, they'll stop coming illegally.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Matt]

This is basic rational choice theory of crime. If you make the penalty for the crime outweigh any benefit, then crime will be deterred. The problem is, you cannot deter people who have nothing to lose. The worst conditions in America are better than what these people have in Mexico. We need to start going after people who aide illegals by giving them employment and shelter as they are criminals as well. And these people do have things to lose. If the fines are far more excessive than any amount saved by hiring illegals, people will stop hiring them. If you can lose your properties by renting to illegals, people will stop renting to them.

Just make the risk outweigh the cost and it will stop.

 

[Marx]

That is something I have long advocated as well.

 

[Kelly]

Unless Kennedy dies within the next year or so, the Roberts Court as it currently stands will probably side with Arizona.

Yes, this will end up there....but it might be the Obama Administration taking it there because oddly enough even though the 9th Circuit Court is the most liberal of all courts in the country, they have a history of make judgments in favor of state's rights.....

 

[Matt]

The Obama administration ought not have ever been involved. This is a terrible political move. I know Obama thinks he is winning over the Latino population, but if this is the most that he does for them they will not be appeased. Especially since a great many of the legal Latinos I've spoken to resent illegals anyhow. All this is going to do is make the Administration come off as even more overbearing and in violation of state rights which is going to turn off independents even more than they already have.

Obama should've just let the ACLU deal with this.

 

[Marx]

SENATOR KYL SUPPORTS REPEAL OF 14TH AMENDMENT
http://current.com/1mrm84c

 

[Schlosser85]

Anyhoo, I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need top to bottom immigration reform, including a comlete expansion of the INS which includes a massive investigation bureau whose job is to investigate land lords and businesses that hire and rent to illegals as well as do on spot inspections to make sure their employees give proper documentation. Make the consequence for hiring these people massive (I'm talking about enough in fines to put you in the red, losing your operating license, and property seizure if you rent to illegals.) and watch how quickly people stop hiring and renting to illegals. When they have no where to go or work, they'll stop coming illegally.

Amen.

When people see the employers who hire illegals being fined out of existence and put in a cardboard box under a bridge, they'll sure as hell think twice about hiring illegals.

 

[Matt]

Yep. That said, I agree with, not repealing, but tweaking the 14th amendment. Anchor babies are becoming far too big of a problem. I used to support simply telling the illegals, "Your kid has legal status but you don't, so either give him up for adoption or get the hell out and take him with you," but then you'll have the ACLU whining and it creates problems in the future. I think its reached the point where the child of illegals should not have citizenship. Only the children of citizens/legal aliens working towards obtaining citizenship.

 

[Marx]

While I can completely agree that 'anchor babies' are becoming a bigger and bigger problem, it's a very slippery slope when you start down Senator Kyl's train of thought.