Discussion: Illegal Immigration and Other Citizenship Issues

[A&W]

Maybe if all they had to do was wait in a line at Ellis Island, fill out some paperwork and then be an American by the end of the day, we wouldn't have all these problems.

A lot of times people who are arguing against letting the illegal immigrants stay try to instead argue that it's easy to come here legally. And they point to the fact that millions of people have done it successfully over the centuries. Some here have even pointed to the fact that their great great grandparents did it.

They never tell you the whole story. It was different back then. The government wasn't in the business of trying to coherece you into coming here illegally.

 

[A&W]

Fear does a lot though. Even if the actual shootings only lasted 30 days, the psychological effects and the reputation that created would last longer.

(I'm just speaking hypothetically)

If you just sit back and wait in Mexico for this 30 days to pass than your not going to be traumatized like that because your not going to experience it. Just like in order for a person to experience PTS from an explosion in Iraq, they actually have to be in Iraq.

Chances are the only people who would end up being traumatized are Americans who were mistaken for illegal immigrants.

 

[Schlosser85]

But word would spread, and how could they know it was only going to last 30 days?

 

[Darthphere]

But word would spread, and how could they know it was only going to last 30 days?

Because that type of thing would have a time limit announced. Terrible example, but it would be like the beginning and end of hunting season. You just can't say "Ok guys, start shooting now, we'll let you know when to stop, if ever."

 

[Schlosser85]

It could be said to the "shooters", not necessarily broadcast to the entire general population.

It would be more effective if it wasn't, actually. That way they would still have the fear afterwards, not knowing for sure when it was safe. And doing another 30 days a few weeks later would only increase the dread of crossing the border.

I'm just playing hypothetical scenario here.

 

[Darthphere]

It would never work like that because even if it was made secretive, it would leak somehow.

Also, I think you would have to apply for a license just like when you're hunting so you can keep track of who's doing what. People operating without a license would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

You also have to establish if you're shooting to kill or shooting to maim. Because if you shoot them on this side of the border and they're not dead, whose going to pay for the medical bills.

 

[Schlosser85]

I agree that it would have to be trained professionals, otherwise you'd have every yahoo with a gun out there to shoot them there illegals and probably shooting Hispanic border patrol agents or Minutemen, and probably taking their beers with them and shooting each other and themselves.

Needless to say, the task of gunning down illegal immigrants wouldn't attract the best and brightest. It'd be a combination of sociopaths and drunken racists. The same types who join the military hoping for a chance to legally kill people.

 

[Ugfugly]

Here's what they should do to tighten up the border.

Part 1

Bring back all the troops from abroad, National Guard, Army, all of them.
Set up bases or permanent camps on intervals throughout the borders.
Have a shoot to kill order for anyone trying to cross illegally.


Part 2

Streamline immigration. Give them 2 options

Option 1 - Have the typical bureaucratic way with paperwork, filing fees etc. Make a point system to bump them up from the line. You know, education is 10 points, financial stability (X amount of money in bank) another 10 points and so on. Don't make the waiting list be hundreds of years, have a limit (say 20years tops).

Option 2 - Expedited process. Have the head of the family enlist in the military for a minimum of 6 years to show their devotion to the country. This will give them and their dependents an expedited process in their application and maybe a reduced fee.
This benefits both the country AND the immigrant. We have better defense, more armed forces etc. The immigrant is trained in a trade also will have the chance and opportunity to earn money before even moving to the US. It's a win win situation.

 

[Kelly]

Your option 2 would work in the military of the 18th century, not the military of the 21st century.

 

[Marx]

I don't think anyone should be forced to enlist in the military to 'prove their dedication and loyalty' to this country.

 

[Ugfugly]

It's not forced. It's an option.

 

[Kelly]

Doesn't matter, the problem is that many would take option 2, and you would have people speaking very little English, reading even less English, many with an education less than high school......in a military that requires all of those.

 

[StorminNorman]

An interesting aspect of the 14th amendment that I learned today is that the 14th amendment did not give citizenship to Native Americans due to their national allegiance to their tribes (as was supported by a later Supreme Court ruling).

Now at the same time a 1890's Supreme Case ruled that the child of non-citizen Chinese immigrants did get citizenship, which makes the issue murkier.

I would argue, though, that due to those Chinese immigrants not-being defiantly "illegal" renders that not as a damning evidence to support anchor babies.

For the record, I have been pro-anchor baby (legally, not principally) - but this has piqued my curiosity. I am going to investigate the history of the 14th amendment in order to sharpen my opinion.

 

[Marx]

SENATOR MCCAIN CLARIFIES STANCE ON 'ENDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP'
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ort-ending-birthright-citizenship.php?ref=fpi

 

[Darthphere]

Here's what they should do to tighten up the border.

Part 1

Bring back all the troops from abroad, National Guard, Army, all of them.
Set up bases or permanent camps on intervals throughout the borders.
Have a shoot to kill order for anyone trying to cross illegally.


Part 2

Streamline immigration. Give them 2 options

Option 1 - Have the typical bureaucratic way with paperwork, filing fees etc. Make a point system to bump them up from the line. You know, education is 10 points, financial stability (X amount of money in bank) another 10 points and so on. Don't make the waiting list be hundreds of years, have a limit (say 20years tops).

Option 2 - Expedited process. Have the head of the family enlist in the military for a minimum of 6 years to show their devotion to the country. This will give them and their dependents an expedited process in their application and maybe a reduced fee.
This benefits both the country AND the immigrant. We have better defense, more armed forces etc. The immigrant is trained in a trade also will have the chance and opportunity to earn money before even moving to the US. It's a win win situation.

It's not forced. It's an option.

So every other American citizen shows their loyalty and devotion to the US just by being born here? We're supposed to be a land of equals.

 

[Kelly]

There will always be an inequality as far as those citizens born in the US and those that are not....

I didn't pay 10s of 1000s of dollars to become a citizen....I was simply born here, but a teacher friend of mine from France did....

I don't advocate the whole joining the army thing either.....but to think that we are truly a land of equalities is naive...

The fact that I can become President, but he can't shows that....

 

[Darthphere]

There will always be an inequality as far as those citizens born in the US and those that are not....

I didn't pay 10s of 1000s of dollars to become a citizen....I was simply born here, but a teacher friend of mine from France did....

I don't advocate the whole joining the army thing either.....but to think that we are truly a land of equalities is naive...

The fact that I can become President, but he can't shows that....

Well I did say "supposed to be".

 

[Kelly]

Point taken....

 

[Marx]

Kel raises an interesting question...does anyone believe that naturalized citizens should be able to become President of the United States?

 

[Kelly]

I don't think some people born here should become President of the United States...

 

[Paradoxium]

Sure so the birthers can shut up.

 

[StorminNorman]

Kel raises an interesting question...does anyone believe that naturalized citizens should be able to become President of the United States?

I don't see why not.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Jailing immigrants for fun and profit

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Kel raises an interesting question...does anyone believe that naturalized citizens should be able to become President of the United States?

but what about Louie Gomert's terror babies? Do you want one of them to become president? Hugo Chavez is already filling our country with socialist infants through his Mexican socialist pipeline.

 

[dnno1]

Here's what they should do to tighten up the border.

Part 1

Bring back all the troops from abroad, National Guard, Army, all of them.
Set up bases or permanent camps on intervals throughout the borders.
Have a shoot to kill order for anyone trying to cross illegally.


Part 2

Streamline immigration. Give them 2 options

Option 1 - Have the typical bureaucratic way with paperwork, filing fees etc. Make a point system to bump them up from the line. You know, education is 10 points, financial stability (X amount of money in bank) another 10 points and so on. Don't make the waiting list be hundreds of years, have a limit (say 20years tops).

Option 2 - Expedited process. Have the head of the family enlist in the military for a minimum of 6 years to show their devotion to the country. This will give them and their dependents an expedited process in their application and maybe a reduced fee.
This benefits both the country AND the immigrant. We have better defense, more armed forces etc. The immigrant is trained in a trade also will have the chance and opportunity to earn money before even moving to the US. It's a win win situation.

What a waste of the taxpayers money. It is obviously cheaper to just try and incarcerate those who actually commit warranted crimes in this country. The penalty for illegal entry into this country should be no more severe than a moving violation and should not warrant any shoot to kill orders.