Discussion: North Africa & Southwest Asia Regional Issues II

[8wid]

Who gave them those signs NATO? It reminds me of the pro-US propaganda like the statue of Saddam pulled down in Bagdad as Iraq fell in 2003.

 

[DACrowe]

It does remind me of the American flags and Bush photos Baghdad citizens waved around "triumphantly" after US troops entered the city. It didn't mean Iraq was ready to become a neocon 10-year-long nation building experiment.

That is why I stress while it is great now, that we just need to see Libya stabilize and get out before we get sucked into a nation building project like Bush did (twice) and then resentment will grow on both sides. For now though, I like it.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Let NATO help rebuild. We need to keep our noses out of it.

 

[Dr. Evil]

If they are the Fantastic 4, which one of them is The Thing?

 

[terry78]

If they are the Fantastic 4, which one of them is The Thing?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

So... in his compound, Gadaffi had a photo album purely dedicated to Condeleeza Rice. Dozens of candids from some diplomatic meeting she had there. Don't know if he admired her (in keeping with his pan-African nationalism and by extension his respect for African-Americans in high leadership positions) or if he just had a huge crush on her. Perhaps a bit of both.

 

[chamber-music]

Former British foreign secretary Jack Straw had a crush on Condeleeza Rice too and Hillary Clinton had a crush on his successor David Milband.

Makes you wonder what the hell goes on at those diplomatic meetings...

 

[Paradoxium]

So the rebels don't like blacks and has been targeting them. Via WaPo

A few minutes’ drive from the fire station, at least 15 bodies, most of them Gaddafi’s black African supporters, lay rotting in the sun at a traffic junction outside his Bab al-Aziziyah complex. Several of the dead wore green pieces of cloth wrapped around their wrists to signal loyalty to the Gaddafi regime.

The worst treatment of Gaddafi loyalists appeared to be reserved for anyone with black skin, whether they hailed from southern Libya or from other African countries. Darker-skinned prisoners were not getting the same level of medical care in a hospital in rebel-held Zawiyah as lighter-skinned Arab Libyans, Eltahawy said.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

So the rebels don't like blacks and has been targeting them. Via WaPo

Gadaffi's mercenaries were hired from African countries such as Chad and Niger. It may be unfair, but of course they're going to be cautious around them... and fear and resentment may fuel violence or neglect towards them (since most people from those countries were aligning with Gadaffi's regime, not with the rebels). Hopefully things settle down soon and people come back to their senses.

 

[8wid]

Somalia famine: UN warns of 750,000 deaths

 

[hippie_hunter]

Former British foreign secretary Jack Straw had a crush on Condeleeza Rice too and Hillary Clinton had a crush on his successor David Milband.

Makes you wonder what the hell goes on at those diplomatic meetings...

There were also articles about the relationship between Rice and her Canadian counterpart Peter MacKay.

 

[8wid]

'NATO bombed Libya back into Stone Age'

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Who gave them those signs NATO? It reminds me of the pro-US propaganda like the statue of Saddam pulled down in Bagdad as Iraq fell in 2003.

Oh c'mon! How would we organize that? We're not in the damn country. Do you think a NATO plane air-dropped huge signs of Obama and Sarkozy in the middle of a Tripoli rally? Do you think about what you're saying sometimes? Ugh... I'm sorry I'm only seeing this two months later.

 

[8wid]

Oh c'mon! How would we organize that? We're not in the damn country. Do you think a NATO plane air-dropped huge signs of Obama and Sarkozy in the middle of a Tripoli rally? Do you think about what you're saying sometimes? Ugh... I'm sorry I'm only seeing this two months later.

The CIA was actively playing in the conflict and so were members of the Western press, they could have easily given these out to them. There's a history of it in US military interventions.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

The CIA was actively playing in the conflict and so were members of the Western press, they could have easily given these out to them.

Yes, 'Operation: Hand Out Posters' was a crucial phase in the NATO campaign.

 

[8wid]

^Helping out their affiliations in the news media makes it quite possible to get these signs out or at least help them be set up.

 

[TheDragonator]

I think this song pretty much sums up the Middle East, and to some extent, the US, right now:

 

[DACrowe]

^Helping out their affiliations in the news media makes it quite possible to get these signs out or at least help them be set up.

Yeah because those signs were such a BIG deal in the West that I saw them all over....like three websites.

This is an example of creating a conspiracy theory by grasping at straws. As I said, it is similar to when Baghdad residents were waving signs of George W. Bush and little American flags in March 2003--albeit Libyans actually asked for our help at the international stage and Iraqis had their "liberation" thrust upon them. However, if we stayed in Libya for ten years as an occupying military, I'm sure that would change dramatically. Fortunately, the NATO operation in Libya ends this month.

 

[8wid]

One thing I was sick of was the footage of a bloody Gadaffi being broadcast across the globe as if it were necessary for western viewers to see it. He may be dead, but the war is still illegal and unjustified. Do we want to do the same thing in Syria next too? What about North Korea or Iran? There's no issue with broadcasting his image, but not that of Osama Bin Laden who is more important to have killed. This is a Libyan issue and should have been only their national concern.

 

[chamber-music]

Plenty of people in the West are intrested in Gadaffi's demise as he was heavily involved with terrorist activity in the recent past. His regimes state sponsored terrorism activity includes bombing a Berlin nightclubs killing three people and injuring hundreds of others , Bombing Pan Am Flight over Scotland killing hundreds of people, mudering a unarmed Britsh Police women in clod blood, funding numerous terrorist groups including the IRA, Red Bridges, Red Faction Army, he attepmted to radicalize numerous groups like aboriginals in Australia to over throw their white goverment.

As for it being a illegal who cares. Gaddafi was never going to give his people the free democratic elections they wanted he was a dictator who killed and maimed those who opposed him. The Libiyans time and time again asked him to hold elections or step down and he refused.

If Nato didn't help the rebels it would of been a massacre. Gaddafi was shelling the hell out of Misrata.

I'm not a fan of western intervention but if you ask the average Libiyan citzen if they are grateful for Natos help they will tell you yes as they may not of won on their own.

 

[8wid]

^You'll care if its legal or not when NATO can start justifying these types of interventions whenever it wants for how long it wants. Especially for Americans when Obama didn't go to Congress to get approval for this war. Their tolerance of it just allowed a legal president that president can send troops wherever he wants without any other government approval. This just happened again in Uganda. If America wants to lead NATO to attack Syria, Algeria, Iran, etc. they can do it with only the permission of the UN and executive action alone. Imagine if George Bush had had this power.

 

[LOBO3315a]

He did. People freaked out about it. But somehow Barak knows better so no one cares.

 

[8wid]

Syria 'using hospitals for torture' - Amnesty

Bodies of Gaddafi supporters 'found executed' in Sirte

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

He did. People freaked out about it. But somehow Barak knows better so no one cares.

If you're going to criticize our President, then at least spell his first name correctly. He's not a Mortal Kombat character.

Okay, you can now go back to talking about how NATO is so terrible for helping put an end to the tyrannical Gaddafi regime. The Libyan people were really against that and all.

 

[LOBO3315a]

If you're going to criticize our President, then at least spell his first name correctly. He's not a Mortal Kombat character.

Actually I was criticizing his supporters, not the President. But thanks for catching my misspelling. I'm sure it had something to do with my point.