Discussion: Planned Parenthood

[herakles]

No. I don't want any implants, especially ones that release hormones.

As for tubal ligation, I'm not sold on it given the risks involved. I've been using birth control for years and it's kept me pregnancy free so I'll keep going with that.

But the pill releases horomones as well?

Also

When does life begin to you? State a timeline.

IMO the moment the heart starts beating is when Life begins.

 

[Mechanix]

So you can't or won't define what constitutes life but you can tell me I'm wrong for defining what I think constitutes life?

I haven't called you or anyone specific a name or typed out any ad hominem attacks on your character. Yet, you have and my attitude is atrocious?

You call women who get abortions murderers. I would say that is an ad hominem attack.

You're using what you define as life as truth. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Mechanix]

If someone murders a pregnant mother, is it only homicide? Was Lacy Peterson's baby inside her not a life? How did her husband, Scott get convicted of double homicide (in CA of all places)?

Legally, anyone who kills a pregnant woman would be charged with double homicide in the States (Unborn Victims of Violence Act). But the Act specifically excludes abortion. The fetus is not a person, according to the Roe v. Wade decision.

So, even the law can't decide when life begins. No one can decide. And since no one can decide, calling a woman a murderer for getting an abortion is being horribly dramatic.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Human life should be valued no matter what. abortion to me is a selfish and cowardly act ( not talking about rape victims here). If your sleeping around with no protection and still abort then I have no respect for you at all. Now if you choose to sleep around and use protection but in the event it fails, the decision is yours, but I still find it to be awful that you would abort because YOU don't want to gain weight or deal with the stuff that along with being pregnant. I would rather the woman suck it up and look for a good family that WISHES they could have a child and go through the adoption process instead of throwing a human life away for your own selfish reasons.

 

[chaseter]

The law defines it but people don't want to be called a 'murderer' to get on with aborting their child with a guilt free conscious because they decided themselves. It's hilariously sad the lengths people go to convince themselves and others that they are justified in their selfish actions. Now we have people who can't define when life starts dictating to others that they can't create laws to protect life. Makes sense.

 

[chaseter]

You call women who get abortions murderers. I wold say that is an ad hominem attack.

You're using what you define as life as truth. It doesn't work like that.

I leveraged no personal attacks on anyone in particular. Calling a set of human ideals stupid, idiotic, selfish, dumb, dickish, etc. is not attacking anyone. You may think all Republicans are dumb.

You can't or won't define what life is so I sure will. Why can't you?

 

[Mechanix]

The law defines it but people don't want to be called a 'murderer' to get on with aborting their child with a guilt free conscious because they decided themselves. It's hilariously sad the lengths people go to convince themselves and others that they are justified in their selfish actions. Now we have people who can't define when life starts dictating to others that they can't create laws to protect life. Makes sense.

You're using your own definition of when life starts as an excuse to call women murderers and selfish. You're not the leading expert on conception and since it's a philosophical debate, there is no right answer.

There is no definition for when life starts. It's subjective. As such, spouting off your opinion as though it's fact does not mean you're right. It just means you're arrogant.

But keep on your moral high ground It just makes you look like an even bigger *****e.

 

[Mechanix]

Human life should be valued no matter what. abortion to me is a selfish and cowardly act ( not talking about rape victims here). If your sleeping around with no protection and still abort then I have no respect for you at all. Now if you choose to sleep around and use protection but in the event it fails, the decision is yours, but I still find it to be awful that you would abort because YOU don't want to gain weight or deal with the stuff that along with being pregnant. I would rather the woman suck it up and look for a good family that WISHES they could have a child and go through the adoption process instead of throwing a human life away for your own selfish reasons.

Why is it always about sleeping around to you? There are people in committed, monogamous relationships that don't want children. They have every right to have sex without being forced to carry or raise a child.

There are plenty of children available for adoption. Supply outstrips demand.

Also, a woman should just "suck it up?" As someone who will never have to go through pregnancy, your comment is childish, ill-informed, and just dumb.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

The thing that ticks me off the most is seeing women and marriage couples that WISH they could have children of their own struggle. And then see woman who act recklessly and sleep around with no protection and then get an abortion for their own selfish reasons. Even If you do use protection and end up pregnant, I would urge them to stop thinking about themselves for two seconds and realize it could be a wonderful gift to someone else out their who WANTS a child but can't do so on their own. That's why I just think abortion is just a awful selfish and cowardly act. I just have little respect for woman that got through with that (again this is not talking about rape victims).

 

[Mechanix]

The thing that ticks me off the most is seeing women and marriage couples that WISH they could have children of their own struggle. And then see woman who act recklessly and sleep around with no protection and then get an abortion for their own selfish reasons. Even If you do use protection and end up pregnant, I would urge them to stop thinking about themselves for two seconds and realize it could be a wonderful gift to someone else out their who WANTS a child but can't do so on their own. That's why I just think abortion is just a awful selfish and cowardly act. I just have little respect for woman that got through with that (again this is not talking about rape victims).

How many women do you know who have had an abortion? I know 3. None of them "slept around." They all used protection.

Do you go to abortion clinics and ask women how many partners they've had and if they used protection? How can you possibly know the circumstances behind a woman's decision to get an abortion? You just assume they're ****s and irresponsible, hey?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

The law defines it but people don't want to be called a 'murderer' to get on with aborting their child with a guilt free conscious because they decided themselves. It's hilariously sad the lengths people go to convince themselves and others that they are justified in their selfish actions. Now we have people who can't define when life starts dictating to others that they can't create laws to protect life. Makes sense.

true

 

[Mechanix]

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/04/23/10-worst-abortion-myths-and-how-to-refute-them/

Myth 8: If a woman doesn’t want to have a child, she should use contraception or abstain.
Fact: There is no contraceptive that is 100 percent effective. Even total abstinence fails when a women is raped. Over half (54 percent) of the women seeking abortions had tried to prevent the pregnancy during the month in which they became pregnant. Of the 46 percent who had not used contraceptives, many believed they were at a low risk for pregnancy or had concerns about contraceptive methods.

Myth 4: Abortions cause pain for the fetus.
Fact: Many physicians and medical researchers believe that fetuses don’t begin to feel pain until some time during the third trimester–after 99 percent of all abortions have been performed.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I'll pass judgement all day on murderers. So do you. The only difference is you don't think it's a life until it leaves the hospital breathing.

Birth control is not expensive. Neither are condoms. People who think they shouldn't be readily available are idiots and that is a side discussion.

I don't care what their reasons are for aborting. It doesn't change the fact that they are selfish and ignorant, resulting in the death of a human life. They are awful, selfish human beings. You can try and rationalize it all you want. They are no better than someone who drinks and drives and runs over a pedestrian. You make selfish decisions based on ignorance and you end up taking another human life.

Pretty much this. Even if your one of the people that don't want to have kids, you need to get the surgery done to make sure you don't have kids.

 

[chaseter]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17237979/...t/earliest-surviving-preemie-remain-hospital/

Tell that baby that it can't feel pain, Mechanix. Cite that you posted that scientists 'believe'. Side bar: if scientists can believe then God/Allah/Xenu are real according to science!

 

[Mechanix]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/13/abortion-myths_n_6465904.html

4. MYTH: Fetuses experience pain during abortions.
REALITY: Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 24th week of pregnancy.
Experts ranging from Britain’s Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists to the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists agree with that timeline. In fact, research from UCSF found that fetuses can't perceive pain before 29 or 30 weeks of development.

 

[Mechanix]

Pretty much this. Even if your one of the people that don't want to have kids, you need to get the surgery done to make sure you don't have kids.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/13/abortion-myths_n_6465904.html


Most women who have abortions are already mothers.
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create...tion=10 Abortion Myths That Need To Be Busted
Sixty-one percent of women who had abortions in 2008 were mothers, and 34 percent had two or more children, according to the Guttmacher Institute. That number only increased after the 2009 financial downturn. The National Abortion Federation told Slate that between 2008 and 2011, 72 percent of women seeking abortions were already mothers. A study from Guttmacher found that mothers typically have abortions to protect the children they already have; they simply cannot afford to raise another child.

 

[Mechanix]

Pretty much this. Even if your one of the people that don't want to have kids, you need to get the surgery done to make sure you don't have kids.

And that surgery comes with it's own risks.

Yours and chaseter's posts really reinforce how much sexism surrounds abortion.

 

[Schlosser85]

As has been pointed out in some detail by others, only about 3% of Planned Parenthood's financial resources go toward abortion. The majority goes toward things like sex education, cancer screenings, etc. Defunding PP based on breathless gossip of "selling baby parts!" would only make life and parenthood more difficult for the lower-income young mothers who need its services the most, not to mention their children.

Also, defunding Planned Parenthood wouldn't stop abortions. Re-criminalizing abortion wouldn't stop abortions any more than Prohibition stopped people from drinking. All it would do is drive it underground. Rich women would go get abortions in Canada, and poor women who get them in alleyways from quack "doctors" and end up dying of infection, just like in the "good old days" of the 1950s.

So frankly, some of the right-wing's crusading against abortion and Planned Parenthood comes across as a veiled attempt to subjugate women in general and especially lower-income women.

Also, while it's a gross exaggeration to say Planned Parenthood was "selling baby parts", what should be the alternative? Abortions are going to take place, whether they're legal or not, and the human tissue left behind could prove a very valuable resource for medical research that could save lives, which is otherwise difficult to legally obtain.

At a certain point, you have to set emotion aside and look at the situation objectively.

 

[chaseter]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/13/abortion-myths_n_6465904.html

4. MYTH: Fetuses experience pain during abortions.
REALITY: Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 24th week of pregnancy.
Experts ranging from Britain’s Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists to the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists agree with that timeline. In fact, research from UCSF found that fetuses can't perceive pain before 29 or 30 weeks of development.

Baby's can survive outside the womb earlier than that and respond to stimuli...so that is incorrect.

 

[Mechanix]

I'll go with the educated groups' findings.

 

[chaseter]

And that surgery comes with it's own risks.

Yours and chaseter's posts really reinforce how much sexism surrounds abortion.

I'm just not cavalier and selfishly careless in regards to unborn human life. I feel pro abortion proponents are selfish and reckless.

Agree to disagree.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

At the end of the day I think life is a blessing from God and should be treated as such. Everyone has a plan for their life and you never know what they will do. That kid that just got aborted could have been the one that would have grown up and found the cure to cancer. You never know... Also for those in support of abortion, how would you feel if you parents shared your views before they had YOU??!!

 

[Mechanix]

And I feel like the statistics show that selfishness and recklessness do not play as big of a part when it comes to abortion as the anti-abortion crowd would like to think.

But I doubt sexists would care about facts, anyways.

 

[Mechanix]

At the end of the day I think life is a blessing from God and should be treated as such. Everyone has a plan for their life and you never know what they will do. That kid that just got miscarried could have been the one that would have grown up and found the cure to cancer. You never know... Also for those in support of abortion, how would you feel if you parents shared your views before they had YOU??!!

Fixed. God is the biggest proponent of abortion.

And it wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't be born.

This is all philosophical anyways.

 

[Schlosser85]

The world is already overpopulated, massively so in some countries, and forcing women who don't want children to have them and then further flooding the foster care system with unwanted children and/or creating more "families" of teenage parents who feel their lives are ruined and come to resent their unwanted children, is not exactly an ideal situation either.