Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[Docker2.0]

I wouldn't be upset by either one. What's wrong with having specific racial requirements for casting specific characters?

Exactly! Good lawd man! It's like people want excuses to be racist! It's like poor rednecks that are on welfare but blame other people for being on it. Blacks do drugs so they shouldn't be on it, Mexicans(that includes Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and all other Latinos that speak Mexican/Spanish) are here illegally so they shouldn't be on it, Chinese shouldn't be on it because they are commies..........the list goes on and on.

 

[Laderlappen]

I wouldn't be upset by either one. What's wrong with having specific racial requirements for casting specific characters?

Well if you're open for both asian actors and black actors to play a specific role, then you don't have any racial requirements. You just don't want to hire white people.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well isn't racially discriminating illegal in many states?

 

[chaseter]

So you do have some standards!

No Thundercracks allowed though.

 

[chaseter]

Well isn't racially discriminating illegal in many states?

That doesn't apply to whites. Affirmative action is racially discriminating. But, this one is pretty blatant. Nothing legal will come of it. BUT, the legal and social firestorm if it was discriminatory against blacks...

 

[hellified]

Laderlappen is right.

Saying 'looking for anyone but whites' is not the same as 'looking for caucasian male'. It means there is no specified role to fill. They only want to make sure they don't hire white folk. You can't see that difference because you think it's ok. However, if it says 'looking for anyone but blacks,'...you think that's ok? Try and answer genuinely.

clearly theres a point to the play where creating a cast of white people is essential. The fact that its run for years now an no one has complained about the casting shows that people in fact get the point.

 

[hellified]

That doesn't apply to whites. Affirmative action is racially discriminating. But, this one is pretty blatant. Nothing legal will come of it. BUT, the legal and social firestorm if it was discriminatory against blacks...

who created affirmative action and why was it enacted in the first place??

 

[Octoberist]

clearly theres a point to the play where creating a cast of white people is essential. The fact that its run for years now an no one has complained about the casting shows that people in fact get the point.

Usually when people from the outside complain about 'race', they don't understand how Hollywood operates. I've seen it happen myself (being a lower tier person in the business). It's a very stubborn, bubble of a business with people coming from the same background - mostly rich and..white. And they'll take in outsiders, but those who look like them. White dudes.

So that's why you gotta be proactive and cast the stones for diversity, even if it's overly-calculated. I applaud Disney for willing to take the steps to do it, and actively do it. Besides, it looks good for PR.

 

[chaseter]

who created affirmative action and why was it enacted in the first place??

JFK over 50 years ago to right the course. Now it's law that you can't discriminate...except against whites. Equality, except if it benefits yourself?

 

[Kelly]

Yes it was JFK, but his was only for businesses, it has been added upon since then.

The beginnings go all the way back to FDR and Eisenhower.

 

[chaseter]

We could technically go back to Lincoln days but the 60s is when Civil Rights really got legal traction.

 

[hellified]

JFK over 50 years ago to right the course. Now it's law that you can't discriminate...except against whites. Equality, except if it benefits yourself?

* The 1790 Naturalization Act permitted only "free white persons" to become naturalized citizens, thus opening the doors to European immigrants but not others. Only citizens could vote, serve on juries, hold office, and in some cases, even hold property.

* White Americans were also given a head start with the help of the U.S. Army. The 1830 Indian Removal Act, for example, forcibly relocated Cherokee, Creeks and other eastern Indians to west of the Mississippi River to make room for white settlers.

* The 1862 Homestead Act followed suit, giving away millions of acres of what had been Indian Territory west of the Mississippi. Ultimately, 270 million acres, or 10% of the total land area of the United States, was converted to private hands, overwhelmingly white, under Homestead Act provisions.

* In the South, the federal government never followed through on General Sherman's Civil War plan to divide up plantations and give each freed slave "40 acres and a mule" as reparations. Only once was monetary compensation made for slavery, in Washington, D.C. There, government officials paid up to $300 per slave upon emancipation - not to the slaves, but to local slaveholders as compensation for loss of property.

* Jim Crow laws, instituted in the late 19th and early 20th century and not overturned in many states until the 1960s, reserved the best jobs, neighborhoods, schools and hospitals for white people.

* The landmark Social Security Act of 1935 provided a safety net for millions of workers, guaranteeing them an income after retirement. But the act specifically excluded two occupations: agricultural workers and domestic servants, who were predominately African American, Mexican, and Asian.

* Like Social Security, the 1935 Wagner Act helped establish an important new right for white people. By granting unions the power of collective bargaining, it helped millions of white workers gain entry into the middle class over the next 30 years. But the Wagner Act permitted unions to exclude non-whites and deny them access to better paid jobs and union protections and benefits such as health care, job security, and pensions. Many craft unions remained nearly all-white well into the 1970s.

* New Deal program, the Federal Housing Administration, that helped generate much of the wealth that so many white families enjoy today. These revolutionary programs made it possible for millions of average white Americans - but not others - to own a home for the first time. The government set up a national neighborhood appraisal system, explicitly tying mortgage eligibility to race. Integrated communities were ipso facto deemed a financial risk and made ineligible for home loans, a policy known today as "redlining." Between 1934 and 1962, the federal government backed $120 billion of home loans. More than 98% went to whites. Of the 350,000 new homes built with federal support in northern California between 1946 and 1960, fewer than 100 went to African Americans.

1790 to 1970...180 years of affirmative action for whites at the expense of others.

Do you really believe that 50 years of affirmative action rights that, a course that lasted well over 150 years??

you and other white people say YOU didn't do those things in the past therefore YOU are not responsible nor should YOU feel bad or shame for any of it..guess what..

I didn't make JFK enact affirmative action That happened before I was born therefore I don't feel responsible for it nor do I feel guilt or shame for it either no matter how much white people try to heap shame and guilt on blacks for its existence.

You see the white middle class was BUILT on institutional racism particularly in the 20th century. Whites in general were able to accumulate wealth mainly because they didn't have to compete fairly with nonwhites for jobs, housing education etc etc. so if affirmative action lasted for 150 years it would be just right.

I shed as many tears about AA as you do for the things that happened before it making it necessary in the first place.

 

[chaseter]

So your logic is hit back to get even...because we were all alive 150 years ago?

What whites accumulated wealth? The top 1%? Let's punish the other 60-something percent.

I like how you try to make an example of others putting the past on you and then you turn around and do the exact same. That's the new institutionized racism. People freak out over alt-right nazis at hotel buffets but but anti-white attitudes are a-okay. It's ok to be a racist towards whites. It's ok to be anti-white.

And yes, 50 years of affirmative action is enough. That's 3 generations. If you can't do something with your life after 3, what makes you think it will change at 6? 9? In 2 more generations, most people alive in the 60's won't even be alive anymore. I'm not paying for anyone to make up the distance caused by our ancestors. If you want to get payment from the sins of the past, those people are free to try and recoup lost money from the tribal leaders that sold their fellow brothers and sisters to the white slave traders. My ancestors were immigrants with nothing. The vast majority of whites didn't own slaves. Blacks even owned black slaves. But by all means, perpetuate the racist narrative that all whites are responsible for every situation every non-white is in now. Most whites don't have a family fortune. I bought my own house from a job I got by going to college that I paid for. You're right, I have zero tears for people that think they are owed something that occurred when they weren't even alive. Make your own life and quick demanding someone else give you one.

 

[hellified]

So your logic is hit back to get even...because we were all alive 150 years ago?

What whites accumulated wealth? The top 1%? Let's punish the other 60-something percent.

I like how you try to make an example of others putting the past on you and then you turn around and do the exact same. That's the new institutionized racism. People freak out over alt-right nazis at hotel buffets but but anti-white attitudes are a-okay. It's ok to be a racist towards whites. It's ok to be anti-white.

And yes, 50 years of affirmative action is enough. That's 3 generations. If you can't do something with your life after 3, what makes you think it will change at 6? 9? In 2 more generations, most people alive in the 60's won't even be alive anymore. I'm not paying for anyone to make up the distance caused by our ancestors. If you want to get payment from the sins of the past, those people are free to try and recoup lost money from the tribal leaders that sold their fellow brothers and sisters to the white slave traders. My ancestors were immigrants with nothing. The vast majority of whites didn't own slaves. Blacks even owned black slaves. But by all means, perpetuate the racist narrative that all whites are responsible for every situation every non-white is in now.

while its true most whites didnt own slaves and a few blacks owned slaves the reality was whites were removed from the institution of slavery. Blacks couldn't own white slaves or even indentured servants

1670 - Free blacks and Native Americans who had been baptized are forbidden to buy Christian servants.

That law forbids free blacks and indians from owning WHITE SERVANTS (christian=white) so while free blacks could own other blacks they couldn't own whites by law...That law effectively makes slavery chattel and also separates whites from nonwhites in the institution... Its the basis for all the race politics played out even today. Add to that all the exclusionary/discriminatory laws and systems that played out over the next 300 YEARS the vast majority of that time benefitting whites in general and white males in particular and you get what you see today.

Nothing happens in a vacuum and the events of yesterday and yesteryear does have an effect on the present and future whether you believe it or not.

Most whites don't have a family fortune. I bought my own house from a job I got by going to college that I paid for. You're right, I have zero tears for people that think they are owed something that occurred when they weren't even alive. Make your own life and quick demanding someone else give you one.

The Racial Wealth Gap: Why A Typical White Household Has 16 Times The Wealth Of A Black One

In absolute terms, the median white household had $111,146 in wealth holdings in 2011, compared to $7,113 for the median black household and $8,348 for the median Latino household. (All figures come from the U.S. Census Bureau Survey of Income and Program Participation.)

This is what is called the racial wealth gap.

Here are the three main factors driving the income gap between white households and black and Hispanic ones.

1. Homeownership

For most U.S. families, a home usually comprises the largest portion of their assets.

“Homeownership is the central vehicle Americans use to store wealth, so homeownership and access to homeownership are at the heart of that widening wealth gap,” says Ruetschlin.

But disparities in homeownership fall along racial and ethnic lines. Seventy-three percent of whites own a home, compared to 47% of Latinos and 45% of blacks.

The median white homeowner’s house is worth $85,800 compared to $50,000 for black homeowners and $48,000 for Latino homeowners.

Education

A college education is all but required to flourish in the labor market, establish financial stability and build wealth. But the gap in college attainment by whites versus blacks and Latinos has widened over the last decade. In 2011, 34% of whites completed a four-year college degree, whereas just 20% of blacks and 13% of Hispanics did.

One obstacle is the surge in college costs over recent years, forcing households to take on significant debt to send student to college.

But obtaining a bachelor’s isn’t enough for a black or Hispanic person to escape the racial wealth gap. The return on investment in college is much higher for whites than for blacks and Hispanics: A white family at the median sees a return of $55,869 from completing a four-year degree. A black family sees $4,846 and an Hispanic family $4,191.

Contributing factors to this disparity are the higher debt students of color may need to take on to attend college and discrimination in the workplace. “Even if you graduate from college, as a black college graduate, you’re faced with discrimination. So you might have done everything right, achieved the skills you need to succeed, but you won’t see a higher return. The other issue with education is that black college graduates come out with higher debt levels so they start out behind in terms of asset building,” says Ruetschlin.

Labor Markets

Labor markets can provide economic security through earned income, employer-provided health coverage, paid leave and workplace retirement plans. But inequality in the labor market is responsible for 20% of the growth in the racial wealth gap in the last 25 years, and unemployment another 9%.

Disparate outcomes in the labor market can come from employment discrimination, geographic barriers to jobs and differing levels of social capital.

The typical white family earns $50,400, while the typical black family earns $32,038, and the typical Latino family, $36,840.

“In the labor market, the wealth return to a dollar of income is first determined by how much of that income you have the opportunity to save,” says Ruetschlin. “If you are facing a wealth gap of 80 cents for every dollar a white family makes, that makes you 20% less able to put that dollar into savings, because you may need all of those dollars to fill your consumption needs.”

Additionally, black and Latino families earn a lower return on their incomes, meaning they are less able to turn each additional dollar of income into wealth. A white family will typically see a return of $19.51 for each dollar earned, while a black family will see only $4.80 in return and Latino families $3.63.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurash...times-the-wealth-of-a-black-one/#3c6c7bc36c5b

thats THIS century....not about slavery or the 60s..the bottom line is as a white person and a white male in particular you benefit (much of it in ways youre not even aware of) from a societal system that's been built on racism whether or not you know it or acknowledge it.

 

[DeadPresident]

The weird thing about all your diatribes is all you can do is point out differences between races, and your automatic assumption is that difference/disparity = discrimination. Why is that?

Imagine applying this logic to everything? Using your logic there's clearly a massive conspiracy not just by whites to subjugate and disenfranchise black and Hispanic Americans, there's an even bigger conspiracy by Asian Americans to subjugate and disenfranchise everyone else. I mean, how else could they possibly be earning so much more money than those pesky whites that have infested every level of American society? I mean clearly if your logic is that there's a difference in earnings there must be racism then Asians are the most racist people out there, right?

Your arguments only seem vaguely coherent when you eliminate as much context and data as possible and prop it up with extremely sophomoric conjecture. I mean, is it possible that white families have a higher return because they simply make better financial decisions? Perhaps this is about education and not about some kind of racist conspiracy? Another hole in your little narrative is you claim that racist policies from almost 400 years ago are impacting today, while Japanese Americans were held in internment camps and had their possessions taken less than a century ago and most of Europe's Jews were wiped out around that same time, yet those groups managed to recover within two to three generations…why?

You seem to have a massive proclivity for *****ing and whining about something without offering any kind of hint at what you think would fix the situation.

 

[chaseter]

The median household income for blacks was lower in 2014, under a black President, than it was under Bush, an old white guy, before the recession hit.

*source - census bureau

Obama must hate blacks.

 

[hellified]

The weird thing about all your diatribes is all you can do is point out differences between races, and your automatic assumption is that difference/disparity = discrimination. Why is that?

Imagine applying this logic to everything? Using your logic there's clearly a massive conspiracy not just by whites to subjugate and disenfranchise black and Hispanic Americans, there's an even bigger conspiracy by Asian Americans to subjugate and disenfranchise everyone else. I mean, how else could they possibly be earning so much more money than those pesky whites that have infested every level of American society? I mean clearly if your logic is that there's a difference in earnings there must be racism then Asians are the most racist people out there, right?

Your arguments only seem vaguely coherent when you eliminate as much context and data as possible and prop it up with extremely sophomoric conjecture. I mean, is it possible that white families have a higher return because they simply make better financial decisions? Perhaps this is about education and not about some kind of racist conspiracy? Another hole in your little narrative is you claim that racist policies from almost 400 years ago are impacting today, while Japanese Americans were held in internment camps and had their possessions taken less than a century ago and most of Europe's Jews were wiped out around that same time, yet those groups managed to recover within two to three generations…why?

You seem to have a massive proclivity for *****ing and whining about something without offering any kind of hint at what you think would fix the situation.

and your arguments are the same...the model minority myth (which was debunked by an asian no less something you dismissed out of hand because of...reason you think a whole group of people consistently make better financial than another group of people just out of what coincidence?? you want to talk about sophomoric...

As far as Jews are concerned the dynamics of what happened to them as compared to blacks or native americans in america are not the same in length and scope and its beyond ridiculous to compare.

 

[chaseter]

You didn't answer why Asians make more than everyone else.

 

[hellified]

The median household income for blacks was lower in 2014, under a black President, than it was under Bush, an old white guy, before the recession hit.

*source - census bureau

Obama must hate blacks.

or the economic crash under bush hit blacks worse so they had a deeper hole to climb out of...

kanye might be crazy but he was right on the button here...

 

[hellified]

You didn't answer why Asians make more than everyone else.

as for your model minority assertion:

we need to remember that not all Asian Americans are the same. For every Chinese American or South Asian who has a college degree, the same number of Southeast Asians are still struggling to adapt to their lives in the U.S. For example, as shown in the tables in the Socioeconomic Statistics & Demographics article, Vietnamese Americans only have a college degree attainment rate of 20%, less than half the rate for other Asian American ethnic groups. The rates for Laotians, Cambodians, and Hmong are even lower at less than 10%.

The results show that as a whole Asian American families have higher median incomes than White families. However, this is because in most cases, the typical Asian American family tends to have more members who are working than the typical White family. It's not unusual for an Asian American family to have four, five, or more members working. A more telling statistic is median personal income (also known as per capita income). The results above show that Asian Americans still trail Whites on this very important measure.

Case in point, another reason why Asian American families tend to make more than White families is because, as described in the Population Statistics page, Asian Americans are much more likely to concentrate in metropolitan areas where the cost of living is much higher. Anyone who has lived in New York City (yours truly included) can attest to just how expensive it is to live in these cities. Therefore, Asian Americans may earn more but they also have to spend more to survive. In fact, research shows that within these metropolitan areas, Asian American incomes still trail that of Whites.


"Success" May Only Be Skin-Deep

Another telling statistic is how much more money a person earns with each additional year of schooling completed, or what sociologists call "returns on education." One of the first in-depth studies that looked at per capita income between Asian Americans and other racial/ethnic groups came from Robert Jiobu and is cited in Asian Americans: An Interpretive History by Sucheng Chan. Using this measure, research consistently shows that for each additional year of education attained, Whites earn another $522.

That is, beyond a high school degree, a White with 4 more years of education (equivalent to a college degree) can expect to earn $2088 per year in salary. In contrast, returns on each additional year of education for a Japanese American is only $438. For a Chinese American, it's $320. For Blacks, it's even worse at only $284. What this means is that basically, a typical Asian American has to get more years of education just to make the same amount of money that a typical White makes with less education.

Recent research from scholars such as Timothy Fong, Roderick Harrison, and Paul Ong, to name just a few, continues to confirm these findings that controlling for other variables, Asian Americans still earn less money than Whites with virtually equal qualifications. Once again, for each statistic that suggests everything is picture-perfect for Asian Americans, there is another that proves otherwise.

http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml

 

[DeadPresident]

and your arguments are the same...the model minority myth (which was debunked by an asian no less something you dismissed out of hand because of...reason you think a whole group of people consistently make better financial than another group of people just out of what coincidence?? you want to talk about sophomoric...

Debunked? How so? There isn't any causality given from what I can see, just observations. It's no different to what you're doing, making observations and claiming it must be as a result of discrimination. Again, what is your reasonable solution? All I see is someone complaining that they're not seeing a specific outcome and instead of making some suggestions about how that outcome can be achieved you're whining and posting the same article like three times.

You and several other regressives just jump to the disparity = discrimination line with zero proof, and of course if there's no proof of racism you have to fabricate it with things like implicit bias. I hate to have to be the person to break this to you, but everyone that falls into the dominant group in a given society is going to benefit. If a bunch of whites move to Japan are they going to receive the same treatment? If a bunch of whites move to Qatar, will they receive the same treatment? You're complaining about hegemony but calling it racism. I don't think there are enough articles, strong words, or even wars that will change human nature.

As far as Jews are concerned the dynamics of what happened to them as compared to blacks or native americans in america are not the same in length and scope and its beyond ridiculous to compare.

There is that minor issue of them being enslaved by the Egyptians for a few centuries, and then forced into ghettos across Europe for the subsequent millennium or so, followed by a few centuries of systematic pogroms and cleanses followed by the Holocaust. But other than that it's been relatively smooth sailing I like how you want to use historical context but only far back enough to fit your narrative.

Let's say everyone admits that black people win the oppression olympics, what then? How does complaining about any of this improve their situation, which I assume is what you actually care about?

 

[chaseter]

or the economic crash under bush hit blacks worse so they had a deeper hole to climb out of...

kanye might be crazy but he was right on the button here...

George Bush didn't cause the recession. So he's actually not on the button. Kanye is also currently in a mental hospital so I would trust his thoughts about as much as I would trust a fart after eating Taco Bell.

 

[chaseter]

as for your model minority assertion:

we need to remember that not all Asian Americans are the same. For every Chinese American or South Asian who has a college degree, the same number of Southeast Asians are still struggling to adapt to their lives in the U.S. For example, as shown in the tables in the Socioeconomic Statistics & Demographics article, Vietnamese Americans only have a college degree attainment rate of 20%, less than half the rate for other Asian American ethnic groups. The rates for Laotians, Cambodians, and Hmong are even lower at less than 10%.

The results show that as a whole Asian American families have higher median incomes than White families. However, this is because in most cases, the typical Asian American family tends to have more members who are working than the typical White family. It's not unusual for an Asian American family to have four, five, or more members working. A more telling statistic is median personal income (also known as per capita income). The results above show that Asian Americans still trail Whites on this very important measure.

Case in point, another reason why Asian American families tend to make more than White families is because, as described in the Population Statistics page, Asian Americans are much more likely to concentrate in metropolitan areas where the cost of living is much higher. Anyone who has lived in New York City (yours truly included) can attest to just how expensive it is to live in these cities. Therefore, Asian Americans may earn more but they also have to spend more to survive. In fact, research shows that within these metropolitan areas, Asian American incomes still trail that of Whites.


"Success" May Only Be Skin-Deep

Another telling statistic is how much more money a person earns with each additional year of schooling completed, or what sociologists call "returns on education." One of the first in-depth studies that looked at per capita income between Asian Americans and other racial/ethnic groups came from Robert Jiobu and is cited in Asian Americans: An Interpretive History by Sucheng Chan. Using this measure, research consistently shows that for each additional year of education attained, Whites earn another $522.

That is, beyond a high school degree, a White with 4 more years of education (equivalent to a college degree) can expect to earn $2088 per year in salary. In contrast, returns on each additional year of education for a Japanese American is only $438. For a Chinese American, it's $320. For Blacks, it's even worse at only $284. What this means is that basically, a typical Asian American has to get more years of education just to make the same amount of money that a typical White makes with less education.

Recent research from scholars such as Timothy Fong, Roderick Harrison, and Paul Ong, to name just a few, continues to confirm these findings that controlling for other variables, Asian Americans still earn less money than Whites with virtually equal qualifications. Once again, for each statistic that suggests everything is picture-perfect for Asian Americans, there is another that proves otherwise.

http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml

So you are saying Asian households have a higher median income because they typically have more people under one roof? Well if that's the case, the typical black household has more single parents than any other race. That would mean one less earner yes?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...on-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

If that's working well for Asians, why don't other races do that? My wife bought a house and had a roommate before we met. She couldn't have afforded a mortgage otherwise. Smart decisions are easy. But, it's a personal responsibility.

I am pro education so you don't have to point that out to me. I want everyone to have a great education K-12 and have state sponsored 1-2 year training in a craft or trade. College however should not be free. We can't afford that. That is up to the individual.

 

[hellified]

Debunked? How so? There isn't any causality given from what I can see, just observations. It's no different to what you're doing, making observations and claiming it must be as a result of discrimination. Again, what is your reasonable solution? All I see is someone complaining that they're not seeing a specific outcome and instead of making some suggestions about how that outcome can be achieved you're whining and posting the same article like three times.

You and several other regressives just jump to the disparity = discrimination line with zero proof, and of course if there's no proof of racism you have to fabricate it with things like implicit bias. I hate to have to be the person to break this to you, but everyone that falls into the dominant group in a given society is going to benefit. If a bunch of whites move to Japan are they going to receive the same treatment? If a bunch of whites move to Qatar, will they receive the same treatment? You're complaining about hegemony but calling it racism. I don't think there are enough articles, strong words, or even wars that will change human nature.

Its just a coincidence that youre examples of hegemony all fall along racial lines. I guess you think apartheid and jim crow laws were racial by coincidence too right? But it seems your solution to the issue is SHUT UP AND TAKE IT! Since as you astutely point it the dominant group will do things to benefit themselves and each other over anyone thats not like them then its incumbent on them to come up with a solution since they created and perpetuate the problem.

And I use the same articles because they best explain the issue. You dismissing them out of hand because YOU refuse to believe the truth is not my concern.

There is that minor issue of them being enslaved by the Egyptians for a few centuries, and then forced into ghettos across Europe for the subsequent millennium or so, followed by a few centuries of systematic pogroms and cleanses followed by the Holocaust. But other than that it's been relatively smooth sailing I like how you want to use historical context but only far back enough to fit your narrative.

Let's say everyone admits that black people win the oppression olympics, what then? How does complaining about any of this improve their situation, which I assume is what you actually care about?

I like how you cherry pick one or two groups that are doing relatively well NOW while ignoring other groups that aren't by hand waving their issues and essentially saying its their fault and theyre whiners for not taking it quietly.

Native Americans, other groups of asians, the australian aborigines, the maori in new zealand and countless other groups all over the world deal with discrimination (much of it based largely on ethnicity and skin color) and have the same results because of it and because jews NOW aren't suffering as bad that means those others issues are not valid. Is that seriously your argument??

George Bush didn't cause the recession. So he's actually not on the button. Kanye is also currently in a mental hospital so I would trust his thoughts about as much as I would trust a fart after eating Taco Bell.

Neither is it Obama's but he's responsible for blacks progress.. Tell me will trump be responsible too or will he get a pass because he's not black?

So you are saying Asian households have a higher median income because they typically have more people under one roof? Well if that's the case, the typical black household has more single parents than any other race. That would mean one less earner yes?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...on-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

If that's working well for Asians, why don't other races do that? My wife bought a house and had a roommate before we met. She couldn't have afforded a mortgage otherwise. Smart decisions are easy. But, it's a personal responsibility.

I am pro education so you don't have to point that out to me. I want everyone to have a great education K-12 and have state sponsored 1-2 year training in a craft or trade. College however should not be free. We can't afford that. That is up to the individual.

I think the larger issue is why is it a asian with a certain level of education makes less on a individual basis than a white man with the same level of education? Oh according to dead president its because theres a certain amount of discrimination thats acceptable that we all have to deal with so don't question it...

If thats the case then why do you guys keep complaining about affirmative action?

 

[DeadPresident]

Its just a coincidence that youre examples of hegemony all fall along racial lines. I guess you think apartheid and jim crow laws were racial by coincidence too right? But it seems your solution to the issue is SHUT UP AND TAKE IT! Since as you astutely point it the dominant group will do things to benefit themselves and each other over anyone thats not like them then its incumbent on them to come up with a solution since they created and perpetuate the problem.

I used racial comparisons because that's the dynamic in the States. If you want non-racial examples then look at the caste system in India, or ethnic and tribal differences in all of Africa, or religion in Europe. If a specific population is racially homogenous they'll find other areas of distinction.

Your inclination for histrionics and drama makes it difficult to have a reasonable conversation. I'm not sure how you leap from me explaining, rather objectively, how human nature operates, to me implicitly condoning racial discrimination - but alright. And again, as I asked in previous post a outline your operational and policy related changes that you suggest to achieve the result you want.

And I use the same articles because they best explain the issue. You dismissing them out of hand because YOU refuse to believe the truth is not my concern.

A single piece of research now counts as "the truth"? In that case my statements should be "the truth" since I've quoted people who use multiple sources and studies , by your logic?

I like how you cherry pick one or two groups that are doing relatively well NOW while ignoring other groups that aren't by hand waving their issues and essentially saying its their fault and theyre whiners for not taking it quietly.

Native Americans, other groups of asians, the australian aborigines, the maori in new zealand and countless other groups all over the world deal with discrimination (much of it based largely on ethnicity and skin color) and have the same results because of it and because jews NOW aren't suffering as bad that means those others issues are not valid. Is that seriously your argument??

The point is that there are groups that have gone through the same kind of treatment and they have managed to extricate themselves from their bad circumstances - which serves to prove that the environment an individual or group finds themselves in isn't necessarily the greatest contributor to a person's circumstances or the achievement of their goals.

You seem to have difficulty understanding a logical argument meant to illustrate a principle versus using a specific case to invalidate another specific case. That's not what I'm doing. I'm using the example to illustrate a logical argument. Your premise seems to be that until the environment changes no improvement can be made? My argument is a person's environment plays a significant role but it's not an absolute.

What would be far more constructive is if you outline what precise changes both by black America and American society need to be made to achieve the outcome you're looking for, or is your suggestion that as soon as external factors change that black Americans will mostly become as prosperous as everyone else?