Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[Kelly]

As far as the kidnapping charges, it also is important if it crossed state lines, etc. State vs. Federal...

 

[DeadPresident]

The victim went with one of the accused willingly. They were classmates. So it wouldn't be kidnapping, but likely false imprisonment based on the events afterwards.

Possibly coercion then I'd imagine. But since he's mentally handicapped and wouldn't know the difference which might be pertinent. I'm fairly sure in instances concerning children where someone lures or coerces a child to follow them kidnapping charges may still have applied, but there's a lot of technicality here. My gut feeling is it probably doesn't count.

Also, posting the story would have been good enough.

I'm not sure what you mean, I did post a link earlier?

Unsure if kidnapping or not. That's a difficult one. I would say yes because he's mentally challenged. That's like saying luring a child into your car with candy isn't kidnapping because the child enters willingly.

Yeah, strictly speaking it's probably not kidnapping since he was willing, but there might be stipulations regarding people who aren't of sound mind to make a distinction, but that'll probably have a lot of legal technicality attached.

As far as the kidnapping charges, it also is important if it crossed state lines, etc. State vs. Federal...

Ah yes, I always forget that the severity is compounded dramatically when the crime crosses state lines, which this incident didn't I assume.

 

[Erzengel]

They will be charged with a hate crime.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...d-out-sickening-facebook-live-torture-n703456

 

[Kyle]

Makes sense. Can't see how they could argue that it wasn't since it would be a hate crime if flipped (white teens 'kidnapping' a mentally challenged black person while chanting racial slurs and harassing/beating him - can't even bring myself to watch the video and never will, just sick).

 

[regwec]

Can they be shot? Please?

 

[Erzengel]

Makes sense. Can't see how they could argue that it wasn't since it would be a hate crime if flipped (white teens 'kidnapping' a mentally challenged black person while chanting racial slurs and harassing/beating him - can't even bring myself to watch the video and never will, just sick).

Well...

Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi told the Associated Press the attackers made some “terrible racist statements,’ but said investigators believe the victim was targeted because he “has special needs,” not because he’s white.

 

[Kyle]

Well...

Undoubtedly, that's what's so sick and repulsive about it. Did they want to hurt a white person? Yes. Did they go after one of the easiest targets they could? Yes. They projected all of their anger onto a white man who's mentally challenged because he'd have a much harder time defending himself - it's like sick people who target kids.

 

[hellified]

you guys crack me up..you think youre being profound or engaging in some kind of deep intellectual exercise when its clear many of you have no idea what racism is. Raising the question what would the reaction have been if four white guys...like its a hypothetical.. its an offensive question not high brow conversation.

google emmitt till or medgar evers or 4 little girls blown up in church and see what the reaction was you don't have to imagine it.

Nobody is arguing that white people have it worse, that it doesn't happen to minorities a lot and more, nor that the system at it's core is corrupt against minorities. Those are all common facts. You're arguing that the world is round to people who already know, and are saying, that the world is round. Merely that it happens and that any crime against anyone for their skin color is bad - that simple.

racism is bad now whose arguing that the world is round?...give me a break.

You guys can continue with the liberal **********..but its really not that much different from when racist conservatives raise the same topics. You just think youre better than them.

 

[Donner]

Wow, somebody's angry.

 

[Greens]

What the **** is going on in this thread?

 

[Kyle]

What the **** is going on in this thread?

None of us knows. I'm with everyone though in ignoring it at this point.

If you meant past couple hours, unfortunately a mentally challenged person was kidnapped (unsure what other word to use) and abused.

 

[Greens]

Yeah I was referring to that salty person..

 

[Handsome Rob]

A "typo?" Yeah, sure, whatever. Look at Yahoo Finance trying to hide the fact that they are the Donald Trump of financial search engines.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...yahoo-finance-tweets-out-worst-typo/96236410/

"Trump wants a much bigger Navy" is what they wanted you to think they were saying, but all they really did is show us what they really think by tweeting out "Trump wants a much n-word Navy."

We're on to you, we're triggered, and the outrage on social media is well underway.

OK, so my "outrage" is entirely sarcastic. But, seriously people, there are actually people angry about this tweet. Hypersensitive people who can find racism under every rock and around every corner, of course, but still people. And, they will not be deterred even by the knowledge that "B" and "N" are RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER on the keyboard.

 

[SuperT]

Oh gosh, get over yourself. No one is taking that seriously in fact, if you click on or search the hashtag #N*****Navy is basically all of us black people poking fun and making hilarious memes out of it.

 

[RockSP]

http://www.ibtimes.com/chicago-tort...t-side-apartment-police-investigating-2469923

Let's gloss over this.

As a bit of a thought experiment, what would the reaction have been if four white guys kidnapped and beat a mentally handicapped black man shouting "**** Barack Obama!" and "**** black people!" and streamed it on Facebook?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ault-avoid-prison_us_585ac1d0e4b0eb586484dd02

Let's see if those deviants in the story you linked get a slap on the wrist like these deviants...

 

[Kyle]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ault-avoid-prison_us_585ac1d0e4b0eb586484dd02

Let's see if those deviants in the story you linked get a slap on the wrist like these deviants...

The documentary '13th,' although haven't seen it yet, goes into the discrimination of the "justice" system. All of these crimes need to be prosecuted to the same level, not what it is today.

 

[K-Rayner05]

They will be charged with a hate crime.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...d-out-sickening-facebook-live-torture-n703456

Good, they deserve it.

Makes me sick that people like Don Lemon was trying to defend/justify the act

 

[hellified]

 

[Kyle]

Both deserve life sentences. Those who target a vulnerable victim of crime (children, mentally challenged, women) clearly know what they're doing and show calculation. Don't have any pity for those who target children or the mentally challenged, shows clear psychopathic behavior and thought patterns.

Although the system is corrupt. I was watching the '13th' documentary and it stated one thing that significantly helped waking people up was images and videos of heinous crimes being perpetuated. That it spurred people to action more than just words because they could see what was going on. And I can't help but think that ALSO played a role here. One was more sensationalized from the start ironically by the perpetrators video taping themselves. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if that was the case in both cases. Still would have been inequal and unfair, but would show the level of weight optics can have on a case - one is testimony only the other is basically a snuff film circulating. It's ugly and tragic acknowledging that, but I can't see how that couldn't have been a factor - that many people sadly only care when/if they see it.

 

[Kelly]

I think the fact that it was recorded, and has been shown on TV/internet, etc....24/7 since it happened has made a far greater impact on the country as a whole. They filmed themselves.....

Hellified, both are horrible, all should be punished in those cases, but there is so much more involved in all of this than just race. As far as what you posted above. there were 2 others involved, the picture you posted pleaded guilty to a lesser crime.

Should all three have done massive jail time? Oh hell yes, but their are constraints to the law that lawyers use on a daily basis. In the case in Idaho, their best evidence was physical evidence in the injuries to the young black boy....but far harder to charge them with a hate crime because extremely hard to prove "thoughts" while committing a crime. in the other case you have a video that spells out everything.

In the case in Idaho, a travesty of justice, but does that mean that these 4 should get a lesser sentence? No....

 

[DeadPresident]

People who use one miscarriage of justice to try and negate the rightful indignation over another crime generally possess fairly poor reasoning skills.

 

[terry78]

Also, and I'll just generalize because in a lot of these comparisons it's true, the white attackers often have more at their disposal to get out of punishment.

 

[DeadPresident]

Which is much more indicative of a class issue than a race issue per se. Affluent perpetrators never do as much time or even face the same charges as less affluent, comparable people.

 

[RockSP]

Plus, you run the risk of an unbalanced justice system, where "hate crimes" can be utilized, whether intentionally or otherwise, on behalf of or against favored or disfavored groups in a culture.

LOL! As if the justice system was ever balanced.

Both deserve life sentences. Those who target a vulnerable victim of crime (children, mentally challenged, women) clearly know what they're doing and show calculation. Don't have any pity for those who target children or the mentally challenged, shows clear psychopathic behavior and thought patterns.

Although the system is corrupt. I was watching the '13th' documentary and it stated one thing that significantly helped waking people up was images and videos of heinous crimes being perpetuated. That it spurred people to action more than just words because they could see what was going on. And I can't help but think that ALSO played a role here. One was more sensationalized from the start ironically by the perpetrators video taping themselves. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if that was the case in both cases. Still would have been inequal and unfair, but would show the level of weight optics can have on a case - one is testimony only the other is basically a snuff film circulating. It's ugly and tragic acknowledging that, but I can't see how that couldn't have been a factor - that many people sadly only care when/if they see it.

Unless the person committing the crime is a cop, it seems.

 

[hellified]

I think the fact that it was recorded, and has been shown on TV/internet, etc....24/7 since it happened has made a far greater impact on the country as a whole. They filmed themselves.....

Hellified, both are horrible, all should be punished in those cases, but there is so much more involved in all of this than just race. As far as what you posted above. there were 2 others involved, the picture you posted pleaded guilty to a lesser crime.

Should all three have done massive jail time? Oh hell yes, but their are constraints to the law that lawyers use on a daily basis. In the case in Idaho, their best evidence was physical evidence in the injuries to the young black boy....but far harder to charge them with a hate crime because extremely hard to prove "thoughts" while committing a crime. in the other case you have a video that spells out everything.

In the case in Idaho, a travesty of justice, but does that mean that these 4 should get a lesser sentence? No....

I haven't said anyone should get a lesser punishment or that any attack by a black person or people is justified. The discussion is about how things are perceived.

http://www.ibtimes.com/chicago-tort...t-side-apartment-police-investigating-2469923

Let's gloss over this.

As a bit of a thought experiment, what would the reaction have been if four white guys kidnapped and beat a mentally handicapped black man shouting "**** Barack Obama!" and "**** black people!" and streamed it on Facebook?

the issue of the question here seems to be that there would be massive outpouring of condemnation and immediate charges of hate crimes and people taking it to the streets in outrage. But since its black on white thats not likely to happen becuz its believed that black people get ridiculous amounts of sympathy for slavery or past injustices against them that they USUALLY get passes on stuff like that. Thats what "lets gloss over this" implies.

But what actually happened?

There WAS a massive outrage (the fact that it made the news period is indicative of this)...

The perps were charged with hate crimes.

The system worked flawlessly.

So whats the problem?

that white guy didn't record his crime or make it apparent race was factor in targeting that black kid he tortured so he gets to plead down to lesser charges and doesn't even have to do jail time for the actual crimes of battery and abuse etc.

The explanation here is well you see LEGALLY its hard to prove blah blah and TECHNICALLY evidence shows blah blah.. so it COULD be a miscarriage of justice but its hard to determine so we all just need to accept that and move on.

So lets do this experiment. If those 4 black people didn't record their crime and didn't mention race and were caught arrested and NOT charged with hate crimes would you be okay with the legality/technicality explanation for why that is??

Or would you believe that black people got away YET AGAIN with committing crimes where race was OBVIOUSLY a factor (the sheer fact that the perp was black and victim was white shows that) and this just shows that blacks get passes where whites can't all because of crap that happened 1000 years ago

Which do you think is a most likely response?