Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[Dr. Evil]

As an Asian American, we've also dealt with racism in this country, although not to the extent of Blacks and Hispanics, with the two major examples being World War II and the months following 9-11. But, Matt is right as the Asian American demographic has many ethnic groups, so the racism has been limited to one ethnic group rather than an entire race. It's still bad though. It's always been one specific ethnic group, like Japanese Americans or Arab Americans. Outside of Anti-Chinese Sentiment in the 19th century and those two major incidents, I've never heard of the prosecution of Vietnamese Americans, Korean Americans, Indian Americans or most of the Asian American ethnic groups at the hands of the US Government. The Asian American demographic has such a diverse swath of people, that we don't have a "Cesar Chavez" or an "MLK" in our demographic that will fight for our civil rights and instead each ethnic group has their own activists to do that. The Japanese Americans were trying to get reparations for the internment camps during the 70's and 80's. It wasn't anything that affected the Chinese Americans at all.

And the only time Asian Americans from the various ethnic groups protest is when we protest with other races. If a series of police shootings were to involve Asian Americans from one ethnic group, I think the odds of the other Asian ethnic groups protesting police brutality is slim unless other races are involved.

Asian Americans do not have a united voice, like African Americans or Hispanics do. We will tend to attach ourselves to other protest movements like the March for Women or LGBT rights. And the Asian stereotypes play a part in the racism. Arab Americans are portrayed as terrorists, when most are not. Indian Americans are seen as tech savvy or great in academics. Those of Southeast Asian orientation (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai and Filipino) are seen as "geniuses at math." Also Hollywood's tendency to whitewash Asian roles in Hollywood productions.

My point is that Asian Americans are not immune to racism in this country, but the entire demographic hasn't had to deal with the type of racism that African Americans and Latinos have had. Only certain demographics have been discriminated against on a national level like Chinese in the decade before the Civil War, the Japanese Americans during World War II and the Arab Americans today.

 

[Sithborg]

chicks?? oh the drama dp

I mean, your post was pretty much the perfect example of why people don't come forward about rape and sexual assault.

Seriously, threaten to sue those much less able to fight your highly paid team of lawyers is a proven Trump strategy.

 

[Erzengel]

As an Asian American, we've also dealt with racism in this country, although not to the extent of Blacks and Hispanics, with the two major examples being World War II and the months following 9-11. But, Matt is right as the Asian American demographic has many ethnic groups, so the racism has been limited to one ethnic group rather than an entire race. It's still bad though. It's always been one specific ethnic group, like Japanese Americans or Arab Americans. Outside of Anti-Chinese Sentiment in the 19th century and those two major incidents, I've never heard of the prosecution of Vietnamese Americans, Korean Americans, Indian Americans or most of the Asian American ethnic groups at the hands of the US Government. The Asian American demographic has such a diverse swath of people, that we don't have a "Cesar Chavez" or an "MLK" in our demographic that will fight for our civil rights and instead each ethnic group has their own activists to do that. The Japanese Americans were trying to get reparations for the internment camps during the 70's and 80's. It wasn't anything that affected the Chinese Americans at all.

And the only time Asian Americans from the various ethnic groups protest is when we protest with other races. If a series of police shootings were to involve Asian Americans from one ethnic group, I think the odds of the other Asian ethnic groups protesting police brutality is slim unless other races are involved.

Asian Americans do not have a united voice, like African Americans or Hispanics do. We will tend to attach ourselves to other protest movements like the March for Women or LGBT rights. And the Asian stereotypes play a part in the racism. Arab Americans are portrayed as terrorists, when most are not. Indian Americans are seen as tech savvy or great in academics. Those of Southeast Asian orientation (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai and Filipino) are seen as "geniuses at math." Also Hollywood's tendency to whitewash Asian roles in Hollywood productions.

My point is that Asian Americans are not immune to racism in this country, but the entire demographic hasn't had to deal with the type of racism that African Americans and Latinos have had. Only certain demographics have been discriminated against on a national level like Chinese in the decade before the Civil War, the Japanese Americans during World War II and the Arab Americans today.

As someone who's mostly Asian myself, I feel that racism against Asians even though as a group is the smallest minority group is often marginalized and not sexy by media standards.

For example if Steve Harvey or Howard Stern makes Asian jokes/comments, the media doesn't seem to jump on the bandwagon like when it's someone white making a Black/Hispanic joke.

I do agree Asians can't compare their plight to other races but racism is racism and it shouldn't be okay because Asians don't know what real racism is like.

 

[DeadPresident]

chicks?? oh the drama dp

You trivialize rape victims by just referring to them as "those chicks". The pathetic thing is you can't see how the way you engage with people makes them less sympathetic to you and your views and creates no positive discussion. You downplay things that happen to people who don't belong in your identity categories, those white women are "those chicks", but Rihanna becomes a "black woman". Honestly most of the people posting in here want similar goals to what you want, but the way you go about it makes it damn near impossible to have a civil conversation, almost everything you say is dramatized and designed to appeal to emotion rather than factual reality, and you hide subtly racist and sexist statements in your rhetoric.

 

[RockSP]

The problem isn't police violence against black people. The problem is violence in the black community that the police are paid to stop. It's not the 50s any more.

There is no one problem, so yes police violence against black people is still a problem. It's laughable that you think that form of violence ended in the 50s...especially given the internet age we now live in.

 

[DeadPresident]

As someone who's mostly Asian myself, I feel that racism against Asians even though as a group is the smallest minority group is often marginalized and not sexy by media standards.

For example if Steve Harvey or Howard Stern makes Asian jokes/comments, the media doesn't seem to jump on the bandwagon like when it's someone white making a Black/Hispanic joke.

I do agree Asians can't compare their plight to other races but racism is racism and it shouldn't be okay because Asians don't know what real racism is like.

I'm curious about the reaction in this thread to your post. One of the biggest issues I find with race discussions in regard to the US is how the Hispanic and Asian communities are erased to create a false dichotomy between white and black. It's a popular reaction to dismiss the personal experiences of whites in this thread due to their (alleged) economic and political privilege, I wonder if your and Dr. Evil's posts will get a similar response.

There is no one problem, so yes police violence against black people is still a problem. It's laughable that you think that form of violence ended in the 50s...especially given the internet age we now live in.

Have you actually looked at statistics of police related killings, and noticed how they're going down? And how hate crime statistics are going down? The USA is getting less and less racist, things are just over-reported on, if there are 15 incidents that get weeks-long media coverage you assume it's a lot because it's all you see - not because it's happening so frequently.

And as numerous posters have pointed out, the number of violent crimes committed by black Americans is disproportionately high compared to their percentage of population, correlating directly to their over-representation in terms of poverty as well. This is a class/economic issue first, and a race issue secondly. The poor are involved in crime more often than the middle class and upper class, black and Hispanic Americans are impoverished at a higher rate than other race groups, hence have circumstances more conducive to being involved with crime, hence engage with the police more often. It's really quite simple, there's no racist conspiracy.

 

[RockSP]

Have you actually looked at statistics of police related killings, and noticed how they're going down? And how hate crime statistics are going down? The USA is getting less and less racist, things are just over-reported on, if there are 15 incidents that get weeks-long media coverage you assume it's a lot because it's all you see - not because it's happening so frequently.

Yes, you've stated this opinion presented as fact before. You seem to think I'm basing what I say on news coverage, as if the news covers every incident. Or as if every incident gets reported.

As for US the getting less racist, hopefully so. But the number of hate groups here have risen, especially anti-muslim groups. So there's that.

And as numerous posters have pointed out, the number of violent crimes committed by black Americans is disproportionately high compared to their percentage of population, correlating directly to their over-representation in terms of poverty as well. This is a class/economic issue first, and a race issue secondly. The poor are involved in crime more often than the middle class and upper class, black and Hispanic Americans are impoverished at a higher rate than other race groups, hence have circumstances more conducive to being involved with crime, hence engage with the police more often. It's really quite simple, there's no racist conspiracy.

Good thing I never said anything about a conspiracy. I'm talking reality. You think only impoverished blacks (or latinos) get harassed by cops?

 

[Docker2.0]

Yes, you've stated this opinion presented as fact before. You seem to think I'm basing what I say on news coverage, as if the news covers every incident. Or as if every incident gets reported.

As for US the getting less racist, hopefully so. But the number of hate groups here have risen, especially anti-muslim groups. So there's that.



Good thing I never said anything about a conspiracy. I'm talking reality. You think only impoverished blacks (or latinos) get harassed by cops?

It's crazy how bold some of these hate groups have gotten! They are out in broad daylight now. Anyone who can't see that racism still exist(looking at two people but won't say any names)don't know how blind they really are.

 

[chaseter]

I'm curious about the reaction in this thread to your post. One of the biggest issues I find with race discussions in regard to the US is how the Hispanic and Asian communities are erased to create a false dichotomy between white and black. It's a popular reaction to dismiss the personal experiences of whites in this thread due to their (alleged) economic and political privilege, I wonder if your and Dr. Evil's posts will get a similar response.

It will get ignored because it doesn't fit their narrative. Or, it will get ignored because they only care about their own race/self interests...

 

[Charlatan]

As an Asian American, we've also dealt with racism in this country, although not to the extent of Blacks and Hispanics, with the two major examples being World War II and the months following 9-11. But, Matt is right as the Asian American demographic has many ethnic groups, so the racism has been limited to one ethnic group rather than an entire race. It's still bad though. It's always been one specific ethnic group, like Japanese Americans or Arab Americans. Outside of Anti-Chinese Sentiment in the 19th century and those two major incidents, I've never heard of the prosecution of Vietnamese Americans, Korean Americans, Indian Americans or most of the Asian American ethnic groups at the hands of the US Government. The Asian American demographic has such a diverse swath of people, that we don't have a "Cesar Chavez" or an "MLK" in our demographic that will fight for our civil rights and instead each ethnic group has their own activists to do that. The Japanese Americans were trying to get reparations for the internment camps during the 70's and 80's. It wasn't anything that affected the Chinese Americans at all.

And the only time Asian Americans from the various ethnic groups protest is when we protest with other races. If a series of police shootings were to involve Asian Americans from one ethnic group, I think the odds of the other Asian ethnic groups protesting police brutality is slim unless other races are involved.

Asian Americans do not have a united voice, like African Americans or Hispanics do. We will tend to attach ourselves to other protest movements like the March for Women or LGBT rights. And the Asian stereotypes play a part in the racism. Arab Americans are portrayed as terrorists, when most are not. Indian Americans are seen as tech savvy or great in academics. Those of Southeast Asian orientation (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai and Filipino) are seen as "geniuses at math." Also Hollywood's tendency to whitewash Asian roles in Hollywood productions.

My point is that Asian Americans are not immune to racism in this country, but the entire demographic hasn't had to deal with the type of racism that African Americans and Latinos have had. Only certain demographics have been discriminated against on a national level like Chinese in the decade before the Civil War, the Japanese Americans during World War II and the Arab Americans today.

Is saying a certain race is good at math really racism? I mean it's stereotyping for sure but it's also a compliment to their child raising and education ethics. Racism to me is thinking another race is inferior.

 

[hellified]

You trivialize rape victims by just referring to them as "those chicks". The pathetic thing is you can't see how the way you engage with people makes them less sympathetic to you and your views and creates no positive discussion. You downplay things that happen to people who don't belong in your identity categories, those white women are "those chicks", but Rihanna becomes a "black woman". Honestly most of the people posting in here want similar goals to what you want, but the way you go about it makes it damn near impossible to have a civil conversation, almost everything you say is dramatized and designed to appeal to emotion rather than factual reality, and you hide subtly racist and sexist statements in your rhetoric.

If OJ had married and was accused of killing a black chick (happy now) do you honestly believe his murder trial would be "the trial of the century" that would have garnered that much attention? If not why not?

I'm curious about the reaction in this thread to your post. One of the biggest issues I find with race discussions in regard to the US is how the Hispanic and Asian communities are erased to create a false dichotomy between white and black. It's a popular reaction to dismiss the personal experiences of whites in this thread due to their (alleged) economic and political privilege, I wonder if your and Dr. Evil's posts will get a similar response.



Have you actually looked at statistics of police related killings, and noticed how they're going down? And how hate crime statistics are going down? The USA is getting less and less racist, things are just over-reported on, if there are 15 incidents that get weeks-long media coverage you assume it's a lot because it's all you see - not because it's happening so frequently.

And as numerous posters have pointed out, the number of violent crimes committed by black Americans is disproportionately high compared to their percentage of population, correlating directly to their over-representation in terms of poverty as well. This is a class/economic issue first, and a race issue secondly. The poor are involved in crime more often than the middle class and upper class, black and Hispanic Americans are impoverished at a higher rate than other race groups, hence have circumstances more conducive to being involved with crime, hence engage with the police more often. It's really quite simple, there's no racist conspiracy.

except you have to explain why black and hispanic americans are impoverished at higher rates than other groups and lets be honest its not other groups its whites. Whites are the standard and benchmark upon which all others are compared.

 

[Hotwire]

So, they want to deport the illegals. Let's start with some Latino profiling, shall we?

Puerto Rican almost deported?

 

[DeadPresident]

If OJ had married and was accused of killing a black chick (happy now) do you honestly believe his murder trial would be "the trial of the century" that would have garnered that much attention? If not why not?

You're so far beyond getting my point it's not even funny. And if a pro athlete, one of the most noted of his time, had murdered anyone it would've been a trial of the century. You just want to read racial connotations into absolutely everything, you've got some kind of pathological persecutory complex.

except you have to explain why black and hispanic americans are impoverished at higher rates than other groups and lets be honest its not other groups its whites. Whites are the standard and benchmark upon which all others are compared.

Umm, no I don't, how about black and Hispanic Americans explain that? How about white Americans explain that? You see only by creating your little false dichotomy can any of your arguments make an inkling of sense. If America is so structurally racist, as you claim, why are only certain races affected? This is the salient fact that you and the other race-baiters can't get past.

RE the bold: No, let's be honest, that's what you have to do to make all your arguments seem even vaguely plausible. You use whites as the bench mark, you erase other ethnic groups when it suits you because you, like every other race-baiter, want to avoid having to look into problems that may exist within your own community and blame others first.

Again, if America is so racist and only benefits whites, why are Filipino, Taiwanese, Indian, Syrian and Lebanese Americans out-earning Irish and German-ancestry (the bulk of the US's white population) Americans? Another key question; it's not all black Americans that are economically not doing well, why is it that black Americans from Trinidad and Tobago, the West Indies, Jamaica, Barbados and Ghana are earning 25% more than other black Americans? Why is racism not affecting them, since this is about race, right? Or wait, maybe it isn't, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

Either you need to stop using income to try and support your arguments, or you need to get your head out of the sand and realize in terms of income there's no weird racist conspiracy going on. Don't you find it odd that the ethnicities that earn the most are the ones that culturally value education? Maybe think about practical reasons for causality from time to time instead of always suspecting every white American secretly subscribes to Klan newsletters and has wooden crosses and kerosene in their garage.

 

[chaseter]

If OJ had married and was accused of killing a black chick (happy now) do you honestly believe his murder trial would be "the trial of the century" that would have garnered that much attention? If not why not?


except you have to explain why black and hispanic americans are impoverished at higher rates than other groups and lets be honest its not other groups its whites. Whites are the standard and benchmark upon which all others are compared.

The Zimmerman case was a huge, national case because he killed an unarmed black teen. The media even stated white Hispanic to try and push racial tensions. Would the media had cared if Zimmerman had killed some white kid? It goes both ways. We are now at a point where it's national headlines if a white cop kills a black guy...no matter the situation. The black guy is immediately a martyr and the white cops are evil in every case. Why? Zimmerman wasn't even famous like OJ. Did a movement and protests erupt after OJ was innocent? Did other white girls getting killed by black guys spark a social movement?

Blacks and Hispanics are impoverished at higher rates because they live in the impoverished inner cities. Hispanics also have a huge chunk that are illegally here and/or have a language barrier. All of that stems from education. I'm all for education but at the end of the day, after you've been given an opportunity to learn, it's a choice. If there are no jobs where you live, move. That's a choice I've made three times now. I've lived in three different cities in three different states within 7 years. It sucks but I made a choice. It's a choice not to get involved in drugs or crime, which proportionally, Blacks and Hispanics have higher numbers. It's a choice not to have kids, which again, are proportionally higher in Blacks and Hispanics. Everyone's life is a set of choices. Relying on the welfare state and blaming other races on your plight only impoverishes your future generations. At one point you have to stop blaming the system and blame yourself. Stop blaming 60 years ago America that most of us didn't live in. Improve education for all of us. That's something that benefits everyone.

 

[TheBat812]

As an Asian American, we've also dealt with racism in this country, although not to the extent of Blacks and Hispanics, with the two major examples being World War II and the months following 9-11. But, Matt is right as the Asian American demographic has many ethnic groups, so the racism has been limited to one ethnic group rather than an entire race. It's still bad though. It's always been one specific ethnic group, like Japanese Americans or Arab Americans. Outside of Anti-Chinese Sentiment in the 19th century and those two major incidents, I've never heard of the prosecution of Vietnamese Americans, Korean Americans, Indian Americans or most of the Asian American ethnic groups at the hands of the US Government. The Asian American demographic has such a diverse swath of people, that we don't have a "Cesar Chavez" or an "MLK" in our demographic that will fight for our civil rights and instead each ethnic group has their own activists to do that. The Japanese Americans were trying to get reparations for the internment camps during the 70's and 80's. It wasn't anything that affected the Chinese Americans at all.

And the only time Asian Americans from the various ethnic groups protest is when we protest with other races. If a series of police shootings were to involve Asian Americans from one ethnic group, I think the odds of the other Asian ethnic groups protesting police brutality is slim unless other races are involved.

Asian Americans do not have a united voice, like African Americans or Hispanics do. We will tend to attach ourselves to other protest movements like the March for Women or LGBT rights. And the Asian stereotypes play a part in the racism. Arab Americans are portrayed as terrorists, when most are not. Indian Americans are seen as tech savvy or great in academics. Those of Southeast Asian orientation (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai and Filipino) are seen as "geniuses at math." Also Hollywood's tendency to whitewash Asian roles in Hollywood productions.

My point is that Asian Americans are not immune to racism in this country, but the entire demographic hasn't had to deal with the type of racism that African Americans and Latinos have had. Only certain demographics have been discriminated against on a national level like Chinese in the decade before the Civil War, the Japanese Americans during World War II and the Arab Americans today.

People seem to be really passive about Asian Americans because they kind of assimilated the things whites consider to be the 'better' values. Hard work and family. We're kind of invisible to whites. I'm half asian and half white, and it's been a pretty neutral experience for me, personally and from what i've seen.

 

[DeadPresident]

Honestly I find it somewhat racist when people associate certain "better" values as "white values", when it boils down to un-racial decisions. This trend among certain ethnicities to ostracize people from their communities for being educated, or speaking a certain way, or any number of other things is extremely detrimental to encouraging good behavior. I wonder if people think having an expectation of working hard and taking care of one's family as something that's specific to a certain culture and not a prerequisite for anyone? It's kind of depressing if people believe taking care of your family and working hard isn't something that should universally worked towards.

It's a brilliant example of hegemonic racism perpetrated by non-whites whenever they decide to criticize people for objectively good decisions as being too "white". It's contradictory to a point as well, people keep complaining they don't have the same lifestyle or economic position as whites, and then whenever someone from their group behaves in a way to achieve that they often get criticized and alienated for it.

 

[regwec]

It is equally depressing to hear effectively all science, humanism, philosophy and high culture written off as the legacy of "dead white men". The repudiation of all human progress since the enlightenment as ethnically incorrect is telling in its defeatism.

 

[terry78]

In layman's terms, white people view Asians as the "good ones." Except when they're more Middle Eastern or Muslim. Then they may as well be latino or black as far as threat level.

 

[chaseter]

People seem to be really passive about Asian Americans because they kind of assimilated the things whites consider to be the 'better' values. Hard work and family. We're kind of invisible to whites. I'm half asian and half white, and it's been a pretty neutral experience for me, personally and from what i've seen.

Uh...hard work and family should be at the top of the list for everyone.

 

[Donner]

Lol at people who think it's as easy as making better choices. The ignorance.

Also, it's actually kind of racist to say that Blacks and Hispanics make poor choices (at higher rates than whites, obviously). Skin colour has no bearing on rationality. Yeesh.

 

[chaseter]

Crime is a choice. Drugs are a choice. Going to school is a choice. Not having a job is largely a choice in a strong economy. Blaming others for your plight is a way to shirk responsibility. That's much easier than doing something to change your circumstances.

I stated imperical facts. You can argue with factual statistics all you want. That won't change them...

 

[Sithborg]

Crime is a choice. Drugs are a choice. Going to school is a choice. Not having a job is largely a choice in a strong economy. Blaming others for your plight is a way to shirk responsibility. That's much easier than doing something to change your circumstances.

I stated imperical facts. You can argue with factual statistics all you want. That won't change them...

Many of those things are not as simple as you day.

Especially with school. As I have seen what DeVos has done in terms of trying to destroy public schools.

 

[chaseter]

Newsflash...our schools already suck and have for about 3 decades. But, you still can learn if you go and listen.

All of those things are simple as stated. Saying you have no choice but to do drugs, drop out of school, steal or murder...is insanely irresponsible in itself...because you're condoning it.

 

[Sithborg]

Condoning, no. But I also don't have as simple of view as you do. The War on Drugs has left a generation imprisoned. A problem worsened by the creation of the private prison industry.

If you want to ignore that not everyone has the same chances in life, go ahead.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There are 20 million poor whites and 9 million poor blacks in the United States.

Why are we obsessing over these 9 million blacks when the vast majority of blacks are employed, tax paying, non-violent and decent people?

Because blacks disproportionately are involved in violent crime and live in poverty? Why are races defined by disproportions? Should I assume all whites are white collar criminals because whites are disproportionately involved in those crimes. No, obviously most whites are not white collar criminals so common sense says despite the disproportionate involvement we don't define all whites that way.

We need to distinguish most blacks who are responsible from the much smaller segment of the population who is irresponsible the same way we do for whites ("white trash" is separated from the majority of whites).