Discussion: Racism - Part 3

[Avenging Angel]

It's really hard to find something funny in all this sickness. But that is hilarious. Thank you.

Levity dahling.

 

[RockSP]

I'm saying I'm not shedding a tear or losing sleep if someone punches a nazi in the face.

 

[samsnee]

Man I hope Cap had the proper permits before doing that.

 

[hellified]

You can argue it gets hot and cold. I don't believe it was this bad 25 years ago but I think the combination of right wing radio, which lead to more partisan left wing media as well combined with the Internet(where everybody can have an opinion and say it without showing their face) has taken us to where we are today

25 years ago you had rodney king, clear police brutality, an acquittal of the cops who did it and subsequently the LA riots. And things had been simmering long before that. Before that you had the "wilding" central park jogger incident where trump himself mincing no words took out a full page ad demanding the accused (7 teenagers) be executed. Only to find out a decade later someone else did it and the cops railroaded them into a confession. Trump never apologized or acknowledged getting it wrong.

The level of contention may wax and wane but thats by a few degrees one way or the other theres never been a point where "alls well in the kingdom".

 

[Donner]

before the nazi's fired up the gas chambers they espoused beliefs first... the kkk espoused beliefs to justify acts of terror and murder on american citizens. I don't know about you but I'm not waiting around to see exactly how serious this generation of those a-holes are.

theres a reason why jews say NEVER AGAIN.

By all means, go around punching people you believe are Nazis and see how quickly that doesn't go your way.

 

[Sithborg]

Also, about 200 people voluntarily lined up at the Durham police station to be charged with tearing down the statue. I am impressed. That is some moral courage.

 

[squeekness]

Also, about 200 people voluntarily lined up at the Durham police station to be charged with tearing down the statue. I am impressed. That is some moral courage.

Really. Maybe they won't get punished that severely because they admitted it.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, the four that they arrested are facing 2 felony charges. And it sounds like the deputies turn away those that tried to turn themselves in.

 

[squeekness]

Well, the four that they arrested are facing 2 felony charges. And it sounds like the deputies turn away those that tried to turn themselves in.

Maybe when or if it goes to trial they'll get probation and community service. A good judge might understand the circumstances and give them a break.

 

[Docker2.0]

As much as it pains me to speak on behalf of hate groups, I do have to agree with you here. It is dangerous to shut only certain people down. The trick is how do we do things peacefully? Doesn't seem like we can right now.

I agree. I think that the march was wrong but honestly, they do have the right here in the USA. Its what veterans fought for. As much as I like what the counter protestors did, they came looking for a fight with bats and pipes. I have to side with Trump on that one. But that side about preserving those statues.......I think he's just pandering to his Audience. No way can he mean that.

 

[Sithborg]

As opposed to the side armed with a ton of guns?

 

[DeadPresident]

I don't buy into this "You can't shut certain groups down" rhetoric - you can definitely shut certain groups down if you've got general concrete standards and values that you tell every citizen they need to adhere to. Letting Nazis espouse their crap and convince others to join their ranks in the long term can logically pose a threat to the constitutional values the USA is supposedly built on, there's no hypocrisy in violating the sanctity of absolute liberty when it ensures a modicum of liberty will continue existing.

This idea of everything being permissible is horse **** and a rabbit hole that doesn't merit going down.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm fine with letting them march. As long as the counter protesters are allowed as well. Let them speak. And let us be able to tell them to **** off.

 

[DeadPresident]

Even letting them march feels like giving too much leeway to this kind of thing, it's a volatile element that's very difficult to predict and that one can't necessarily control. Compromising on liberty in very specific instances in order to ensure its continued existence seems like a price worth paying, considering historical evidence of how quickly and violently fascism can get of hand it seems worth curtailing.

 

[SuperT]

They absolutely should not be allowed to march, give speeches etc. Why is it so hard to understand that they are a hate group - their goal is to subjugate or literally remove racial minorities, LGBTQ, women and other similar disenfranchised populations from the Earth.

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. Our government absolutely should not protect rhetoric that talks about doing harm to those populations.

 

[DeadPresident]

They absolutely should not be allowed to march, give speeches etc. Why is it so hard to understand that they are a hate group - their goal is to subjugate or literally remove racial minorities, LGBTQ, women and other similar disenfranchised populations from the Earth.

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. Our government absolutely should not protect rhetoric that talks about doing harm to those populations.

The Nazis didn't want to kill women. They were evil, not ****ing morons.

 

[RockSP]

The Nazis didn't want to kill women. They were evil, not ****ing morons.

I'm going to assume you mean ALL women, since the Nazis obviously wanted to and did kill women.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm going to assume you mean ALL women, since the Nazis obviously wanted to and did kill women.

Indeed, you're right, but not because they were women - because of other identities they had.

 

[Hypestyle]

Arnie's not having any of this crap:

Hopefully Arnie has retired that "Nazi sees the light" action picture that was in development years ago...

 

[Hypestyle]

Yes it does. Racism isn't an exclusively white thing.

Racial inequalities do not all stem from racism. That's a shirking of personal responsibility and an easy out to blame everyone else. There was a time when you would be correct. Institutional racism is over. It's the law now and has been for half a century.

institutional racism is alive and well, in government agencies and the private sector. lol. Regardless of whatever "official" policies are on the books, EEOC statutes, etc. Entrenched cultures of discrimination don't need to be mindful of what's on paper.

 

[hellified]

we now live in a country that bans muslims from certain countries but gives permits to let nazis openly demonstrate...think about that.

 

[Boy Scout]

They absolutely should not be allowed to march, give speeches etc. Why is it so hard to understand that they are a hate group - their goal is to subjugate or literally remove racial minorities, LGBTQ, women and other similar disenfranchised populations from the Earth.

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. Our government absolutely should not protect rhetoric that talks about doing harm to those populations.

Because of freedom of speech.

I hate their messages as much as the next person, but even I can admit that they have the right to say whatever they want as long as they're do it peacefully. If the government can figure out a way to ban hate speech without setting a potentially disastrous precedent, then I'm all for it, but until then, counterprotests and widespread shaming of their ideology need to be employed.

 

[Predator jp]

Because of freedom of speech.

I hate their messages as much as the next person, but even I can admit that they have the right to say whatever they want as long as they're do it peacefully. If the government can figure out a way to ban hate speech without setting a potentially disastrous precedent, then I'm all for it, but until then, counterprotests and widespread shaming of their ideology need to be employed.

it's a thin line for sure. nobody wants another McCarthyism.

 

[Kelly]

Because of freedom of speech.

I hate their messages as much as the next person, but even I can admit that they have the right to say whatever they want as long as they're do it peacefully. If the government can figure out a way to ban hate speech without setting a potentially disastrous precedent, then I'm all for it, but until then, counterprotests and widespread shaming of their ideology need to be employed.

Actually they don't have a right to say whatever they want to say....if it incites violence it is not under the "Freedom of Speech" banner....I think what has recently happened falls solidly on the grounds of incitement, intent, imminent and likely violence were all present this weekend.

 

[Boy Scout]

Oh yeah, for sure. What happened in Charlottesville isn't an example of what I'm talking about. But they were being incredibly aggressive about it, waving torches and (apparently) organizing a ****ing militia. If they had simply organized and marched and said what they wanted to say, but unaggressively (however possible that is, considering it's literally hate speech) wouldn't that have fallen under the "free speech" banner?