🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[Marvolo]

Illegal immigrants don't take our benefits or our healthcare. They don't have social security numbers. They can't apply for food stamps or medicaid. The most that they do is go to the ER sometimes, but given that Republicans are trying their hardest to take away health insurance from 15 million Americans, their argument seems disingenuous to say the least. A wall certainly wouldn't do anything about 12 million illegals that are already here. The best way to fix that situation is amnesty, if conservatives were serious about the drain that immigrants have on our economy.

I think conservatives mix up illegal and legal immigrants far more often than liberals. They're also purposely ignoring a crucial distinction at this point between illegal immigrants and illegal border crossers. A wall won't do anything to stop illegal immigration not at the border, which is the bulk of illegal immigration.

And hey... before we talk about whether the wall will pay for itself, we first need to know what the wall would cost, which no government office has given us credible numbers for yet.

I've worked with illegal and legal immagrants of all sorts (border hopper, coyote caravan, expired visas etc) for going on a decade and most, if not all, of them that I worked with pay taxes out of every paycheck. All my employers employees get W2s at the beginning of every year. Most of them have drivers license and most of them have social security numbers and they use that info to appear and act like a citizen which includes paying taxes.

They may not be paying taxes under their true birth name and their true credentials, but they still pay them. Obviously it's not the case for all illegal immigrants but it's what I've personally seen from those I've worked with and I've worked with many.

Fact is many of them are scared of breaking the law or ending up on law enforcement or government radar. So they do everything they can to obey the law and go through the motions that citizens do. Because they know if they don't, if they screw up, it's back to the dirt poor crime ridden dead end country they scrapped and crawled to escape.

It's also been my experience that many of them arent even aware of which government benefits they could receive or are afraid to try to get benefits from the government. They might claim a few too many dependents but that's about as far as many of them will push it. They arent all on food stamps.

Many of them wont go to the doctor until they are damn near dying. I've never asked why but the impression I get is they think doctors are over priced and unnecessary for most things. They dont use the American healthcare system everytime they get a cold like many Americans. And doctors offices often want credentials which puts them at risk of being discovered. So it's not as if they are abusing our healthcare.

Many of them dont trust banks for one reason of another, also.

There are some rotten apples for sure, but it's always been my experience that the high majority of illegal immigrants just want a better life, a better paycheck, better opportunities for their family.

 

[Greens]

Bernie is officially running in 2020

 

[Teelie]

Bernie is officially running in 2020

 

[mclay18]

Apparently he forgot that he was one of the reasons Trump got into the White House.

Words can’t describe it: I’m ticked.

 

[Boom]

Bernie is officially running in 2020

Ugh. I need this ****er to go away.

 

[terry78]

See, that is gonna cause the same divide as last time and the GOP wins again.

 

[Greens]

Did not expect this Bernie hate. lol

 

[Schlosser85]

I voted for Bernie in the primary last time, and I wish he wasn't running again. He was arguably a spoiler for Trump last time and the Dem field is already crowded and it's gonna be hard for the party to find one candidate to unite behind en masse, and Bernie getting involved again is just gonna make it harder.

 

[OB12]

I've worked with illegal and legal immagrants of all sorts (border hopper, coyote caravan, expired visas etc) for going on a decade and most, if not all, of them that I worked with pay taxes out of every paycheck. All my employers employees get W2s at the beginning of every year. Most of them have drivers license and most of them have social security numbers and they use that info to appear and act like a citizen which includes paying taxes.

They may not be paying taxes under their true birth name and their true credentials, but they still pay them. Obviously it's not the case for all illegal immigrants but it's what I've personally seen from those I've worked with and I've worked with many.

Fact is many of them are scared of breaking the law or ending up on law enforcement or government radar. So they do everything they can to obey the law and go through the motions that citizens do. Because they know if they don't, if they screw up, it's back to the dirt poor crime ridden dead end country they scrapped and crawled to escape.

It's also been my experience that many of them arent even aware of which government benefits they could receive or are afraid to try to get benefits from the government. They might claim a few too many dependents but that's about as far as many of them will push it. They arent all on food stamps.

Many of them wont go to the doctor until they are damn near dying. I've never asked why but the impression I get is they think doctors are over priced and unnecessary for most things. They dont use the American healthcare system everytime they get a cold like many Americans. And doctors offices often want credentials which puts them at risk of being discovered. So it's not as if they are abusing our healthcare.

Many of them dont trust banks for one reason of another, also.

There are some rotten apples for sure, but it's always been my experience that the high majority of illegal immigrants just want a better life, a better paycheck, better opportunities for their family.

This is entirely consistent with my experience. I've known a few illegal immigrants, in fact my best friend was illegal until he got an opportunity to become a legal resident and citizen of Canada. Through knowing him and what his life was like on a day-to-day basis, you begin to understand what they go through. Constantly being careful not to stick out and draw too much attention, working endless hours and being taken advantage of by employers, and not having opportunities available to them to advance in society. My friend is the hardest working man I know and I respect him more than any person I've ever met. Now, he is one example but my feeling is he is more representative of the immigrant community than the criminals depicted by conservatives.

The other thing that frustrates me about this discussion when I listen to Republicans speak about immigration is this certain arrogance. I mean it is really easy to criticize immigrants, we have the luxury of being American citizens and even if you've struggled in your life, I'd venture to say that you don't know what if feels like being the victim of political strife, unending violence, or pervasive government corruption. I try to imagine what it would take for me to have to pick up and bring my children to a foreign country, leaving behind the comforts of my neighborhood and the people that I know. We, as Americans, do not have the market cornered on comfort, these people also had marketplaces they liked to visit, routines they enjoyed and people that they would rather be around. They give that up because their current situation is untenable.

 

[mclay18]

I voted for Bernie in the primary last time, and I wish he wasn't running again. He was arguably a spoiler for Trump last time and the Dem field is already crowded and it's gonna be hard for the party to find one candidate to unite behind en masse, and Bernie getting involved again is just gonna make it harder.

I hope enough independents realize this and kick Bernie to the curb.

 

[Sithborg]

Did not expect this Bernie hate. lol

A lot of it comes from his fans, who definitely threw the election to Trump in my state. As long as he is quicker to get behind the winner, and accept his loss faster, then fine.

 

[MaceB]

I don't think this will be a repeat of 16. That was an example of how the DNC already chose someone... and wedge occurred between them and the base. I don't think the DNC will be picking winners and losers this time. They seem open to whoever makes it.

I don't think it was Bernie that made things rough last time. I think it was his supporters, who refused to listen to him after the primary. I believe they've learned their lesson though.

 

[Greens]

Bernie Sanders Bests Kamala Harris’ First-Day Donor Total in Four Hours

 

[Sithborg]

I will say, the Dem field is definitely more interesting than the 2016 GOP field.

 

[MaceB]

This is what is supposed to happen. Our best and brightest reps are out to compete for the top spot. Having a lot of viewpoints is a good thing in my view. But the DNC does need to assert some message discipline. The candidates shouldn't be allowed to go after each other personally. If you have a problem with Klobachar's stance that we aren't ready for universal healthcare... then don't attack her. Just be like, "some candidates say we aren't ready, but I say....blah blah blah." It's not that hard. Just stick to the issues.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I love you Bernie, but the window on your Presidency closed in 2016. It’s time to move on.

 

[Donner]

By the time the Democrats find their squeaky clean candidate, the Republicans will already be voting for Trump. Anyone is better than him.

 

[chaseter]

Except this whole "we can't afford it" argument falls flat, when conservatives drive up the debt through military spending, upper tax cuts and pet projects like this wall. How is the wall "small government" exactly?

Again "small government" only seems to apply to programs that help the poor and never applies to anything else. Heck you can't even seem to answer why the US spends more in GDP on health care then other countries with "socialized medicine".

Yes the US cannot afford to help the poor, but it can afford this wall (which will cost at least 20 billion dollars to build), it afford to spend a trillion dollars on Bush's Iraq misadventure, upper class tax cuts and it can afford having the largest prison population in the world.

The "we can't afford it" retort does not work when it comes from people as wasteful as American conservatives.

You’ll get no argument from me that Conservative politicians waste money.

But tell me, how many people in South and Central America are below the poverty line. Now tell me what is $1 above the poverty line to live in the US. Now multiply the two. Give me that number.

 

[Aximili86]

Is Sanders running as a Democrat again, or independent this time around? Only just saw the headline. Can't see the party being too happy if he's going under their banner.

Basically he already won in '16 in a primary sense, the party's moved left with his ideas anyway. There are just better people to put it out there, Harris and all, that are going to be more attractive to voters than a second Bernie run.

 

[MaceB]

Is Sanders running as a Democrat again, or independent this time around? Only just saw the headline. Can't see the party being too happy if he's going under their banner.

Basically he already won in '16 in a primary sense, the party's moved left with his ideas anyway. There are just better people to put it out there, Harris and all, that are going to be more attractive to voters than a second Bernie run.

I think he’s running as a dem. I agree - he’s already moved the debate left, which is quite the victory.

 

[Aximili86]

Not really gonna do the party any favors in a general election, though.

 

[MaceB]

We’ll see. He certainly didn’t do us any favors last time, but it’s a new day!

 

[Sithborg]

A reminder, that Bernie won the primaries of two of the states that Trump won. So, the left isn't going to be as scary as you think.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

New York Times - Coast Guard Officer Plotted to Kill Democrats and Journalists, Prosecutors Say

A Coast Guard lieutenant and self-described white nationalist who was arrested in Maryland last week was plotting to kill a long list of prominent journalists and Democratic politicians, as well as professors, judges and what he called “leftists in general,” federal prosecutors said in a court filing on Tuesday.

Lt. Christopher Paul Hasson, 49, was arrested Friday on gun and drug charges, but prosecutors said in the filing that the charges were just the “proverbial tip of the iceberg.”

The filing argued that Lieutenant Hasson should be held until he is tried, describing him as a “domestic terrorist” who intended “to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country.”

 

[Teelie]

We just saw Trump go after Smollet over his fake assault. Where is Trump's condemnation of this guy who was going to do as Trump suggested and attempt to murder journalists and Democratic leaders?