🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[Aximili86]

Again, it was something I thought he could overcome. Until he started mocking it.

He was mocking himself, not the women accusing him. For ****'s sake.

 

[Schlosser85]

He was mocking himself, not the women accusing him. For ****'s sake.

Axe, I’m pretty “meh” about this, but him cracking a joke about it wasn’t the best way to handle it.

 

[Aximili86]

Maybe not. It's also not hardly the capital-offense crime some are making it out to be. He was making light of the situation he's finding himself in through his own lack of judgement, that should be clear to anyone on either side of this.

Not once in any of this, the video, the press conference, the joke, has the dude ever played down the accusers or their validity. The guy made a fairly-lame-but-also-fairly-benign crack about it, the Democratic audience laughed and took it for what it is, and the usual professionally-aghast types lose their minds anyway. Par for the course predictable.

 

[Teelie]

Of all the important issues, legalized weed is not very high compared to everything else the current ****storm presidency is doing.

 

[Boy Scout]

After just reading about what happened, I assumed he was making a joke at his expense, but actually watching him make the joke...yikes. It’s not some huge scandal or disqualifying in and of itself, but it is indicative of his feelings on the matter. He clearly doesn’t understand the criticisms or even the potential gravity of the situation, because if he did, he wouldn’t have made a joke about it. I’ll vote for him if it comes down to him and Trump, but my hope is that we move forward into a more progressive starting in 2020, not back to what things were like between 2008 and 2016. And that’s the vibe I get from Biden overall, which is a separate reason for not being too jazzed about him as a candidate.

 

[Schlosser85]

There’s nothing so far that rules out me voting for Biden, but I’d rather have someone who’s not an old man running for President. That goes for Bernie too, and Bernie connects with younger people a lot better than Biden does.

 

[Boy Scout]

I don’t have time for Bernie.

 

[MaceB]

I’ve never been a huge Bernie fan. While others see consistency, I see a one trick pony. He stays on script really well, and his policy priorities are my policy priorities... but can he improvise and learn new information? I don’t know. His views on everything outside of economics feels paper thin to me. He always kind of pivots to what he knows, in my view.

There’s a lot to like about Bernie. But I do think his vision will require pain in the front end. Private companies aren’t going to give away profits without a fight... and they’re going to use their workers as artillery in that fight.

 

[CaptainWagner]

What on earth does his stance on weed have to do with anything...?

It has everything to do with him being seen as an out of touch old man. Over half the country has legalized marijuana in some form. It's not a huge issue this election, but it's a small thing that can contribute to the narrative of a campaign in a big way. If someone brings it up and Biden sticks to his anti-weed record, that's going to be a problem.

 

[Aximili86]

There’s nothing so far that rules out me voting for Biden, but I’d rather have someone who’s not an old man running for President.

Even when he's your best shot at actually winning?

Like, you can't seriously tell me you think the country as-a-whole is going to go for Gillibrand or Booker or whoever. Harris is probably the best bet among that school-of-thought among Democrats, but sees she's going to have some trouble among the ultra-lefties in the party anyway over her attorney days. And can Harris pull, you know, Michigan, when backing this Green New Deal stuff? Pretty doubtful.

I tend to think it's basically gotta be either Biden (if he has the balls to actually run now) or someone not in the race yet. Booker'll probably stick it out for the long run to the end of the primary, Warren'll get wasted as soon as she has to start talking specifics & practicality. Harris seems the shining beacon among the newbies, but she probably has the same issues as Biden anyway in that the hardcore wing of the party will latch onto her legal record in a vacuum and try to paint her as "the system", "the man" anyway.

 

[DeadPresident]

It has everything to do with him being seen as an out of touch old man. Over half the country has legalized marijuana in some form. It's not a huge issue this election, but it's a small thing that can contribute to the narrative of a campaign in a big way. If someone brings it up and Biden sticks to his anti-weed record, that's going to be a problem.

That depends specifically on what his stance on weed is.

This whole "legalize it weed has zero negative effects" position that's very trendy among Millennials/Gen Z is really annoying, coming from someone who's had to study the research that marijuana use at different stages of life can have on the brain. And I'd add to that anyone that allows a candidate's stance on free use of weed being a swinging point for their vote is a fool.

Medical use, hemp, strains without any THC? All good. Carte blanche on anything? Patent stupidity.

It is quickly becoming popular among states to legalize it. It would be nice to have a President who encourages it. Or even one to encourage it being reclassified.

Sure, that's fair. As hinted at in my previous reply I believe marijuana products/by-products being legalized should have many, many asterisks next to it because 'lol I just wanna blaze' isn't a good enough reason. All evidence suggests it should still be a well-controlled substance and its applications need to be quite specific.

Of all the important issues, legalized weed is not very high compared to everything else the current ****storm presidency is doing.

^^

For the cheap seats.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Even when he's your best shot at actually winning?

Like, you can't seriously tell me you think the country as-a-whole is going to go for Gillibrand or Booker or whoever. Harris is probably the best bet among that school-of-thought among Democrats, but sees she's going to have some trouble among the ultra-lefties in the party anyway over her attorney days. And can Harris pull, you know, Michigan, when backing this Green New Deal stuff? Pretty doubtful.

I tend to think it's basically gotta be either Biden (if he has the balls to actually run now) or someone not in the race yet. Booker'll probably stick it out for the long run to the end of the primary, Warren'll get wasted as soon as she has to start talking specifics & practicality. Harris seems the shining beacon among the newbies, but she probably has the same issues as Biden anyway in that the hardcore wing of the party will latch onto her legal record in a vacuum and try to paint her as "the system", "the man" anyway.

Biden is not the best shot at winning. There is a reason he has flamed out in two different attempt at the presidency. He is not good at running and his record is going to be a big issue for him.

Biden is not a more viable option in Michigan then say Harris. I mean if Clinton couldn't win Michigan, how is Biden a better option there?

I am not sure why you keep on bringing up Booker. He already feels out of it and his lack of fundraising numbers seems to indicate that.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yea, I don't think anyone thinks Booker or even Gillibrand is a front runner. No one even bothers talking about Booker.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yea, I don't think anyone thinks Booker or even Gillibrand is a front runner. No one even bothers talking about Booker.

On their podcast FiveThirtyEight were talking about overall viability and if I remember correctly, they mentioned Booker hasn't released his fundraising numbers yet. Looking it up, looks like he is doing that today. He apparently says he has raised 5 million in the first quarter of 2019, which considering the others, doesn't sound great.

 

[Sithborg]

That depends specifically on what his stance on weed is.

This whole "legalize it weed has zero negative effects" position that's very trendy among Millennials/Gen Z is really annoying, coming from someone who's had to study the research that marijuana use at different stages of life can have on the brain. And I'd add to that anyone that allows a candidate's stance on free use of weed being a swinging point for their vote is a fool.

Medical use, hemp, strains without any THC? All good. Carte blanche on anything? Patent stupidity.



Sure, that's fair. As hinted at in my previous reply I believe marijuana products/by-products being legalized should have many, many asterisks next to it because 'lol I just wanna blaze' isn't a good enough reason. All evidence suggests it should still be a well-controlled substance and its applications need to be quite specific.



^^

For the cheap seats.

It likely won't be a key issue in the general.

However, with as crowded primary as it already is, it definitely can be a make or brake issue.

 

[Schlosser85]

I think arresting people for weed while legally selling alcohol and cigarettes by the truckload is insane.

But I don’t think Biden’s stance on it should be a make or break campaign issue. There’s bigger issues going on especially currently.

 

[DeadPresident]

Sure, to me the law enforcement approach to marijuana usage/ownership/possession etc is a separate discussion from what should be legal to do.

There's already a lot of data about the way in which law enforcement with regard to marijuana disproportionately affects African Americans, so I assume some people's views on legalization isn't strictly about the substance but also significantly about the peripheral consequences, which I can understand.

At the same time the broader effects of legalization also need to be considered carefully.

Like a few of you have said, though, there are far bigger fish to fry - we need to make sure there's a livable planet on which to continue having these debates on first.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Even when he's your best shot at actually winning?

Like, you can't seriously tell me you think the country as-a-whole is going to go for Gillibrand or Booker or whoever. Harris is probably the best bet among that school-of-thought among Democrats, but sees she's going to have some trouble among the ultra-lefties in the party anyway over her attorney days. And can Harris pull, you know, Michigan, when backing this Green New Deal stuff? Pretty doubtful.

Again... You really need to actually inform yourself on how these regions view progressive policy. You are 100% bought into the GOP propaganda narrative that working class voters won't support Progressive policy. When people actually talk about these issues in a compelling way to reach these voters, they support it. To suggest that Michigan would vote Trump over Harris because she backed the Green New Deal is incredibly closed minded and demeaning towards the voters of Michigan and the states like it.

 

[MaceB]

Sure, that's fair. As hinted at in my previous reply I believe marijuana products/by-products being legalized should have many, many asterisks next to it because 'lol I just wanna blaze' isn't a good enough reason. All evidence suggests it should still be a well-controlled substance and its applications need to be quite specific.

I don't know what evidence you are looking at, but is there evidence that marijuana has worse long term impacts than alcohol or nicotine? I highly doubt it. Marijuana is addictive... but no more addictive than those two products. Marijuana is a carcinogen, but as far as I know, it hasn't been tied to a single user who exclusively uses marijuana... it's certainly not as bad of a carcinogen as tobacco. Marijuana may have some long term effects on attention span, regulation of one's mood, etc.. and for those who have the genetic gene, it can be a gateway into other drugs.

But generally speaking, the effects of marijuana wear off after not using it anymore. It is, at worst, on par with other legalized drugs on the market. It doesn't minimize one's lifespan, typically. Does it have side effects? Yes. But no worse side effects than alcohol, which millions use every day. You may not like the idea of making a mind altering drug legal to everybody, but I don't think you can say 'I just wanna blaze' is not a good enough reason. It's a plant that comes from the ground, and we are free to make these value judgements ourselves. Maybe some of us would give up our short term memory in return for a little rest and relaxation. Whether or not such a thing is worth it for someone, is luckily not your call to make, IMO.

Marijuana does come with a handful of benefits.. though I'll admit that they are outweighed by the negatives. Increased creativity, increased vocabulary, regulated eating, etc..

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

If legalized the thing is smoking it would be the least likely way it would be consumed.

Edibles, tincture and ingestible liquids like teas, aloholic drinks etc. would be the more likely and more profitable way to go.

 

[Aximili86]

Biden is not a more viable option in Michigan then say Harris. I mean if Clinton couldn't win Michigan, how is Biden a better option there?

Of course he ****ing is.

Biden's whole reputation is as that middle-ideology, working-class-leaning (policy-wise, not his own financial situation) traditional Democrat guy who's rough-around-the-edges and gaffe-prone but basically honest. A "what you see is what you get, flaws & all" type, which is basically the opposite of how these people saw Hillary. Now look, we don't even know - if Biden gets in the race he might even find himself pandering to the kiddies strategically and getting on board with all the "in 10 years climate change is irreversible - ban gas cars by then!" schtick, and if he did that he'd be done.

Just seems like he'd know better. Among the people assumed to be running (I'd be more skeptical on that now), he just seems to be the one of the bunch that knows that stuff's not going to fly in any remote pragmatic sense and the majority of the country aren't going to go for that. The whole "looking after us" thing from a middle-class perspective is pretty powerful in-and-of itself, but you combine that with being second-top-dog in the Obama administration and his reputation as a sometimes-messy-but-basically-honest guy, that's a huge draw to regular classic Democratic voters.

What do those people get in a Gillibrand or a Booker or Warren? Are those people getting the sense any of those three understand that you can't just phase out of coal entirely in a couple years, can't flick a lightswitch and automatically go fully-electric auto industry, without dishing out some major economic damage to those not in a great financial position anyway? Do they get that Joe & Jane 40-something have a little pride and when you start talking about a universal income for (again, their words) "people who are unwilling to work" (as opposed to just those unable) they're going to raise the middle finger?

Doubtful. For all of Biden's issues, he gets this stuff. Obama did too to an extent, he was committed to the change but understood you can't just go all top-down imposing with it.


EDIT: As for the Booker thing, only reason I add him to the list is he's still like top-half polling among those in the race so far, no? He's way below Biden & Bernie, but pretty sure he's doing no worse than Gillibrand and is above all the no-namers throwing their hat in the ring. Agreed he's not going to get the nom though, dust settled.

 

[jolldan]

Did that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez really change her voice to speak to a black audience?

I haven't seen the clip as I don't have sound right now but just seeing a few funny pictures has got me wondering.

 

[Aximili86]

Seemed like it was more just putting on a really broad NY (Bronx?) accent while speaking there, but only kinda caught the headline. Don't think it was a black audience thing though, she's just doing the usual stupid pandering. They all pull this crap in some form or another though, whether it's Bush acting like some OG Texan cowboy or whatever, to Hillary with her fake southern accent in the south.

Politicians, basically.

 

[Schlosser85]

Or Trump practically dry humping the flag onstage and suddenly being religious.

 

[Aximili86]

Or that, indeed.

Being a phoney comes with the territory.