🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[Iceman]

Where do you think moderate Democrats come from?

I hope that's not fully true or it means the majority of the country have a foot in on the Republican side.

 

[Schlosser85]

I hope that's not fully true or it means the majority of the country have a foot in on the Republican side.

It's not. I'm a moderate Democrat (relatively speaking), and I've never been a Republican.

 

[Schlosser85]

I feel like I’m not expressing anything today as well as I’m trying to.

 

[Iceman]

Yup. I admit I'm torn all sorts of ways about this.

Would everyone's interests be better served with multiple viable "Democratic" parties? Yes, probably.

But do I want everyone's interests to be better served, or do I want things coalesced under the current mainline Democratic Party banner?

If the former means we're splintered into multiple factions against a united Republican Party, then the answer is unequivocally and unashamedly no, I do not. Weakening ourselves against the Republicans would not be good for anyone who isn't a Republican, whether centrist or progressive.

If both the Democrats and Republicans splinter into various factions, then that changes the whole landscape and the whole argument. But in that scenario I fear everything is up for grabs and disorganized chaos reigns.

Unfortunately so. Winning against the main threat that is furthest removed ideologically comes first IMO, and then comes the battle of exactly where between left and centre to land. At the moment it doesn't look like the numbers are there unless the majority of young people start voting, but this can change in future as more and more young people come of age.

 

[Lily Adler]

I hope that's not fully true or it means the majority of the country have a foot in on the Republican side.

It is and it isn't. Moderates come from different sources. Either they are independent as neither party supports their beliefs enough, but vote for the one they agree with more or they came from the opposing party cause they felt they were getting too extreme such as is happening with NeverTrumpers in the GOP.

My biggest fear is the Dem establishment will cater to Never Trumpers and not Progressives and pull the party more Right than we are now to keep them voting Democrat. What seems to separate the GOP moderates and Dem moderates is abortion and gay rights.

 

[Iceman]

It is and it isn't. Moderates come from different sources. Either they are independent as neither party supports their beliefs enough, but vote for the one they agree with more or they came from the opposing party cause they felt they were getting too extreme such as is happening with NeverTrumpers in the GOP.

My biggest fear is the Dem establishment will cater to Never Trumpers and not Progressives and pull the party more Right than we are now to keep them voting Democrat. What seems to separate the GOP moderates and Dem moderates is abortion and gay rights.

Oh right, thanks for the clarity on that.

 

[Schlosser85]

It is and it isn't. Moderates come from different sources. Either they are independent as neither party supports their beliefs enough, but vote for the one they agree with more or they came from the opposing party cause they felt they were getting too extreme such as is happening with NeverTrumpers in the GOP.

My biggest fear is the Dem establishment will cater to Never Trumpers and not Progressives and pull the party more Right than we are now to keep them voting Democrat. What seems to separate the GOP moderates and Dem moderates is abortion and gay rights.

Like I said before, my being gay is the number one incontrovertible reason why I could never be a Republican. Not the only reason, as I find them distasteful in other ways, but the ironclad one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hope that's not fully true or it means the majority of the country have a foot in on the Republican side.

Okay joking aside, the Overton window has been shifting a lot, but it just shows how far to the right Nixon, Reagan, Bush and even Clinton took it in the first place.

 

[Illuminata]

Bill Clinton is a centrist Democrat. Of course he'd prefer Biden be the nominee instead of Bernie. What exactly about his comment about Clyburn was surprising or scandalous?

Bill Clinton & Al Gore were considered extremely progressive during that time. They probably seem Centerist to today's standard but definitely during that time (my first vote) they were considered Marxist by the GOP.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bill Clinton & Al Gore were considered extremely progressive during that time. They probably seem Centerist to today's standard but definitely during that time (my first vote) they were considered Marxist by the GOP.

To who though? Especially considering he was all about locking up black folk like he was Reagan reincarnated.

 

[Iceman]

Okay joking aside, the Overton window has been shifting a lot, but it just shows how far to the right Nixon, Reagan, Bush and even Clinton took it in the first place.

I had to google Overton window.

At least the future can be different if the young start voting in greater numbers and the shifting demographics should lead to an eventual shift in what is acceptable and what isn't, and make it much harder for a future Trump to ever succeed. The economic suffering brought about by the virus might help accelerate this too.

 

[Lily Adler]

I had to google Overton window.

At least the future can be different if the young start voting in greater numbers and the shifting demographics should lead to an eventual shift in what is acceptable and what isn't, and make it much harder for a future Trump to ever succeed. The economic suffering brought about by the virus might help accelerate this too.

To start we need more exciting policies to engage voters, and then simplify the registration and voting processes for elections. Increase the number of polling places, just need a state ID, simple ballots, etc.

 

[Schlosser85]

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are the last two decent to good presidents we’ve had.

 

[Schlosser85]

To who though? Especially considering he was all about locking up black folk like he was Reagan reincarnated.

To most people, I guess.

 

[moviedoors]

Bill Clinton & Al Gore were considered extremely progressive during that time. They probably seem Centerist to today's standard but definitely during that time (my first vote) they were considered Marxist by the GOP.

Clinton was always center right with some liberal social stances. Obama ran as a populist progressive and governed as a moderate.

 

[Lily Adler]

Clinton was always center right with some liberal social stances. Obama ran as a populist progressive and governed as a moderate.

The populist Progressive was what motivated the huge voter turn out with the youths. But some seem to forget that.

 

[moviedoors]

My biggest fear is the Dem establishment will cater to Never Trumpers and not Progressives and pull the party more Right than we are now to keep them voting Democrat.

Just look at how horrified they are of touching M4A. It's a winning issue with the majority of Americans, but even more so for their base and those they should be targeting for votes. But no. Can't frighten away right wingers. They only know how to reach to the right across the aisle.

 

[moviedoors]

The populist Progressive was what motivated the huge voter turn out with the youths. But some seem to forget that.

For sure. His campaign was all about throwing red meat to people desperate for change.

 

[Snow Queen]

Bill Clinton & Al Gore were considered extremely progressive during that time. They probably seem Centerist to today's standard but definitely during that time (my first vote) they were considered Marxist by the GOP.

The GOP consider everyone who isn't in favour of poor people being in labour camps to make Jeff Bezos a few bucks a Marxist, so I'm not sure that means much.

 

[Schlosser85]

They’re hilariously trying to slap Biden with the Socialist label, which isn’t working very well.

 

[Lily Adler]

For sure. His campaign was all about throwing red meat to people desperate for change.

Luckily the hatred for Trump seems to be motivating enough of a turnout. But will it be able to work against a competent Trump?

 

[moviedoors]

Luckily the hatred for But will it be able to work against a competent Trump?

If the Dems insist on their current playbook, I think that's bound to blow up in their faces.

 

[Snow Queen]

Luckily the hatred for Trump seems to be motivating enough of a turnout. But will it be able to work against a competent Trump?

And right there is a big concern of mine going forward, particularly the next few years. Trump just gave every wannabe fascist in the US a road map. It's why it's important that the democrats, as the only current opposition party, address the issues that helped fuel his rise. Not catering to bigots, but actually improving tactile, everyday life for people so they don't turn to the first demagogue who paints a target on a group for them to pin it all on. And I worry they didn't learn anything from the last four years here and won't be up to that task.

 

[moviedoors]

And right there is a big concern of mine going forward, particularly the next few years. Trump just gave every wannabe fascist in the US a road map. It's why it's important that the democrats, as the only current opposition party, address the issues that helped fuel his rise. Not catering to bigots, but actually improving tactile, everyday life for people so they don't turn to the first demagogue who paints a target on a group for them to pin it all on. And I worry they didn't learn anything from the last four years here and won't be up to that task.

Don't expect them to learn a goddamn thing if Biden wins.

 

[Snow Queen]

Don't expect them to learn a goddamn thing if Biden wins.

Yeah, that's what worries me. As much as Biden winning is better than Trump winning, I do worry it'll reinforce their beliefs that status quo is enough, allowing them to be blindsided when someone tries this playbook again. And it seems like a near certainty to me that someone will. With growing wealth inequality, less jobs that people can support themselves on, expensive higher education and the ever-present threat of, you know, global climate catastrophe looming on the horizon, they'll have a lot of material to work with.