Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

[Paradoxium]

I didn't say Bush was not to blame. I didn't say **** about Bush being right, you are putting the words in my mouth and jumping to conclusion. You are contributing to it (or advocating it) and justifying it via Bush.

Please don't do this "Republicans are even interested in job creation schtick". I can create a bingo sheet at this point.

Some of us are not interested in mortgaging future private capital for short term nonsensical expenditures; that produces no utility or little utility at an exorbitant cost. Maybe you should run a business learn what cost, risk and reward is about. I am not going to pay $10 for a loaf of moldy bread even if you think it is a wonderful investment.

 

[Kelly]

Privatization? Whoa. Everyone knows that the government is inherently more efficient (and cost-efficient) than the private sector and produces a higher quality service. Besides, bureaucrats who have spent their whole careers in government know better than anyone else how to efficiently run a service.

Don't do that again, you scared the hell out of me with this post....

 

[Handsome Rob]

Don't do that again, you scared the hell out of me with this post....

My apologies. I should let people know whenever I'm playing "opposite day."

 

[Paradoxium]

My apologies. I should let people know whenever I'm playing "opposite day."

I am gonna have to try that tomorrow or another day. t:

 

[Handsome Rob]

I didn't say Bush was not to blame. I didn't say **** about Bush being right, you are putting the words in my mouth and jumping to conclusion. You are contributing to it (or advocating it) and justifying it via Bush.

Please don't do this "Republicans are even interested in job creation schtick". I can create a bingo sheet at this point.

Some of us are not interested in mortgaging future private capital for short term nonsensical expenditures; that produces no utility or little utility at an exorbitant cost. Maybe you should run a business learn what cost, risk and reward is about. I am not going to pay $10 for a loaf of moldy bread even if you think it is a wonderful investment.

EDIT: Opposite day is now over.

This. Granted, I've been piling it on Obama (rightfully so, and it's somewhat fun to watch people react like he's their girlfriend as well t, but this problem belongs to the progressivism and fiscal irresponsibility prevalent in both parties.

I live within my means, and I demand that my government do the same. And I get so sick of the "But Bush . . ." pathetic excuse of a comeback, as if his (or Bush I, or Reagan, etc.) fiscal failures and policies of governmental overreach somehow justify Obama's doing the same thing on a larger scale.

 

[Handsome Rob]

I am gonna have to try that tomorrow or another day. t:

Send Kelly a pm, first.

 

[8wid]

I notice Obama in his speech forgot to mention his own bailout and war spending and could only blame the Bush era expenidures on war, drugs programs, the deregulation, and the spending. He is simply blaming the Republicans and taking his complaints to a live television address from the White House. Notice how he keeps believing his plan only not working because of the Republican opposition.

He wants more Americans to give a little more. If that's the case I just let them default on the mess they created, because that ain't happening.

 

[childeroland]

Will the ratings agencies really downgrade the U.S. unless the deal includes 4 trillion in cuts and bipartisan support, regardless of whether or not Congress raises the ceiling?

 

[8wid]

Will the ratings agencies really downgrade the U.S. unless the deal includes 4 trillion in cuts and bipartisan support, regardless of whether or not Congress raises the ceiling?

Most likely yes.

 

[Paradoxium]

http://budget.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=253640

So Ryan's response.

The $2.7 trillion debt-limit increase proposal offered by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid contains a $1 trillion gimmick meant to disguise the plan’s shallowness on spending cuts. Supporters of the Reid plan are measuring their savings against a baseline that assumes the continuation of surge-level spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, even though the President has neither requested this funding nor signaled that he might request it. Instead, the President has signaled the opposite: a troop drawdown over the next few years. In other words, the Reid plan is claiming credit for “savings” that were already scheduled to occur, and for “cutting” spending that no one has requested.

Rather than defend this gimmick on the merits, supporters of the Reid plan are defending it by claiming that House Republicans “also included” this $1 trillion in savings when calculating spending reductions in the budget resolution that passed the House last April. This claim is false. The House-passed budget cuts $6.2 trillion in spending relative to President Obama’s FY2012 budget request, and this spending reduction assumes ZERO savings from the global war on terror relative to the President’s budget.

In the interest of maximum transparency, House Republicans produced additional estimates in order to provide a broad range of comparisons by which outsiders could judge the seriousness of the their budget’s commitment to real spending cuts and controls.

 

[DACrowe]

Well, Ryan should know as $1 trillion of savings in his $4 trillion privatize-medicare plan came from doing exactly that. How dare Reid steal his idea!

Anyway....

Standard and Poor's says Boehner's plan will not prevent the downgrade, Reid's will

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...n-might-not-prevent-downgrade-of-u-s-economy/

Somehow I doubt this will even cause House GOP freshmen to even pause for half a second. Oh well.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Well, Ryan should know as $1 trillion of savings in his $4 trillion privatize-medicare plan came from doing exactly that. How dare Reid steal his idea!

Anyway....

Standard and Poor's says Boehner's plan will not prevent the downgrade, Reid's will

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...n-might-not-prevent-downgrade-of-u-s-economy/

Somehow I doubt this will even cause House GOP freshmen to even pause for half a second. Oh well.

I wish you would have paused half a second to digest the content of the video before you put your title on above the link.

Erin Burnett said an investor told her after speaking with S&P (so the information is not straight from the S&P) that Boehner's plan probably would not prevent a downgrade while Reid's probably would prevent a downgrade. No certainty was stated.

So, saying "Standard and Poor's says Boehner's plan will not prevent the downgrade, Reid's will" reflects wishful partisan thinking on your part and the assumption that the investor's statement to Burnett is the official S&P position more than the actual content of what Burnett said.

 

[DACrowe]

I watched the video live when it was on CNN. You're insinuation is the reporter or the investor (or S&P) made that up for partisan "wishful thinking." It is not official, but S&P has said in the past a short term plan would likely lead to a downgrade because it shows American politicians are not taking the debt problem seriously. Do you think they have really changed their tune because Boehner is now proposing a short-term plan for political gain?

 

[Marx]

Short-term plans are not the answer.

 

[Marx]

UPDATE: TRUMP THINKS REPUBLICANS SHOULD LET COUNTRY DEFAULT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/..._n_909716.html#s280957&title=The_Stock_Market

...because it would mean that President Obama wouldn't get re-elected.

 

[DACrowe]

After all, the Donald knows a thing or two (or three or four) about going into bankruptcy.

Indeed, he says he can't get reelected and in 100 years nobody will remember Boehner or Cantor so Obama goes down as a failure. Country be damned in the process! I think he has articulated what a lot of Tea Party House members are thinking.

 

[8wid]

Ron Paul knew everything

 

[redhawk23]

RECESSION WIDENS RACIAL WEALTH GAP

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/new...te_black_hispanic/index.htm?cnn=yes&hpt=hp_c1

The study, from 2009 data compiled by the Pew Research Center, found the median wealth of white households was 20 times that of black households and 18 times that of Hispanic households.

According to the study, the inflation-adjusted median wealth among Hispanic households fell 66% from 2005 to 2009. Black households suffered a 53% drop in net worth over the same period. By contrast, whites saw a decline of 16% in household wealth.

Say what you want about the reasons for that statistic but it is still quite disheartening.

 

[Handsome Rob]

I watched the video live when it was on CNN. You're insinuation is the reporter or the investor (or S&P) made that up for partisan "wishful thinking." It is not official, but S&P has said in the past a short term plan would likely lead to a downgrade because it shows American politicians are not taking the debt problem seriously. Do you think they have really changed their tune because Boehner is now proposing a short-term plan for political gain?

Partisan wishful thinking is translating, "An investor told me that the S&P said that Reid's plan probably wouldn't result in a downgrade while Boehner's plan probably would" to "Standard and Poor's says Boehner's plan will not prevent the downgrade, Reid's will." Your title took secondhand information about probability and created a title that implied a firsthand statement of certainty. Spin.

And that is what I was "insinuating" . . . although I thought it was pretty apparent when I said, "wishful partisan thinking on your part." Did you see the "your?" That's you, not her. Unless you're her. In which case, I suppose you would be right

 

[DACrowe]

Well the WSJ is reporting this "partisan wishful thinking" as fact.

 

[Paradoxium]

The CBO shat all over the Boehner plan. $851 billion in cuts and most of it is from the theoretical 10th year which totally won't happen. Obama and Democrats think the cuts are just waaaaay to steep. Bunch of lamers.

700 billion each year + 20% Cut trigger on everything with no exceptions if they fail.

 

[Handsome Rob]

EDIT: Nevermind

 

[Handsome Rob]

The CBO shat all over the Boehner plan. $851 billion in cuts and most of it is from the theoretical 10th year which totally won't happen. Obama and Democrats think the cuts are just waaaaay to steep. Bunch of lamers.

700 billion each year + 20% Cut trigger on everything with no exceptions if they fail.

Unsurprising. Both sides are putting forth crap plans that don't actually move toward solving the problem.

 

[Paradoxium]

Cost of a downgrade? Speculation is 100 billion a year.

 

[childeroland]

I don't know enough (in the least) to assess the veracity of this, but it seems interesting, so I'm posting a link.

Excerpt:

As long as we're passing out facts today, here are some more. This chart shows federal spending over the past few decades as a percentage of GDP:

All numbers are from the OMB. The trend lines are pretty simple:

1. Domestic discretionary spending and miscellaneous mandatory spending ("Other") is on a steady downward slope.
2. Interest spending is on a downward slope.
3. Defense spending has gone up over the past decade due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but otherwise is on a steady downward slope.
4. Social Security is pretty flat.
5. Medicare spending is up.

I cut this chart off at 2008 so that the long-term trends are easier to see. There's been a spike in these numbers over the past three years because the recession has temporarily depressed GDP and temporarily increased spending — just as there were spikes during the recessions of 1979, 1989, and 2001 — but that spike will go away when the economy improves. There's no special reason that it should affect our view of our long-term finances.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/07/few-little-budget-facts