Discussion: The Second Amendment IV

[terry78]

Basically alcohol and availability of weaponry is a ****ed up combination. Yes, anything in the bar can be used as a weapon like a stool or something. Hence why they're all bolted down nowadays.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Hence why bars hire security in the first place.

 

[Hotwire]

This whole bar/gun think doesn't make much sense to me. There have been few occasions where I have been in a bar where a fight didn't didn't break out. Lord forbid if one of those drunk people had a gun on them. Yes 99% of gun owners would be responsible but alcohol lowers intelligence. We don't let people drink and drive why let them have a gun?

Perfect point.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yeah, I'm against guns in bars. If you think you need a gun walking from the bar to your car in a dark alley at 3AM....don't go to the bar next to the dark alley at 3AM. Part of the responsibility of owning and carrying a gun is knowing when and where having a gun is appropriate, and trying to avoid situations where you feel you would need it. The fiance/baby daddy (we'll call him DJ) of one of my sister's friends got into a bar fight a couple years ago. He and his buddy decided it'd be best to leave and go home to their families. As they turned to exit the bar, the aggressor pulled a gun and shot DJ in the back three times and DJ's friend got hit in the arm and leg. DJ died before the ambulance got there. All because a fool with a gun got drunk and decided to start a fight.

Lol@ "We'll call him a DJ". My former roommate is a DJ. Nice kid. No common sense. Zero.

 

[Kable24]

Lol@ "We'll call him a DJ". My former roommate is a DJ. Nice kid. No common sense. Zero.

I hope he's not like this DJ. t:

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I hope he's not like this DJ. t:

Lol, no. He just runs up debts more than he runs his mouth. Usually with friends.

I lived with him, by the time I moved out he owed $1500 (three months!!!) rent, $60 to his drug guy, $300 to me for utilities, and like $700 to the other guy who was living there...he also stuck that dude with all the bills.

I bought a house, he took over my bills, then when he knew the landlord was gonna come after him he just bailed without telling anyone. Only a couple of days after I moved.

Oh, and the city police have gone after him for child support already.

It's sad. Really nice guy on a personal level, and unable to conduct himself on a professional level.

 

[Marvolo]

The map on the link shows where you can carry a gun into a establishment where alcohol is served...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html?_r=0

The law states whether or not a person can carry a gun into a restaurant where alcohol is served, not the owner...

I know and that should be changed.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Government needs to make allowances for people who choose to place themselves in dangerous situations like that. I'm not much for concealed carry, but places with alcohol and drugs are naturally going to be more dangerous and unpredictable. The fact is, anyone who is there at 3am chooses to be there, chooses to be in a dark alleyway or dark parking lot with zero people around. It'd be one thing if you worked there, or had to go through that type of environment every night due to your job or personal responsibilities. If you, however, choose to go out, get drunk, and stumble around at 3am, then you are choosing to put yourself in that danger. So, no, I don't see the need to have a gun in a bar, no matter how notoriously dangerous the place is.

And you are choosing to go into a bar. If you don't want to go into a bar that allows guns that is your choice. So don't go in.

This whole bar/gun think doesn't make much sense to me. There have been few occasions where I have been in a bar where a fight didn't didn't break out. Lord forbid if one of those drunk people had a gun on them. Yes 99% of gun owners would be responsible but alcohol lowers intelligence. We don't let people drink and drive why let them have a gun?

You should pick your bars better if you are coming face to face with that many fights. In four years of bar outings I've never once encountered a fight.

Yeah, I'm against guns in bars. If you think you need a gun walking from the bar to your car in a dark alley at 3AM....don't go to the bar next to the dark alley at 3AM. Part of the responsibility of owning and carrying a gun is knowing when and where having a gun is appropriate, and trying to avoid situations where you feel you would need it. The fiance/baby daddy (we'll call him DJ) of one of my sister's friends got into a bar fight a couple years ago. He and his buddy decided it'd be best to leave and go home to their families. As they turned to exit the bar, the aggressor pulled a gun and shot DJ in the back three times and DJ's friend got hit in the arm and leg. DJ died before the ambulance got there. All because a fool with a gun got drunk and decided to start a fight.

It's simple if you are against guns in bars go to a different bar. I don't understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. Its a private business, and the bar owner should be the one to decide what goes on in his bar. It isnt like the bar owner is forcing you into his bar and telling you "You must enter my bar!" You are an adult. It's your choice where you go. If you are not comfortable with it then do not enter. Now, am I saying we should have guns in bars? Nope. I think they should be checked at the door. But if the bar owner wants to allow it, and advertises to all customers that it is allowed then it should be perfectly fine, because every single customer is an adult and can decide if that is an environment they want to be in.

 

[Kelly]

No way...that has to be a uniform law across a state. Way too many problems can come from one restaurant allowing it and then the other not allowing it. There have been WAY TOO MAN CASES out there where "a sign" stating something was not allowed did not hold up in court. A sign????? is not law.

In my 25 YEARS of going to bars I have never seen a fight.

 

[Marvolo]

No way...that has to be a uniform law across a state. Way too many problems can come from one restaurant allowing it and then the other not allowing it. There have been WAY TOO MAN CASES out there where "a sign" stating something was not allowed did not hold up in court. A sign????? is not law.

In my 25 YEARS of going to bars I have never seen a fight.

It shouldn't be law that is my point. If you are an adult who see's a sign that says "Gun's Allowed", and you enter the place you do so at your own free will. If a drunk shoots you that is just as much your fault for going in there in the first place. It isn't rocket science. If you don't feel safe or consider it an acceptable risk then don't put yourself there. Another issue, smoking in a bar. That should be up to the owner. If someone doesn't want to be around smoke they can act like an adult who has free will and choose another bar. The government shoudln't be able to tell a bar owner whether he can let people smoke in his bar. Stick a sign on the door that says "smoking allowed" Anyone who doesn't want to be around it can choose to not enter.

 

[Kelly]

It shouldn't be law that is my point. If you are an adult who see's a sign that says "Gun's Allowed", and you enter the place you do so at your own free will. If a drunk shoots you that is just as much your fault for going in there in the first place. It isn't rocket science. If you don't feel safe or consider it an acceptable risk then don't put yourself there. Another issue, smoking in a bar. That should be up to the owner. If someone doesn't want to be around smoke they can act like an adult who has free will and choose another bar. The government shoudln't be able to tell a bar owner he can' let people smoke in his bar. Stick a sign on the door that says "smoking allowed" Anyone who doesn't want to be around it can choose to not enter.

Well, sorry as a non-smoker, I am thankful that people can only smoke outside in the bars I frequent. If the no smoking ban was lifted, most, if not all of the pubs I frequent would allow smoking inside, and because of my asthma I would have to stop going. As is, I have to go quickly past those smoking outside.

 

[wiegeabo]

Then the state-wide law needs to be that the sign is the owner's half of informed consent. And choosing to be their customer and not go somewhere else is the customer's half of informed consent and the agreement to abide by their rules.

The owners that allow guns but don't keep their customers in check, and let situations escalate, will find themselves without customers and a business pretty damn quick. Problem solved.

Also, owners who allow guns, and find that no one wants to come in now, will change that policy pretty quick too. (And it'll reward the owners who never allowed it with additional customers.)


Maybe if stop babying people it might actually force them to be smarter and start thinking just a little bit more before go/act.

 

[Kelly]

Then the state-wide law needs to be that the sign is the owner's half of informed consent. And choosing to be their customer and not go somewhere else is the customer's half of informed consent and the agreement to abide by their rules.

The owners that allow guns but don't keep their customers in check, and let situations escalate, will find themselves without customers and a business pretty damn quick. Problem solved.

Also, owners who allow guns, and find that no one wants to come in now, will change that policy pretty quick too. (And it'll reward the owners who never allowed it with additional customers.)


Maybe if stop babying people it might actually force them to be smarter and start thinking just a little bit more before go/act.

That would help as far as court cases, for sure....but none of the laws state that right now, and probably won't.

This is for the last statement..... not gonna happen.

 

[wiegeabo]

Well, sorry as a non-smoker, I am thankful that people can only smoke outside in the bars I frequent. If the no smoking ban was lifted, most, if not all of the pubs I frequent would allow smoking inside, and because of my asthma I would have to stop going. As is, I have to go quickly past those smoking outside.

I have asthma too, but I agree with Marvolo on this.

Why? Because the bars that continue to ban smoking will clean up by getting all the customers like us who don't want to be around the smoke.

And, it'll attract the smokers away from our smoke-free bars, so we don't have to deal with as many standing outside to smoke either.

(Although I do support not having smoking sections. Those don't work. Either all smoke, or no smoke.)

 

[Kelly]

I have asthma too, but I agree with Marvolo on this.

Why? Because the bars that continue to ban smoking will clean up by getting all the customers like us who don't want to be around the smoke.

And, it'll attract the smokers away from our smoke-free bars, so we don't have to deal with as many standing outside to smoke either.

(Although I do support not having smoking sections. Those don't work. Either all smoke, or no smoke.)

I can assure you, there is not a pub around me that won't go back to allowing smoking inside.

 

[wiegeabo]

That would help as far as court cases, for sure....but none of the laws state that right now, and probably won't.

They don't state it now because no one thinks like that, and tells their politicians to think like that.

Everyone has gotten into this mindset of "make government fix what I don't like" instead of just letting people be adults and make their own decisions.

On the flip side, I do agree with bans like no smoking within x number of feet of an establishment's doors. Firstly because it's unfair to non-smokers who are forced to wade through the smoke just to get inside/outside. Secondly, it's government regulating public spaces rather than private property.

 

[wiegeabo]

I can assure you, there is not a pub around me that won't go back to allowing smoking inside.

That sucks, but it should be up to the owner. His property, his rules.

And all it would take is for one smart entrepreneur to open a smoke free bar, and they'd get ALL of that business those bars would be passing up.

 

[Kelly]

That sucks, but it should be up to the owner. His property, his rules.

And all it would take is for one smart entrepreneur to open a smoke free bar, and they'd get ALL of that business those bars would be passing up.

No, we all have to follow laws, even with our own homes, cars, etc....nope, disagree.

 

[wiegeabo]

No, we all have to follow laws, even with our own homes, cars, etc....nope, disagree.

We only have to follow those laws because they exist.

Laws aren't some sacrosanct that have always been. They can be changed. And some need to be changed.

Who cares what I do in my own home as long as it's not hurting anyone else? (And if anyone else in the house is fine with it; e.g. smoking.)

As one of my philosophy professors put it, "It's nobody's business if I want to ride around my living room on a Harley, with a fifth of Jack in one hand, a kilo of blow in the other, blasting death metal if it's not hurting anyone else and it makes me happy."

Besides, gotta get passed the 4th amendment before coming into my home. As one of my English teachers said, jokingly, "It ain't illegal if you don't get caught "

 

[Webfoot Hero]

The initial list of weapons that Diane Feinstein put on her AWB legislation:

As for the legislation itself, it was co-sponsored by the senators from some of the most anti-gun states: IL, MA, MD, NY, and NJ.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Biden admits that assault weapons don't kill that many people but are still too dangerous for the average civilian to own.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...eapons-Are-Not-Used-In-Majority-Of-Gun-Deaths

 

[roach]

You should pick your bars better if you are coming face to face with that many fights. In four years of bar outings I've never once encountered a fight.

I am african american...for some reason when we get the devil's juice in us we get scrappy

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Due to the increasing amount of vendors and speakers pulling out, Reed Exhibitions has had to indefinitely postpone the 2013 Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show. Goes to show what happens to a group who alienates their targeted attendees.

http://www.abc27.com/story/20668912/eastern-sports-and-outdoor-show-postponed

 

[Kelly]

We only have to follow those laws because they exist.

Laws aren't some sacrosanct that have always been. They can be changed. And some need to be changed.

Who cares what I do in my own home as long as it's not hurting anyone else? (And if anyone else in the house is fine with it; e.g. smoking.)

As one of my philosophy professors put it, "It's nobody's business if I want to ride around my living room on a Harley, with a fifth of Jack in one hand, a kilo of blow in the other, blasting death metal if it's not hurting anyone else and it makes me happy."

Besides, gotta get passed the 4th amendment before coming into my home. As one of my English teachers said, jokingly, "It ain't illegal if you don't get caught "

I understand that, and I don't think those regarding guns/smoking prohibited in resturants and bars should be changed that's all......

 

[Phallic]

Feinstein's AWB has a prognosis (last I checked) of having a 1% of passing.

At this point, I really don't think an AWB will pass. Nor should it.

 

[Kelly]

Feinstein's AWB has a prognosis (last I checked) of having a 1% of passing.

At this point, I really don't think an AWB will pass. Nor should it.

As it is written???? no it shouldn't pass.

Will the President and Democrats paint the Republicans as the nemesis to a desire to save our children from the hands of psychotic killers weilding all of these weapons? YES, 100% CHANCE of that happening.

And to help their Dem friends out that vote against it, they will say in their talking points. They have a large number of NRA loving people in their districts and states that will begin a slam campaign against the Dems that do not vote against this legislation, they had no choice. (Then in 2014 and 2016, these Dems will get absolutely no help or money from the DNC and they will either almost loose their seat or be voted out....)