Discussion: The Second Amendment V

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thread Manager, Apr 5, 2013.

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  1. wiegeabo Omniposcient

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    I foresee something similar to the South Park movie where all the Quebecois are put on the front lines for some reason...
     
  2. Thundercrack85 Registered

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    I'm not convinced Wayne Lapierre and his ilk are good guys.
     
  3. hippie_hunter The King is Back!

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    Wayne LaPierre is a bad guy who is just making things worse for the gun rights group.
     
  4. KevanG Pragmatic Villain

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    And the Acadians. I mean, whatever would give you that idea?
     
  5. dnno1 Registered

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    LaPierre is the executive VP of the NRA and for all intents, the visible spokesperson for the Gun Industry. He is not supposed to be a bad guy, but (in my opinion) his interests are skewed towards the industry and not so much the individual. In any case, he is supposed to speak for gun rights and those who support the right to bear arms. Somebody needs to correct him when he is wrong.
     
  6. hippie_hunter The King is Back!

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    I think LaPierre is fighting for the gun rights of the individual and not so much the industry. The problem is that he is the epitome of just what is wrong with the gun rights movement. A movement that is becoming more and more bogged down by selfishness and stupidity.
     
  7. SV Fan Registered

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    The NRA basically is a promotional(fear) tool for the gun industry so they can scare people into buying more guns(because Big Government is coming to take them away)

    I think generally what happened was the NRA used to be a gun safety group for the most part, but the combination of big money from the gun industry and farther right gun groups calling them out for being to liberal caused them from being a responsible gun usage group to a group who thinks the the second amendment is what the country was found on and #1 in their books.
     
  8. mrvlknight21 Pullups for breakfast!!

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    You keep bringing this up, and I restate that I don't necessarily see how he was wrong with the "good guy with a gun" comments. Is it the ONLY way to stop a bad guy? No, of course, not, but can it be an effective way? Of course. There are plenty of stories of individuals stopping criminals in some fashion by using their personal firearms. His statement maybe a little simplistic, but I understand where he is coming from. Its not a magic solution to all criminal violence, and I do not think that is what he meant.

    I will also restate that a person who carries a firearm with an expectation to use it to protect themselves or their family should get the proper training OFTEN and truly be prepared to use it. The whole "with great power" idea comes to mind..a little hokey when applied here, but "a good guy with a gun" can cause and get into a lot of problems if they do not know what they are doing. That is why I ALWAYS emphasize training. I have posted about it MANY times in this thread.

    I can not stress how important good, hands-on training (not playing Call of Duty or watching youtube videos) is for gun owners who want to carry their firearms to protect themselves or their families. I want to be sure to add that just because a person has a gun, training, and the desire to stop the bad guy does NOT mean they should intervene everytime. I will repeat, situations with criminals and violence are dynamic and ever-evolving. One minute it may appear that I can/should take action and the next minute, it is clear that I should not, or vice versa. To reference Call of Duty above, life is not a video game where all you do is shoot and get shot at. Real life actions have consequences, real life situations have bystanders, emotions, lawsuits, and plenty of other factors that many people (even gun owners) do not consider on a regular basis.

    I will say one more time, there isn't one individual source, person, or group that I rely on for my news, opinions, political commentary, etc., and this is no different. Despite owning multiple guns, I am not a member of the NRA or any other gun rights organization. So what LaPierre or anyone else says does not dictate my views.

    There are certainly lots of incidents that have caused the gun rights movement (generally speaking) to get muddy. But overall, the NRA still does push for individual gun rights more strongly than any other organization. And they have the members, money, and connections to get their voice out there more than others.

    A lot of people would probably agree with this.
     
    #908 mrvlknight21, Jun 11, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  9. Thundercrack85 Registered

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    In some cases potentially, but I remember when that idiot Louie Gohmert talked about the Colorado shooting. Depending on the circumstances, more guns might actually result in more causalities, especially when these people have never used them in a life or death emergency situation.
     
  10. mrvlknight21 Pullups for breakfast!!

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    Correct, which is exactly what I mentioned above.


    Cut and paste from my previous post:
    I will also restate that a person who carries a firearm with an expectation to use it to protect themselves or their family should get the proper training OFTEN and truly be prepared to use it. The whole "with great power" idea comes to mind..a little hokey when applied here, but "a good guy with a gun" can cause and get into a lot of problems if they do not know what they are doing. That is why I ALWAYS emphasize training. I have posted about it MANY times in this thread.

    I can not stress how important good, hands-on training (not playing Call of Duty or watching youtube videos) is for gun owners who want to carry their firearms to protect themselves or their families. I want to be sure to add that just because a person has a gun, training, and the desire to stop the bad guy does NOT mean they should intervene everytime. I will repeat, situations with criminals and violence are dynamic and ever-evolving. One minute it may appear that I can/should take action and the next minute, it is clear that I should not, or vice versa. To reference Call of Duty above, life is not a video game where all you do is shoot and get shot at. Real life actions have consequences, real life situations have bystanders, emotions, lawsuits, and plenty of other factors that many people (even gun owners) do not consider on a regular basis.


    And another post on the last page:
    Agreed, EVERY incident is different and "active shooter" situations are dynamic, rapidly evolving scenarios that are always extremely dangerous for anyone responding, anyone nearby, etc. Unfortunately, they almost always end in death for multiple people and if there was a simple solution, I would be all for it.
     
  11. SV Fan Registered

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    Look at the most recent NRA convention, it seems like alot of the speakers about Gun Rights brought up everything from the IRS to Obamacare to Gay Marriage(and how those are examples of people taking America away from real Americans), to which I assume since it's a gun rights convention they believe guns are the solution to that problem because otherwise those issues really shouldn't be a topic of discussion at a Gun Lovers convention
     
  12. Thundercrack85 Registered

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    I think the NRA is a year away from becoming a full blown hate group.
     
  13. warhorse78 Registered

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    Why are individuals in other countries so worried about the policies and laws in the USA? It's quite simple, if you don't care for the laws and policies of the USA, then just stay out. That simple.
     
  14. dnno1 Registered

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    Because a lot of guns purchased here gets trafficked into other countries. Mexico is a perfect example of that if have been paying attention to the news.
     
  15. Anubis Sup?

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    Well, it's okay cuz Mexico gives us lots of drugs in exchange.
     
  16. KevanG Pragmatic Villain

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    Because I live in Canada, which you may be aware is right above the USA, and there is a lot of guns that get trafficked up here from the US, so it kinda has a direct connection to what I'm talking about.
     
  17. The Overlord Registered

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    Does that mean people from the US should not be allowed to comment on political situations in other countries? I don't think many people would agree with that.

    We live in a new, globalized world, political situations in one country can easily effect another. No man is an island, especially in the information age.
     
  18. Thundercrack85 Registered

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    America can't pretend to be the leader of the free world on Tuesday, and get annoyed when foreigners voice their concern about domestic policies on Wednesday.
     
  19. dnno1 Registered

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    Some of these gun experts use the meme that you have to own and operate a gun to even be qualified to comment on them. Now you also have to be from the USA.
     
  20. mrvlknight21 Pullups for breakfast!!

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    While I don't believe that you need to own or operate a gun to comment on them, you really really should have SOME working knowledge of a firearm. There was the politician who made waves discussing how gun "clips" become unable to be used again after someone has fired the rounds that are in them (she said they had to be discarded) is a perfect example. She was apparently a major supporter of a high capacity magazine ban and said this during a discussion about gun control, no less.

    Here is an article about that comment:
    http://www.denverpost.com/politics/...criticism-pretty-stupid-ammo-magazine-comment

    And a cut and paste from the article (but not the entire article)
    WASHINGTON — Democratic Rep. Diana DeGette drew national criticism Wednesday for remarks made at a public forum in which she said banning high-capacity in ammunition magazines would be effective in reducing gun violence because "the bullets will have been shot and there won't be any more available."

    For years in Congress, DeGette has been the prime sponsor on a federal ban on high-capacity magazines.

    But despite the congresswoman's claim, ammunition magazines can be reloaded with more bullets and can be reused hundreds of times.

    "These are ammunition, they're bullets, so the people who have those now, they're going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high-capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won't be any more available," she said at Tuesday's forum, hosted by The Denver Post's editorial board.

    DeGette spokeswoman Juliet Johnson on Wednesday said the senior congresswoman from Denver "misspoke" and then issued another erroneous statement about guns.

    "The congresswoman has been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years and has been deeply involved in the issue; she simply misspoke in referring to 'magazines' when she should have referred to 'clips,' which cannot be reused because they don't have a feeding mechanism," Johnson said.

    Actually, clips in most guns can be reused as well.

    Immediately after DeGette's Tuesday remark, the audience in The Post building chuckled and Larimer County Sheriff Justin Smith, who was also on the panel, urged people who have not shot a gun to "get to the facts. ... Let's be educated as we make this decision."

    The National Rifle Association issued a simple statement: "Two words: Pretty stupid."

    The Colorado GOP called DeGette's statements "extremely alarming" because, the group said, she is running a piece of federal legislation that she apparently doesn't know anything about.


    So, yes, in cases like this, the individual discussing their stance on a form of gun control and a method to make that happen should at least have the facts about how a gun magazine operates.

    Nancy Grace looked foolish on her own show once as well, when discussing the firearm used in the Trayvon Martin incident. It was a Kel-Tec PF9. She asked some member of her panel that day about the manual safety on the PF9. He responded that the only safety on that firearm was keeping your finger off the trigger (my paraphrased version) and she responded by admonishing him for trying to trick her. I have this firearm and there is NO external manual safety on this firearm. She was wrong, but claimed that she KNEW there was some manual external safety that Zimmerman must have turned off or something.

    Again, she clearly does not know enough about the firearm to have that discussion.

    Here is the video:
    [YT]hdrrHvN5wMQ[/YT]
     
  21. DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs Registered

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    You Can't Lie When You Buy A Gun For Someone Else, Supreme Court Rules

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1493_k5g1.pdf

    The fact that there were any dissenting arguments on this is insane! Who in their right mind thinks it is acceptable to lie on the forms to get guns?
     
  22. DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs Registered

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    100 People Watch as Man Kills Ex-Wife, New Boyfriend at School Reunion

    [​IMG]

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/...d-as-100-people-watch-at-high-school-reunion/

    Notice how the hero here was an off duty officer and has been trained to act in these types of situations. Horrible tragedy that this man killed these two but kudos to the officer from preventing any further violence. I doubt the man would have shot anyone else but assuming somebody that wasn't trained tried to be a hero it could have been much worse
     
  23. dnno1 Registered

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    The point of limiting the number of bullets in a clip is to force the shooter to reload, giving the opposition a chance to stop the attack (presuming that it is). Even if it is for a few seconds it may be enough. It is just unfortunate that it came out of the legislators mouth the wrong way. I think commom ssnse would tell you that anyway.
     
  24. Webfoot Hero West Coaster

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    Or she was a complete moron who was trying to discuss a topic she had no knowledge on.
     
  25. mrvlknight21 Pullups for breakfast!!

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    It is pretty clear that she has no clue, here is the video of what she said and how she explains it. It is also pretty clear to me that she did not misspeak. She just does not understand how guns, magazines, and ammunition work.

    [YT]Mxtu228bYFw[/YT]
     
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