Discussion: The Second Amendment V

[Thundercrack85]

I don't think she misspoke. I think she just doesn't know what the hell she is talking about.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Nearly half of all gun dealers in the United States are at least somewhat dependent on the Mexican gun trade for their livelihood. Huh, you never hear about that in the NRA commercials, do you?

http://catcher.sandiego.edu/items/peacestudies/way_of_the_gun.pdf

 

[mrvlknight21]

http://catcher.sandiego.edu/items/peacestudies/way_of_the_gun.pdf

Wow, that is one HORRIBLY put together study. It is based on estimates, theories, estimates of estimates and road distances....not actual evidence. To put it nicely, I could create my own theories based on various variables that are based on estimates and probably come up with just about any conclusion that you wanted if I were to use a system like that.

There is no doubt that many guns that are found in Mexico came from the United States. That has been proven. HOWEVER, to say that FFL dealers in the United States are somewhat dependent on illegal sales/trafficking/etc of guns to Mexico is a stretch to say the least.

My guess, based on 25 years in law enforcement, is that a large portion of the guns that wind up in Mexico came from many other criminal means here in the U.S. For example, theft from FFLs, thefts from homes, and so on.

Also, because the study does not properly categorize the firearms (or use any real evidence), then it doesn't even take into consideration that many of the guns in Mexico are fully automatic firearms (true "assault weapons" ) and 1) only certain FFL dealers can even sell these firearms and 2) they are extremely expensive and require extensive paperwork, so the few dealers that do carry them have very few on hand AND don't sell many of them at all. So, where are these guns coming from? Not American FFL dealers? They are very likely military firearms that have been obtained illegally.

Here is an article that says that these fully automatic firearms are used MORE often in crimes by drug cartels:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-percent-of-guns-found-in-mexico-come-from-us
That statistic alone blows your article's theory right out of the water.

All that said, I have no doubt that there are many straw purchasers in border towns in Texas, Arizona, and so on that are making legal firearms purchases and then selling/transporting them to Mexico, either because of their own cartel connection or whatever.

I would also point out that if I legally purchase a handgun and later legally sell it to another citizen and they have it stolen and it winds up in Mexico, the FFL dealer did NOT depend on some Mexican demand to make that sale.

 

[SV Fan]

Here is natural selection at it's finest

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...is-Penis-While-Holstering-Gun-at-Gas-Station#

GA Man Shoots His Penis While Holstering Gun at Gas Station

A Macon man was treated at Coliseum Northside hospital Thursday after he accidentally shot himself in the penis.

The man was parked at the gas station at about 9:30 p.m. when he attempted to holster his .45. Immediately after the gun went off, he drove to a friend's house in Lake Wildwood. When he got to the friends house, he took off his pants and saw that he had "shot himself in the penis and that the bullet exited out of his buttocks." The spent round fell onto the floor.

 

[wiegeabo]

...did he not feel it?

 

[SV Fan]

...did he not feel it?

I am guessing the fact since he felt the need to wear a gun holster at a gas station, there wasn't much to shoot at so he didn't notice it.

At least the good gun beat the bad gun.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Here is natural selection at it's finest

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...is-Penis-While-Holstering-Gun-at-Gas-Station#

GA Man Shoots His Penis While Holstering Gun at Gas Station

Too many...

- Was it wearing a hoodie?

- He's a Alfie Allen fan who took it way too far.

- It wasn't his fault, it was coming right at him!

- He only shot his penis on the left side, so at least it's not gay or anything.

- Believe it or not, Pfizer has a pill for this too.

- Remember, the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun and mutilated genitalia.

 

[mrvlknight21]

Here is natural selection at it's finest

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...is-Penis-While-Holstering-Gun-at-Gas-Station#

This happens OFTEN, and 99% of the time its someone who is holstering with their finger on the trigger or at least inside the trigger guard. I say 99% because there was a case where an officer was reholstering once and a toggle from his jacket got caught in the trigger guard and caused the gun to fire when he holstered it.

Oh, and I don't believe the story about him not noticing it...pain, blood, etc would have let him know within a few seconds, even with the likely adrenaline rush caused by the gun firing.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Ballsiest Robbers Ever Are Mugging Armed Citizens at Gun Ranges

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29143647&postcount=302

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Vendor Shoots Woman At Gun Show While Demonstrating Gun Use

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29177691&postcount=339

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Good Guys Celebrate New Georgia Gun Law By Almost Shooting Each Other

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29194555&postcount=352

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Do you like Hooters but find it too disarming? Try Shooters, the Rifle, Colorado, bar and grill where every waitress is strapped with a six-gun. "People can come in carrying their gun, and they can pray over their food," the owner says, adding that the joint has "guns and Jesus all over the place."

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/223886/at-shooters-grill-waitresses-carry-guns/

Finally a god fearing place I can bring my family and my guns too

 

[Thundercrack85]

Because nothing goes together like guns and Jesus.

 

[KevanG]

And bewbs.

 

[mrvlknight21]

Vendor Shoots Woman At Gun Show While Demonstrating Gun Use

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29177691&postcount=339

This incident and guys failure to perform a safety check has nothing to do with gun shows. So I don't understand your comment, about shutting down these gun shows. Instead, this guy who failed to act safely and properly needs to be disciplined and kept far away from firearms.

Good Guys Celebrate New Georgia Gun Law By Almost Shooting Each Other

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29194555&postcount=352

Yet another reason that I do not open carry and don't recommend it to anyone else.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

This incident and guys failure to perform a safety check has nothing to do with gun shows. So I don't understand your comment, about shutting down these gun shows. Instead, this guy who failed to act safely and properly needs to be disciplined and kept far away from firearms.



Yet another reason that I do not open carry and don't recommend it to anyone else.

My comment about gun shows is how people can pick up firearms without passing background checks, get kits to turn there weapons full auot and a host of other BS gun shows are known for. I know it doesn't have much to do with the person accidentally shooting another person so I can see the confusion.

And agreed about the open carry stuff, much better for a person to have the jump on a bad guy than blatantly showing off your weapon

 

[mrvlknight21]

My comment about gun shows is how people can pick up firearms without passing background checks, get kits to turn there weapons full auot and a host of other BS gun shows are known for. I know it doesn't have much to do with the person accidentally shooting another person so I can see the confusion.

And agreed about the open carry stuff, much better for a person to have the jump on a bad guy than blatantly showing off your weapon

It seems like you don't have much firsthand knowledge of gun shows. I have been to many over many years. Any FFL dealer at a gun show is required to follow the EXACT same process as they would at a brick and mortar store, that is, a form 4473 and background check. The ONLY firearms sales that can be done without those things are private sales (in other words, an individual selling a gun from their personal collection). This is not illegal, and happens RARELY at gun shows. The majority of sales like that happen through armslist and other websites designed to help people sell their guns (www.theoutdoorstrader.com is a very popular one here in.Georgia). I would also point out that at the last gun show I went to (May of this year) there were about 30 or more vendors who were FFL dealers (and required by law to perform the background check and proper paperwork) and only 1 private seller (the ratio is typically about like this on almost every gun show that I have attended) and that private seller's "collection " was laughable. He had a few old, rusty tiny semi automatic handguns, and a couple of antique shotguns. I highly doubt that he sold any of them.

Additionally, NOBODY can sell kits to convert their firearms to full auto without facing serious charges. Every gun show I have ever been to has been loaded with police officers and federal officers (including me), both uniformed and non uniformed. So, I will assume that you are referring to the rarely ever sold piece of junk "bump fire " kits which are legal, do NOT make the gun fire full auto (just very fast and typically difficult to control, making it worthless) and generally not worth any price.

Not sure what "other BS" you are referring to, but it really sounds like you are just repeating some general misconceptions about gun.shows.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

It seems like you don't have much firsthand knowledge of gun shows. I have been to many over many years. Any FFL dealer at a gun show is required to follow the EXACT same process as they would at a brick and mortar store, that is, a form 4473 and background check. The ONLY firearms sales that can be done without those things are private sales (in other words, an individual selling a gun from their personal collection). This is not illegal, and happens RARELY at gun shows. The majority of sales like that happen through armslist and other websites designed to help people sell their guns (www.theoutdoorstrader.com is a very popular one here in.Georgia). I would also point out that at the last gun show I went to (May of this year) there were about 30 or more vendors who were FFL dealers (and required by law to perform the background check and proper paperwork) and only 1 private seller (the ratio is typically about like this on almost every gun show that I have attended) and that private seller's "collection " was laughable. He had a few old, rusty tiny semi automatic handguns, and a couple of antique shotguns. I highly doubt that he sold any of them.

Additionally, NOBODY can sell kits to convert their firearms to full auto without facing serious charges. Every gun show I have ever been to has been loaded with police officers and federal officers (including me), both uniformed and non uniformed. So, I will assume that you are referring to the rarely ever sold piece of junk "bump fire " kits which are legal, do NOT make the gun fire full auto (just very fast and typically difficult to control, making it worthless) and generally not worth any price.

Not sure what "other BS" you are referring to, but it really sounds like you are just repeating some general misconceptions about gun.shows.

The one gun show I've been to was like you described, mostly gun stores or other FFL dealers with few private dealers.

As for the full auto kits and other BS, sounds like stuff he picked up from other anti-gun people or stuff he doesn't have first-hand knowledge about.

 

[Evelisse]

So Chicago, what's the deal?

Chicago's Fourth of July weekend toll: 82 people shot, 14 of them fatally

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/c...eekend-toll-82-people-shot-14-of-them-fatally

CHICAGO — For 10 minutes, it seemed like the shooting was everywhere in the South Chicago neighborhood.


It started when someone shot and wounded a couple, then two people fired at the shooter, then there was a chase and shots exchanged and a man sitting on a porch was hit. Responding officers kept cutting each other off on their radios as they reported other gunfire in the area late Sunday night and early Monday morning.

Then the heavy equipment rolled in: A helicopter and SUVs packed with lockers of rifles. SWAT teams in green coveralls patrolled the streets with uniformed officers.

It was just one of dozens of shooting scenes across Chicago over the long Fourth of July weekend. In all, at least 82 people were shot, 14 of them fatally, since Thursday afternoon when two woman were shot as they sat outside a two-flat within a block of Garfield Park.

Five of the people were shot by police over 36 hours on Friday and Saturday, including two boys 14 and 16 who were killed when they allegedly refused to drop their guns.

Many of the long weekend's shootings were on the South Side, clustered in the Englewood, Roseland, Gresham and West Pullman neighborhoods that rank among the most violent in the city.

The victims ranged from the 14-year-boy shot by police in the Old Irving Park neighborhood to a 66-year-old woman grazed in the head as she walked up the steps of her porch on the Far South Side. Most victims were in their late teens and 20s.

Each night of the long holiday weekend, at least a dozen people were shot in the greatest burst of gun violence Chicago has seen this year.

—From Thursday night into Friday, three people were killed and 10 others wounded. An attack outside a West Englewood salon left two men dead and an East Garfield Park shooting took the life of a 21-year-old woman.

—From Friday afternoon into Saturday, 20 people were shot, one fatally. The man who died had been flashing gang signs in a parking lot in the Clearing neighborhood when someone told him to stop. When the man didn't, he was shot, police said.

—From Saturday night into Sunday morning, four people were killed and another 10 wounded.

—The bloodiest stretch of the weekend was a 13-hour period between 2:30 p.m. Sunday and 3:30 a.m. Monday when four people were killed and at least another 26 wounded, many of them in critical condition. And the most chaotic scene was in South Chicago, where three people were wounded during a running gun battle.

The shooting started around 11:20 p.m. Sunday when someone opened fire at two people who just left a store on Exchange Avenue south of 80th Street. A 25-year-old man was taken in critical condition to Northwestern Memorial Hospital and a 19-year-old woman was stabilized at Advocate Christ Medical Center.

While the man was firing, two people on the street shot at him and a chase ensued, with the three exchanging gunfire through a vacant lot west toward Escanaba Avenue, police and neighbors said.

The three didn't hit each other but a 48-year-old man was caught in the crossfire while sitting on the porch. He was wounded in the ankle and taken to Jackson Park Hospital.

The shooting kicked off an hour of occasional chaos as responding officers kept hearing gunfire, first the exchange between the three, then an apparently unrelated volley of shots a few blocks west on Muskegon Avenue where police found shell casings on a porch.

A 10-1 — a call for an officer in distress — was broadcast across the city because the shots were so close to police.

Officers from across the South Side responded, including tactical teams who had been ordered to wear their uniforms instead of plainclothes for the holiday weekend.

Police were radioing about hearing gunfire all over the neighborhood, and a district lieutenant ordered a perimeter over a three-block-by-four-block area. No one was taken into custody.

As a helicopter circled overhead, someone shot up a house a few blocks south on Exchange Avenue, just outside the perimeter, around midnight. The gunfire was called over the police radio before any 911 calls were received, and officers ran down the street toward where the gunfire came from.

The house that was hit by gunfire, in the 8400 block of South Exchange, was near where a teen had been shot earlier in the day and police had responded to a call of a gang disturbance. A group of gang members had been hanging out outside and someone wanted them removed, police said.

About half an hour later, the neighborhood had finally quieted down. "Release the perimeter," the lieutenant ordered, though he asked that patrol cars keep a watch on the four crime scenes.

 

[Feenix]

What. The. F***.

Apparently, a "good" guy with a gun who shoots at a "bad" guy with a gun will just end up causing more violence and death.

Rocket science.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Chicago has the problem of trying to implement the strictest gun laws in the nation when everyone else around them isn't hoping on board. That's just a recipe for disaster.

 

[Anubis]

Basically. They finally got a guy last year who was buying guns in Indiana and selling them to gang members in the City. In Indiana you don't even need to present a FOID card. He just showed them his ID and walked away with a s**t load of guns.

 

[KevanG]

Holy ****.

And people wonder why I never want to go to the USA. At least up here the odds of getting shot while walking around are incredibly low.

 

[Anubis]

It's still pretty low. The problem here is that it's just really bad in certain places. I live in Chicago and I can tell you, it's a block by block thing. You just gotta know where not to go.

 

[Evelisse]

I'm sure it's not all bad there, though stories like this (which for some reason doesn't to me at least, seem to be getting nearly as enough coverage in the news as it should) does conjure Dredd imagery