Discussion: The Second Amendment V

[Kelly]

LOL...and she will every time. I don't fault her for it, that is a passionate issue for her and very personal. I don't necessarily agree with her on this issue, but I respect her tenacity.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

LOL...and she will every time. I don't fault her for it, that is a passionate issue for her and very personal. I don't necessarily agree with her on this issue, but I respect her tenacity.

And she went with inaccurate reports before official word came out. The FBI stated the shooter was armed with a shotgun he bought and 2 handguns he likely took from the law enforcement officers he shot. Seems others went directly for the AR-15 in their arguments on TV and in the newspapers, making themselves look like complete morons (i.e. Piers Morgan of CNN and Mike Lupica from NY Daily News.)

 

[wiegeabo]

Once again the news agencies are taking heat for all the bad information they kept releasing to make 'Breaking News'.

It's not news if the information is wrong. It's 'Breaking Gossip' at that point.


Here's two tweets I saw commenting on CNN's 'reporting' during the incident:

"CNN anchor can't think of another instance in which a gunman went wild on a military base."

"From CNN anchor to interviewee: "what do you suppose is going on in there? I'm not asking you to speculate"..."


This is what passes for journalism today. And it does more harm than good during a time when we seriously need to have a rational discussion about how to stop incidents like this.

 

[Tao43]

Here's two tweets I saw commenting on CNN's 'reporting' during the incident:

"CNN anchor can't think of another instance in which a gunman went wild on a military base."

I was in shock when I heard about that. The Ft. Hood shooting was only four years ago. Has she been living under a rock or does it not matter because it did not happen in Washington DC?

 

[Kelly]

And she went with inaccurate reports before official word came out. The FBI stated the shooter was armed with a shotgun he bought and 2 handguns he likely took from the law enforcement officers he shot. Seems others went directly for the AR-15 in their arguments on TV and in the newspapers, making themselves look like complete morons (i.e. Piers Morgan of CNN and Mike Lupica from NY Daily News.)

That's what happens when you watch the news... You end up looking like as big of morons as the media themselves, just ask Obama.

 

[Hotwire]

Once again the news agencies are taking heat for all the bad information they kept releasing to make 'Breaking News'.

If I was going to blame anyone for the misinformation that comes with these reports, I would actually blame the audience. We, as a whole, tend to demand more and more information at faster and faster rates. We want to know as much as possible as quickly as possible. The sad part is, we tend to get pissed when we don't get it. If CNN isn't telling us anything, we change the channel. Nothing on Fox News, over to MSNBC we go. Nothing there so, off to the internet. The news networks are simply trying to keep their viewers on their channel. Sadly, in their attempt to do it, they'll report anything. Kind of a, forgive the analogy, shoot first and ask questions later approach. If we weren't such an instant gratification society, we would get more accurate reporting. It sucks but, that's pretty much what's going on.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I was in shock when I heard about that. The Ft. Hood shooting was only four years ago. Has she been living under a rock or does it not matter because it did not happen in Washington DC?

It's CNN so it wasn't so surprising to see them make such a big error. Plus, I want to know where you can get one of those AR-15 shotguns that CNN also said the suspect used. It was just another day of failure on their part.

 

[Tao43]

Plus, I want to know where you can get one of those AR-15 shotguns that CNN also said the suspect used.

Well, there is the AA-12. It kinda sorta looks like an AR-15...although to me, it looks more like an old school Vietnam era M-16A1.


True, it is CNN...but honestly? How inept can they really be? Nadal Hassan was just sentenced a few weeks ago. That was a fairly big story. To quote Wakko Warner...the mind boggles.

 

[roach]

Once again the news agencies are taking heat for all the bad information they kept releasing to make 'Breaking News'.

It's not news if the information is wrong. It's 'Breaking Gossip' at that point.


Here's two tweets I saw commenting on CNN's 'reporting' during the incident:

"CNN anchor can't think of another instance in which a gunman went wild on a military base."

"From CNN anchor to interviewee: "what do you suppose is going on in there? I'm not asking you to speculate"..."


This is what passes for journalism today. And it does more harm than good during a time when we seriously need to have a rational discussion about how to stop incidents like this.

The Daily Show ripped them a new one last night.

 

[Cosmic]

Look at the histories of most of these high-profile mass murderers, and it's crystal clear that they had mental health issues that should've been identified and dealt with by people who knew. Red flags all along the way. I'm not even blaming any single person for failing to stop these men from killing people. I'm just saying that if we really want to do something to try and stop these incidents from happening, then we need to focus much more on mental health than gun control. I'm very...skeptical...of new gun control proposals. They usually sound like simple, knee-jerk reactions to complex problems that require complex thinking and solutions. In my gut, I feel that they will fail to solve the core problems.

 

[roach]

Look at the histories of most of these high-profile mass murderers, and it's crystal clear that they had mental health issues that should've been identified and dealt with by people who knew. Red flags all along the way. I'm not even blaming any single person for failing to stop these men from killing people. I'm just saying that if we really want to do something to try and stop these incidents from happening, then we need to focus much more on mental health than gun control. I'm very...skeptical...of new gun control proposals. They usually sound like simple, knee-jerk reactions to complex problems that require complex thinking and solutions. In my gut, I feel that they will fail to solve the core problems.

I agree that we need to do way better with our mental health but I would also add that we'd need a better background check system.

 

[SV Fan]

I'm just saying that if we really want to do something to try and stop these incidents from happening, then we need to focus much more on mental health than gun control.

But that would mean Big Government funding Healthcare and given how much Obamacare is hated on the right I think going even farther into government funded healthcare is a no go. lol

 

[Thundercrack85]

Really, these mass shootings make up a very small part of gun violence. When people quote those figures in the tens of thousands, that has very little to do with public mental health care.

However, with these mass shootings, it could make a big difference.

This case really shows how broken the system is.

 

[SV Fan]

Really, these mass shootings make up a very small part of gun violence. When people quote those figures in the tens of thousands, that has very little to do with public mental health care.

However, with these mass shootings, it could make a big difference.

This case really shows how broken the system is.

Actually a large portion of gun violence is suicides, so you could argue that falls under mental health

I forget the statistics but when they say 30k people a year die by gun violence, like 18k of that is suicide

 

[Thundercrack85]

I still find that an odd use of the word "violence". It also seems rather dishonest for the gun control crowd to use that number in their statistics.

That sounds about right. Two-thirds of gun deaths are suicide.

No one seems to give a damn about the suicides though. Or if they do, I've missed that part.

 

[SV Fan]

I still find that an odd use of the word "violence". It also seems rather dishonest for the gun control crowd to use that number in their statistics.

Personally I don't get why the pro gun side doesn't bring up the point more, but I am guessing if one is a politician who is pro gun but anti government spending they rather not talk about what needs to be done to fix that(ie it will take alot of government $$$$$$$$$$)

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, if the US had draconian, Australian style legislation on guns, then it's safe to say that number would decrease dramatically. But the majority of people who are determined enough to literally blow their own brains out, will find some way to kill themselves.

Look at the suicide rate in countries with strict gun laws...

Just imagine if Japan had "liberal" gun laws. Scary thought.

 

[Hotwire]

I know it's his right to do this and that he's not breaking any laws BUT, why in the Hell would you think this is a good idea?!?!?

Man Walking Around High School Carrying Guns

 

[dnno1]

I still find that an odd use of the word "violence". It also seems rather dishonest for the gun control crowd to use that number in their statistics.

That sounds about right. Two-thirds of gun deaths are suicide.

No one seems to give a damn about the suicides though. Or if they do, I've missed that part.

Personally I don't get why the pro gun side doesn't bring up the point more, but I am guessing if one is a politician who is pro gun but anti government spending they rather not talk about what needs to be done to fix that(ie it will take alot of government $$$$$$$$$$)

Suicide with a gun is considered violent because by definition, it uses physical force to cause harm to someone. To gloss it over by saying a self inflicted injury or death with a firearm is not violent is showing ignorance of the definition of the word and another way of attempting to spin the issue to make it look like guns are not dangerous.

 

[The Overlord]

But here is a good question, why does it seem like America has far more mass shootings then any other Western Democracy?

 

[dnno1]

But here is a good question, why does it seem like America has far more mass shootings then any other Western Democracy?

Because it's true.

 

[SV Fan]

Suicide with a gun is considered violent because by definition, it uses physical force to cause harm to someone. To gloss it over by saying a self inflicted injury or death with a firearm is not violent is showing ignorance of the definition of the word and another way of attempting to spin the issue to make it look like guns are not dangerous.

As Somebody who is all for gun reform, I do see a difference. Somebody committing suicide is basically not a menace to society(unless they go on a killing spree first). While I do think 12k is still way to many homicides, there is a huge difference between 30k and 12k

Personally I think both sides like the 30k number because for Pro Gun guys, 30k deaths sounds like alot and makes it easier to hawk guns and for the anti gun guys 30k sounds like alot and makes it easier to push your agenda.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Suicide with a gun is considered violent because by definition, it uses physical force to cause harm to someone. To gloss it over by saying a self inflicted injury or death with a firearm is not violent is showing ignorance of the definition of the word and another way of attempting to spin the issue to make it look like guns are not dangerous.

Then qualify it with self-inflicted. It's dishonest to put it in with murder and assault.

 

[dnno1]

Then qualify it with self-inflicted. It's dishonest to put it in with murder and assault.

Sure you could delineate that case, but it is would still be a violent death by a gun. Even if it is not considered an official crime, no one wants to see anybody committing suicide nor placing themselves or others in danger of shooting themselves by accident just as much as they don't want to see people murdering others with the same type of weapon. To write that off as a special case apart from a murder is just an attempt to desensitize the issue of gun violence.

 

[dnno1]

As Somebody who is all for gun reform, I do see a difference. Somebody committing suicide is basically not a menace to society(unless they go on a killing spree first). While I do think 12k is still way to many homicides, there is a huge difference between 30k and 12k

Personally I think both sides like the 30k number because for Pro Gun guys, 30k deaths sounds like alot and makes it easier to hawk guns and for the anti gun guys 30k sounds like alot and makes it easier to push your agenda.

Look, in a mental institution, providers are instructed by law to report any suspicion that a person might be a danger to themselves to the police or the department of health. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like they take those matter as seriously as they do regular crimes. In fact you don't get fined for not reporting crimes in progress so I guess you could say that reporting people as being a menace to themselves is more severe. That is why we should not discount the number of incidents where a person may commit suicide or accidentally kill themselves by a gun misfire. The issue here is gun safety as well as reducing gun crimes and gun deaths.