Discussion: The Tea Party

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AG1973 said:
I should have said a considerable portion of the TEA partys expansion is due to the complexion of the President. The extreme Palin McCain supporters needed a home they went to the TEA party.
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You could say the same about the new black voter demographic that voted for Obama and not McCain, and you might find that the percentages are similar.
 
Kel said:
Well, I don't necessarily fault the media for the amount of time they have given to this movement, it is a movement that has impacted an entire election, that is newsworthy IMO, whether you agree with them or not.

What I disagree with is the one-sided view that some media has placed on this movement.

I don't get my information on issues from the media, I research them myself.
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Dont get me wrong i research as well. Mostly for the reason I gave you. That the media is locke in a narritive heading into the election that I don't think is so much as telling the news but more like a story
.
 
Kel said:
You could say the same about the new black voter demographic that voted for Obama and not McCain, and you might find that the percentages are similar.
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Blacks vote democratic at around 80-85%. 80-85% of black voters voted democratic in the elections of Carter, Clinton, & Kerry. 85-90% of black voters voted for President Obama in the last election. I think Clinton got around 87% of the black vote.

Blacks now vote democrat because of Kennedy and LBJ. Blacks voted republican prior to them because of Lincoln. Because of the ideological shift that took place in the 60s blacks migrated to supporting democrats.

And the republican party today has a core that has its roots in southern Jim Crow democrats.

Yes more blacks voted for Obama than previous elections but more whites voted also and also consider that a lot of the new voters taht voted for McCain did so to vote AGAINST Obama.
 
chaseter said:
Exactly.

There will always be extreme member of any group, movement, or religion. That doesn't mean the entire group, movement, or religion is extreme. But, in politics you label the entire movement as one. Republicans calling all Democrats Socialists and Marxists is the same thing as Democrats calling Republicans Nazis and Racists.
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To be fair, though, being called a socialist or a marxist is not nearly as bad as being called a nazi or a racist. We treat the words "Socialist" and "Marxist" like they are as bad as calling a person a freaking pedophile, when really that's not the case. I never understood how someone of having a political ideology that diminishes economic liberty and property rights and ultimately does not work is comparable to someone who wants to conquer the world through violence and exterminate people on the basis of their ethnicity and skin color. In general it's stupid to assign a knee-jerk label to people, but I think that we as a culture need to take the "racist" and "nazi" labels much more seriously than we do, because we are forgetting what they actually mean.

Simply put, which is a worse insult-- being told that you'd be happy if no-one was allowed to make more than $15 an hour, or being told that you would be happy if everyone in Australia was killed by an asteroid?
 
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AG1973 said:
Blacks vote democratic at around 80-85%. 80-85% of black voters voted democratic in the elections of Carter, Clinton, & Kerry. 85-90% of black voters voted for President Obama in the last election. I think Clinton got around 87% of the black vote.

Blacks now vote democrat because of Kennedy and LBJ. Blacks voted republican prior to them because of Lincoln. Because of the ideological shift that took place in the 60s blacks migrated to supporting democrats.

And the republican party today has a core that has its roots in southern Jim Crow democrats.

Yes more blacks voted for Obama than previous elections but more whites voted also and also consider that a lot of the new voters taht voted for McCain did so to vote AGAINST Obama.
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Incorrect. Obama won 95% of the black vote. If you consider the Tea Party to largely be against a black man, what would you call a near 10% rise in black voters voting for a black man as opposed to the white men before him?
 
chaseter said:
Incorrect. Obama won 95% of the black vote. If you consider the Tea Party to largely be against a black man, what would you call a near 10% rise in black voters voting for a black man as opposed to the white men before him?
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Voter turnout went up about the same percentage across demographic lines. White voter turnout went up about 10% also. White people voted for President Obama also. The TEA party was in exsistence before President Obama won the election but the increase of TEA partiers is McCain Palin voters the energy Palin brought to the republican party directly related to the expansion of the TEA party. They were pissed because their candidate lost and the reason for that loss was Obama so their anger transfered to him. Those angry McCain Palin voters in a large part are members of the TEA party.
 
I thought you thought that it was racist? Nothing in your explanation included anything about racial motivations. You just said that the Tea Party's increase was due to anger over losing. Also...McCain has nothing to do with the Tea Party. Palin only has anything to do with the Tea Party because she gets paid to open her gaping maw.
 
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StorminNorman said:
A considerable? Define considerable.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/10/18/new-study-debunks-myth-about-racist-tea-partiers
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Wow, what an insanely stupid and ill-researched article. I suppose in his "study", which he provided no data for, nor did he disclose how he came to his assinine conclusion. Also, I must say the writer must have been laughing it up with his co-workers afterwards. Starting every paragraphy with "Ekin said" is hardly scientific or unbiased. It would be like me writing a paper which said "Optimus says Socrates drove a lexus, and when he asked aristotle, this was confirmed".

This was my favorite part "The elderly people were like you shouldn't do that (make racist/inflamatory signs) , you're making us all look bad. They were quick to call people out if there were signs that were counterproductive or unsophisticated."

So quick apparently that nearly any jacka** with a camera was able to capture them with the signs on film, repeatedly, at every rally they've held since they formed. Ya'know, isn't that the problem with sophisticated, civil discourse? Ya always have to remind people not to make racist signs with crazy bullsh** on them. And we know it's just that one guy over and over again, shame they can't ask those people to leave their rallies.

Furthermore, this was one student, at one rally, with one camera. I could go to a KKK meeting, take pictures, interview a small sampling of people, and come to the conclusion that they were simply not racist; that's the problem with small sample sizes and limited resources.
 
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You are right, it was one student, at one rally, with one camera. It should be noted, however, that I didn't link you to the report, but a news story about the report. It did explain how she came to her findings (she took pictures of all the signs at a typical Tea Party event and...then read them - it wasn't difficult). But that is significantly more data and research than anyone has spent "proving" the racism of the Tea Party.

When you then include the fact that there are several left groups dedicated to infiltrating and making the Tea Party look bad, the fact that Congressman LIED about being called the "n word" by Tea Parties, when you have people trying to state that it is definitively racist to use a "witchdoctor" image to insult a bad HEALTHCARE plan, etc. The left is trying to paint the Tea Party as racist because it's easy and convenient, not because it's truthful.

Quite frankly it's hard to respect the opinion of anyone who tries to claim that racism is the spine of the Tea Party.
 
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StorminNorman said:
You are right, it was one student, at one rally, with one camera. It should be noted, however, that I didn't link you to the report, but a news story about the report. It did explain how she came to her findings (she took pictures of all the signs at a typical Tea Party event and...then read them - it wasn't difficult). But that is significantly more data and research than anyone has spent "proving" the racism of the Tea Party.

When you then include the fact that there are several left groups dedicated to infiltrating and making the Tea Party look bad, the fact that Congressman LIED about being called the "n word" by Tea Parties, when you have people trying to state that it is definitively racist to use a "witchdoctor" image to insult a bad HEALTHCARE plan, etc. The left is trying to paint the Tea Party as racist because it's easy and convenient, not because it's truthful.

Quite frankly it's hard to respect the opinion of anyone who tries to claim that racism is the spine of the Tea Party.
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You're right, it's not difficult. It's also profoundly unscientific and insufficient to form any kind of conclusion at all.
 
And yet it is MORE scientific and MORE sufficient than any other study along these lines. It is the MOST scientific evaluation of the Tea Party to date.

Further, it supports every objective report of the Tea Party to date.

Additionally it supports my own experience as a libertarian who despises racism who has attended Tea Party events over the last two years.
 
Optimus_Prime_ said:
That's the same "study".
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Oh well then I posted it from a more 'reputable' source:o:cwink::woot:

Optimus_Prime_ said:
You're right, it's not difficult. It's also profoundly unscientific and insufficient to form any kind of conclusion at all.
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It's better than Keith Olbermann, Ed Shultz, or the NAACP telling you that they are a bunch of racists.
 
StorminNorman said:
And yet it is MORE scientific and MORE sufficient than any other study along these lines. It is the MOST scientific evaluation of the Tea Party to date.
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This claim is dubious at best, nor does it prove anything.
Further, it supports every objective report of the Tea Party to date.
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Polling date on the Tea Party hasn't suggested much of anything, outside of showing that they don't have very many non-whites represented at their rallies, and that their movement is nearly 50% 55+. Racism can't be concluded from any such data. The KKK had many, many affluent and educated followers, despite the stereotype that they were all dumb rednecks. Again, this itself is not proof of racism, it's simply just not proof of anything.

However, studies done do show they believe many of the odd talking points such as birther claims and that Obama himself is racist (as high as 60%).
Additionally it supports my own experience as a libertarian who despises racism who has attended Tea Party events over the last two years.
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That proves buttkiss. Additionally, not to pick on you, but despising racism and being racist are again two different things. Not saying you are, but again, that proves very little.
 
Because a statement based on fair evaluation is obviously equal to propaganda based on political bias :up:
 
Optimus_Prime_ said:
This claim is dubious at best, nor does it prove anything.

Polling date on the Tea Party hasn't suggested much of anything, outside of showing that they don't have very many non-whites represented at their rallies, and that their movement is nearly 50% 55+. Racism can't be concluded from any such data. The KKK had many, many affluent and educated followers, despite the stereotype that they were all dumb rednecks. Again, this itself is not proof of racism, it's simply just not proof of anything.

However, studies done do show they believe many of the odd talking points such as birther claims and that Obama himself is racist (as high as 60%).

That proves buttkiss. Additionally, not to pick on you, but despising racism and being racist are again two different things. Not saying you are, but again, that proves very little.
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I didn't see many non-blacks at Reverend Sharpton's rally.....does that make him racist?

Being a birther doesn't make you racist, it just makes you stupid...
 
Kel said:
I didn't see many non-blacks at Reverend Sharpton's rally.....does that make him racist?
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There are a lot of other contributing factors to the accusations of racism surrounding the Tea Party.
Being a birther doesn't make you racist, it just makes you stupid...
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Well, yes, I would actually agree with you. By the same token though the tendency to be more suspicious of one individual than another can certainly have to do with racism. Racism isn't really something you can poll easily, because most people are going to straight up deny racism.
 
chaseter said:
Yes, yes it really is.
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No it isn't. It's a very poorly done and limited "study", in fact, it doesn't even qualify as a "study". It may seem better to you, perhaps because you agree with the result, but the in the end it's just the same as the others you don't agree with. I'm not calling Ekins and liar, anymore than Shultz or Olbermann (whom I don't watch), they may believe what they write but their methods are equally bullsh**.
 
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imdaly said:
Let's hear 'em.
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Well, for starters, the University of Washington conducted a study through their "Race and Sexuality" department determined race as a motivating factor for Tea Party advocates. The statement "If blacks would only try harder they'd be as well off as whites" was agreed by 73% of Tea Party members, as opposed to 33% of those who identified as non-members. The white members also felt their "status was diminished by rising numbers of ethnic minorities" (56%) http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/25/are-tea-partiers-racist.html

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/pollster-responds-to-your-questions.html

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-g...-tea-partiers-have-more-racist-attitudes.html
 
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