Discussion: The Tea Party

[Doomed_hero]

This is my main problem with the tea party movement to bring the subject back. This does not extend to all members since I do belive there is smart members of the movement, bu to often therepersntatives view there opinion as gospel and all else as wrong and with no merit.

 

[StorminNorman]

We are a nation founded on opions. Its not like the Founding Fathers where raised by god as one mind to find a country in one mind and put it in stone. It was a group of individuals that disaggreed cause they had different opioins on what was best for the country. These opioins led to the party systems. The fact that the framers reconized these opioins and had the constitution as a living document is there greatest legacy imo.

We are a nation founded upon IDEAS, not opinion. Ideas can be tested and proven valid or invalid. Socialism isn't inferior to Capitalism because I think it is, but because socialism is based off the notion that markets are man made, not naturally occurring and, as such, can be manipulated for certain ends.

Ever idea has a philosophical background, the sounder the philosophy, the sounder the idea.

P.S. the Constitution isn't a living document. It's an amendable document.

uhhhhhh...wait what?

The opinion you have of Cash for Clunkers doesn't change the fact it cost tax payers 26,000 dollars per ever new car sold. Your opinion of the IRS doesn't change the fact it's one of the greatest burdens on the economy. Your opinion of the Iraq War doesn't make it a good use of American resources.

Politics exists because of opinions, Norman. Conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Democrats, Republicans, have different opinions.

And you're not God, so your statements are opinions, whether you like it or not.

Political debate exists because of different opinions, that doesn't mean that all are equal.

The opinion of a Keynesian economist is not equal to than of an Austrian economist. The reason? Austrians predicted the 2008 Housing Crisis while the Keynesians advocated the policy that caused it.

Apparently you don't have the talent of knowing sarcasm.

I do, you just don't recognize tongue-in-cheek.

When a person starts thinking his opinion is better than everyone elses....he has stopped thinking.

Guess what, I hold the opinion of a doctor in regards to a proper course of treatment higher than I do a mechanic. I place a higher value on the opinion of Ron Paul than that of Sarah Palin.

 

[luke1234]

This is my main problem with the tea party movement to bring the subject back. This does not extend to all members since I do belive there is smart members of the movement, bu to often therepersntatives view there opinion as gospel and all else as wrong and with no merit.

pretty much..., this party already has a foot out the door.

 

[C. Lee]

I do, you just don't recognize tongue-in-cheek.

Oh...that was your tongue in your cheek....I thought it was your foot in your mouth.

 

[Doomed_hero]

Opinion and ideas isa thin line. You can test an opinion just as easy such a sslavery which was both a opinion and a idea that most founders held onto. And the constitution is a lkivng dcument cause you can amend and change it over time. It is not perfect and thats my opinion as well. Beliefs behind a idea can be misplaces and proven wrong, but that does not man he opinion will not stand.

 

[luke1234]

The opinion you have of Cash for Clunkers doesn't change the fact it cost tax payers 26,000 dollars per ever new car sold. Your opinion of the IRS doesn't change the fact it's one of the greatest burdens on the economy. Your opinion of the Iraq War doesn't make it a good use of American resources.

oh not my opinion, hell im just an art student. I got no say. But there are opinions out there that matter.

 

[StorminNorman]

Oh...that was your tongue in your cheek....I thought it was your foot in your mouth.

oh not my opinion, hell im just an art student. I got no say. But there are opinions out there that matter.

The opinion of Obama doesn't change the consequences of his actions.

 

[luke1234]

The opinion of Obama doesn't change the consequences of his actions.

No, but they do decide his actions, which indirectly have an affect on "consequences".

 

[chaseter]

Chase

 

[Kelly]

No, but they do decide his actions, which indirectly have an affect on "consequences".

Not necessarily, I do no think that Obama ANYWHERE near agreed with the extension of the Bush tax cuts....his opinion was DO NOT EXTEND TAX CUTS for those making 250,000 or more a year....his opinion is that is where the rich begin....that is his opinion.....BUT as President he has to IN MANY CASES compromise against his opinion to get other things done....that is what happened in this case. So, no they do not necessarily decide his actions...

 

[Schlosser85]

Everyone has to compromise their beliefs to get things done in Washington. It's the way it rolls.

 

[Kelly]

I agree.....

I do not believe the Tea Party as a movement believes that...

 

[StorminNorman]

Compromise is a sucker move though.

If you are right, then any move to compromise just makes you increasingly more wrong.

Politicians compromise for short term gain when such compromises typically have long term costs.

A great example is the 2010 Tax Cut deal. Republicans, instead of creating a piece of legislation that could create jobs by giving a payroll tax cut to employers, compromised for a bill that has corrupt corn ethanol subsidies and a tax cut that won't create jobs.

Again, you have to be right for it to work, but by keeping your ground you become a leader.

Ron Paul has more influence on the Tea Party than any Republican politician because of his unwillingness to compromise.

 

[AG1973]

Compromise is a sucker move though.

Ron Paul has more influence on the Tea Party than any Republican politician because of his unwillingness to compromise.

That's what makes him dangerous he and his son. One cannot be beholden to an ideology so staunchly that they will not compromise and not be willing to see reason, it makes them dangerous not leaders.

Timothy McVeigh was an individual that was unwilling to tolerate, accept any view but his own; or one that he agreed with. He was a murderer not a leader.

I good leader is willing to see the point of view of his adversary. He does not have to agree with it but he should not dismiss it.

 

[chaseter]

But then Norman you must greatly admire Obama and the Democrats for being fierce on not wanting to compromise.

 

[StorminNorman]

I wouldn't necessarily describe Obama or the majority of Democrats as "fierce on not wanting to compromise", but yes - I think a Progressive that votes like a Progressive is more respectable than a Progressive who compromises. It's better for voters, political discourse and the quality of government.

 

[StorminNorman]

That's what makes him dangerous he and his son. One cannot be beholden to an ideology so staunchly that they will not compromise and not be willing to see reason, it makes them dangerous not leaders.

Timothy McVeigh was an individual that was unwilling to tolerate, accept any view but his own; or one that he agreed with. He was a murderer not a leader.

I good leader is willing to see the point of view of his adversary. He does not have to agree with it but he should not dismiss it.

Yup, all opinions are definitely equal.

 

[BlackLantern]

I good leader is willing to see the point of view of his adversary. He does not have to agree with it but he should not dismiss it.

yup

 

[Marx]

Quite frankly, my content speaks for itself.

What content exactly? You've become a person who changes their viewpoint depending on whoever you're talking to at the time. You've become alot like John McCain, but you're far less entertaining.

Oy, I'm gonna keep this short and sweet. Get over yourself.

Norm, I'm saying this as someone who has a level of respect for you....your egomania is getting really tiresome and obnoxious to just about everyone here.

As Matt and Schloss have both said, you really need to get over yourself Norm. It's really off putting. You are so much better than what you have chosen to become in the last few months.

All anyone has to do to shut me up is prove me wrong.

But the only ones that even attempt are dnno, Crowe, Youk and the occasional Chase or BL bit. Of those only Crowe actually engages on a scholarly level.

That's because talking to you has become the equivilant to pounding one's head off of a wall. You're not respectful towards anyone's opinion and hold your own as divine law. There's no point in trying to debate you. Its become easier to just ignore you (which is what people are doing, thus no one attempting).

Matt has hit this right on the head. I always enjoyed debating you. Hell, I even joined your republican presidential ticket when we held the Hype Presidential Election because I thought so much of you and how you handled yourself on this forum. You were what a political poster should be...sadly, that is not the case now. There's no point in trying to debate you anymore because of exactly what Matt described above.

The only thing you're succeeding in is making yourself completely irrelevent...and that is a downright shame.

 

[StorminNorman]

What content exactly? You've become a person who changes their viewpoint depending on whoever you're talking to at the time. You've become alot like John McCain, but you're far less entertaining.

You can't defend that comment. In fact it pretty much contradicts the complaints everyone else seems to be having.

Matt has hit this right on the head. I always enjoyed debating you. Hell, I even joined your republican presidential ticket when we held the Hype Presidential Election because I thought so much of you and how you handled yourself on this forum. You were what a political poster should be...sadly, that is not the case now. There's no point in trying to debate you anymore because of exactly what Matt described above.

There's no point in debating me because I actually talk about substance and not fluff. You haven't shown any interest in discussing historical perspective, economic theory or political philosophy. You have done a great job, however, at keeping us up to date on the happenings of Sarah Palin.

The only thing you're succeeding in is making yourself completely irrelevent...and that is a downright shame.

The irony is that if who I am now is making me irrelevant to the political discussion on a political forum, my level of influence in real life has been growing exponentially.

 

[Marx]

You can't defend that comment. In fact it pretty much contradicts the complaints everyone else seems to be having.

Yes I can. All anyone has to do is look over your post history. I wonder if you even have an opinion of your own anymore. You say whatever will get you the most reaction from people...no matter how absolutely ridiculous.

There's no point in debating me because I actually talk about substance and not fluff. You haven't shown any interest in discussing historical perspective, economic theory or political philosophy. You have done a great job, however, at keeping us up to date on the happenings of Sarah Palin.

As C said, you're a really funny guy Norm.

The irony is that if who I am now is making me irrelevant to the political discussion on a political forum, my level of influence in real life has been growing exponentially.

I very highly doubt that.

 

[Kelly]

Ok guys....uuummm..... I think this is partially my fault because I made a statement towards Norman on the forum. I probably should not have done that, it should have been done in PM.

I do not like a poster being cornered in this manner ON THE FORUM, so all discussion of this needs to be done in PMs....from this point on.

Let's get back to the discussion of the Tea Party which is what this thread is about....

 

[Marx]

I haven't seen anything lately about the Tea Party. (Aside from an overwhelming majority of voters regretting their decision to vote for Sharron Angle.)

I agree though, let's get back to the topic of the thread.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Has Joe Miller consented the election to Lisa Murkowski yet?

 

[Marx]

Has Joe Miller consented the election to Lisa Murkowski yet?

I believe so...