Discussion: Voting Rights and Election Law

[LTuser]

Okay. 10 prosecuted cases in the entire United States. Think about that real hard. In a country with more than three-hundred million people, they have only ever prosecuted ten people.

In the state of Pennsylvania, the people who got the bill passed couldn't even present a single case of in-person voter impersonation. Couldn't find evidence for an instance of such fraud.

Thunder. How many THOUSANDS of people did we see in all those mass riots all over the place early last year/late in 2016?
Compare that to how FEW actually got arrested?? AND HOW even Fewer of that, actually got charged and convicted..
Would you then say "Na rioting is not an issue, just look at how few of a # of people who have been convicted for it there are"???

And there are exactly ten verified cases of that actually being a problem in the last twelve years.

Ten people that got caught. There could be countless numbers that weren't.

More like, 10 people out of all those who WERE caught, who actually got punished..

Just like i mentioned above to Thunder. If you say, have 50,000 people who commit the crime, but the cops only arrest 5,000 of them. AND OF THAT 5,000, only 50 actually get charged.. MOST people will say "GEE< only 50 got charged with violating XYZ law? Must not be as much of a problem as people say it is"..

We're talking about in-person voter fraud. The fraud you just cited was done through absentee ballots, which a standardized photo ID would never be able to prevent (and isn't designed to prevent).

So a thousand people could each vote 20 times, illegally via absentee ballots, but as long as no one did an IN-PERSON fraud, you won't say there is such a thing as fraud??

But you could fix that buy keeping the voter roster up to date and doing so wouldn't obstruct thousands and thousands of poor people from voting this year.

Several states TRIED. AND got sued by the ACLU (and other liberal groups) to STOP purging the rolls.

That has nothing to do with having to show ID in the polling place. That addressed absentee ballots, which the state of Alabama laws do not address.

BUt is not what that democrat did, STILL VOTING fraud??


Well, i am all caught up to the end of page 11.. Will get page 12 to 21 done tomorrow..

 

[SV Fan]

Thunder. How many THOUSANDS of people did we see in all those mass riots all over the place early last year/late in 2016?
Compare that to how FEW actually got arrested?? AND HOW even Fewer of that, actually got charged and convicted..
Would you then say "Na rioting is not an issue, just look at how few of a # of people who have been convicted for it there are"???

I can't give you exact numbers but I am guessing it's a high percentage then 10 in billions of votes

 

[Lighthouse]

Thunder. How many THOUSANDS of people did we see in all those mass riots all over the place early last year/late in 2016?
Compare that to how FEW actually got arrested?? AND HOW even Fewer of that, actually got charged and convicted..
Would you then say "Na rioting is not an issue, just look at how few of a # of people who have been convicted for it there are"???



More like, 10 people out of all those who WERE caught, who actually got punished..

Just like i mentioned above to Thunder. If you say, have 50,000 people who commit the crime, but the cops only arrest 5,000 of them. AND OF THAT 5,000, only 50 actually get charged.. MOST people will say "GEE< only 50 got charged with violating XYZ law? Must not be as much of a problem as people say it is"..



So a thousand people could each vote 20 times, illegally via absentee ballots, but as long as no one did an IN-PERSON fraud, you won't say there is such a thing as fraud??



Several states TRIED. AND got sued by the ACLU (and other liberal groups) to STOP purging the rolls.



BUt is not what that democrat did, STILL VOTING fraud??


Well, i am all caught up to the end of page 11.. Will get page 12 to 21 done tomorrow..

This is one of the worst analogies I've ever seen.

 

[Venom 1988]

What, you automatically assume a newbie is a fake account from someone who got banned?? MY How welcoming..

You join a Comics forum and the first place you decide to post is the Politics board.

 

[Kelly]

What, you automatically assume a newbie is a fake account from someone who got banned?? MY How welcoming..

It is extremely unusual for someone to come on to a site called Superherohype, and go to the Political Forum as their first place to visit. Pretty much 100% of those who have done just that....were previously banned users.

 

[LTuser]

It is extremely unusual for someone to come on to a site called Superherohype, and go to the Political Forum as their first place to visit. Pretty much 100% of those who have done just that....were previously banned users.

Tht can be understood then. BUT i initially joined this site, after being booted from gateworld, i was missing my fix of talking about shield/arrow/flash.. BUT when i saw this had a thriving politics area, i just had to jump in, feet first.

 

[LTuser]

Well, onto my big lot of pages catch up (going from page 12 to 21!)..

but they still do not want a mandatory showing of an ID. YET, they have not yelled about schools requiring the parents to show ID.....hmmmm....weird.

Or of requiring people to show ID, to get into many DNC rallies..

Because voting is a right guaranteed to us in our constitution, and it is guaranteed to us without exception. We shouldn't need identification to enjoy one of our most fundamental rights as Americans.

As i mentioned before though.. MANY on the left, have no issue with restricting Other rights, especially gun ownership, via requiring invasive backround checks, ID requirements etc..
SO WHY should voting be any different?

If people tried to vote illegally by impersonating someone else they'd be caught frequently.

Which is probably why no one does it and it should be a non-issue.

If i am not checking IDs or other means to verify you are who you say, HOW THEN are they going to be caught frequently??

Plus I always thought right-wingers were against a national ID.

And how is wanting valid photo ID for voting, wanting a national ID?

You can't vote twice. When I go to vote, and I give them my name, they mark me off of a list indicating that I have voted.

Does another voting place, get instantly updated, that you voted somewhere else?? If not, what's stopping you voting in two different places?

You can't vote in a different state, because you are not registered to vote in that state.

You can, if you are still registered in both states.. Why do you think a # of states back in 2016, tried to CLEAR up their voter rolls of people who moved out, and got registered in another state??

A deceased person can't vote, because they would be legally deceased, thus not on the list of eligible voters.

You sure of that??
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...g-Island-Nassau-County-Newsday-230030371.html

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/24/greg-abbott/greg-abbott-dead-voters-Texas/

https://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote

And that's just three sites. Certainly shows to me, dead people are still on voter rolls and, thus can have someone vote in their name...

Because it's Republicans doing what Republicans do best - trying to change the rules anytime there is a Democrat in the oval office.

And you don't think the dems do that too?

I know you cannot be arrested for lack of ID. You can, however, be detained. If your suggestion becomes law, what's to stop such detentions from becoming arrests, or at the very least, protracted detentions.

To me, since most people i see, getting 'detained for questioning' by cops (even if its just being pulled out of your car) get 'cuffed' just for the cops safety as is.... So they are in effect, one and the same.

A couple of comments on this. There are states that will not accept student ID's and rightfully so. Many students are either foreigners or U.S. citizens who are out-of-state/temporary residents. This is why the student ID is not really valid.

And with the # of states, that now allow or have pushed the ability, for illegal aliens to get drivers licenses, to ME that shows, a DL should not be considered acceptable..
BUT that's me.

The last sentence caught me. If we all had to show a photo ID to vote, how would a mailed in absentee ballot work?

To ME, it should make those who wish to do abesentee ballots, have to show some other means of verifing they are 'who they say they are'..

How funny is it that it was a Republican who got busted for doing what the Republicans were trying to prevent?!?!

Yup. Which is why when i heard about it (as posted on another site), i commented that i hope they throw the book at him!

Racially insensitive to who?

An Uncle Tom is a black person who either dislikes or hurts blacks in general in favor of whites in general.

Are you saying such people don't exist or that they do exist but they shouldn't be labeled?

I think its more that he finds it hypocritical that the media shows no (or little) outrage when a black person calls another black a racist name, but will get all frothy in the mouth when a white person does it, even unintentionally.. Like that one college professor who said '*****rdly' in relation to someone's question in an economics class (iirc)..

Well, upto the end of page 15.. more to come.

 

[Kelly]

Just a bit of advice...people will not read long dissected posts....they usually just tune them out.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Just a bit of advice...people will not read long dissected posts....they usually just tune them out.

Pretty much.

Especially when taken to this extreme.

 

[LTuser]

Doesn't matter if it's dumb. I've heard that something like 11% of this country gets by without ID. Seems stupid to me to inconvenience all these people in order to prevent voter fraud that can't be proven to exist.

With how much in society needs you to have an ID to do, such as banking, pharmacies, hospitals etc, i find it HARD To believe its actually that many people who 'say they can get by' without one..

So now the argument against this is to prevent future hypothetical scenarios that aren't going to happen anyway? People aren't going to suddenly be turned away from polls. Seriously this is getting into "Reductio ad absurdum" territory.

It seems to be how things are in society (IMO) these days.. Put restrictive laws in place, just to prevent the POSSIBILITY of XYZ happening... Such as all those liberal schools who put 'free speech zones' on campus, just to prevent the possibility of someone saying things elsewhere, that MIGHT offend someone else...

On that we most definitely agree. It is unbelievable to me that ALL of these judges seem to interpret the law based along partisan lines. 5-4 seems to be the rule.

That's imo why i feel those on the SCOUTS not be given life time appointments. Cause to ME, it is nothing but being partisan these days.. Whether in favor of liberals (5 to 4), or conservatives (when they are in the majority there)..

Personally I think they should divide the US into 9 (equally populated) regions and let the people vote for Supreme Court judge likes every 4 years. If they going to judge based on opinions let the people pick whose opinion they want.

I could be down with that. just as long as they get term limits!

Yes, student IDs were unacceptable, but NRA membership cards, a-okay. Nah, nothing fishy about that.

That's just flat out stupid, not just fishy.. Since i can get NRA Membership and not even be a US citizen..

The simple fact is that the people most likely to vote Democrat (college students, the urban poor, etc) are the least likely to have the photo ID a lot of these laws require (and they make sure the ones they do have are invalid).

But that makes no sense to me. To become a college student, one must have a valid ID (or so i thought).. And for 'urban poor' one also needs one, to get on the welfare rolls.. Ergo shouldn't they already have one??

And it's not like the former Jim Crow States are exclusively doing it. Even blue states like Connecticut and Delaware have some form of voter ID laws.

I live in Ohio, and they have voter ID laws..

I certainly agree with you that the Democrats do nothing for the black community. And it's sickening how they treat black voters, even more sickening than how the GOP treats them. But I certainly don't blame black voters for not wanting to vote Republican.

Which always makes me wonder, why blacks as a whole, vote democrat..

Let's stop pretending that this is anything other than a pathetic attempt to suppress votes.

Thunder. SINCE anyone in the world can be at that school, from foreigners, to illegal aliens. HOW would you then, vet the ID's as being from someone who legally has the right TO vote??

Now if they don't have a proper Birth Certificate, they will have to go out and get one(which costs money for the certificate, not to mention the costs of getting around to get that certificate)..

And my question would be, WHY DON'T tey have their proper birth certificate??

Well.. Done for up to page 21. Will get the rest of this thread tomorrow.. Then off to another thread to do this too...
PEACE OUT!

 

[LTuser]

Pretty much.

Especially when taken to this extreme.

So IYO, how many pages back in a discussion, should someone new here, go through? 5? 10?

 

[Venom 1988]

If its the last few days sure. But if your replying to posts from over 5 years ago expecting a serious reply...you're either trolling or delirious.

 

[LTuser]

Normally when i get to a new site, i go back at least a year in back posts, to bring up.. Rather do that than start a new one on the same subject.
as for when i do open an old thread up, i prefer to go through its entireity if its say 30 or less pages (at 10 posts a page)..

This site seems to be set p for 15 posts a page. So maybe yes, i might have overdone it.. That said, i've gone back through six months of stuff on the politics area, and the stuff i've commented on, are all i am going to do..

WAY Too much to do otherwise..

 

[Kelly]

Normally when i get to a new site, i go back at least a year in back posts, to bring up.. Rather do that than start a new one on the same subject.
as for when i do open an old thread up, i prefer to go through its entireity if its say 30 or less pages (at 10 posts a page)..

This site seems to be set p for 15 posts a page. So maybe yes, i might have overdone it.. That said, i've gone back through six months of stuff on the politics area, and the stuff i've commented on, are all i am going to do..

WAY Too much to do otherwise..

The problem is, when you go back so far, you are probably replying to people that don't post here anymore....so I would say, maybe back a month or so would be discussions that people are still discussing, any longer back than that, those discussions have been had and we've moved on.

 

[LTuser]

Rodger that.. Will limit myself to 1 month or newer...

 

[LTuser]

Just saw this, about the center for american progressiveness, wanting to RESTRICT the right for overseas stationed members of the military to vote, via electronic means..

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/13/liberal-group-restrict-overseas-military-voting/

If this is all for cybersecurity, why not make it for ALL VOTING done electronically.. Not just for our military?

 

[Kelly]

Infrastructure is far different throughout the world, I don't blame them. If it was the only means by which they could vote, that would be different.

 

[Sithborg]

I would take things from that source with a few grains of salt.

I think you may also be misunderstanding what voting electronically means, as I am sure that is different overseas than it is here.

 

[LTuser]

Infrastructure is far different throughout the world, I don't blame them. If it was the only means by which they could vote, that would be different.

My gripe is we are always hearing how 'bad/wrong/evil it is' to do anything tha may restrict voting.. YET HEre is a liberal think tank like group, doing just that..

 

[Kelly]

Well, actually that "liberal think tank group" can't do anything, they are doing what they do.....talking about it.

And it wouldn't restrict the voting of these soldiers, they have been voting for decades without the internet and will continue to do so. So, sorry, I don't see your gripe...as I stated above, if it were the only way they could vote, I would see your point, but it isn't even the main way they vote, and it isn't even a worldwide means of voting for our soldiers.

Are their motives wrong for wanting to do what they are talking about? sure, probably.....so? that is an argument for a good portion of politicians, think tanks, etc....on both sides. It's one of those things for me, it is just another example of two sides of the same coin. It's politics, but it doesn't make one more wrong than the other, just makes both wrong. That's politics.......

 

[Sithborg]

So, Kris Kobach has a real swell legal team trying to defend Kansas' voter law.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/kobach-judge-lecture-trial-procedure

That is a real Trump level legal team.

 

[LTuser]

Wow. What a dunce. How did that idiot become a lawyer?

 

[Hypestyle]

another reason why I don't respect voter ID laws..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...nity-on-election-day?utm_campaign=sharebutton

The 1920 massacre in Ocoee, Florida, involved whites lynching, castrating, and removing hundreds of blacks from their land in retaliation for them trying to exercise their right to vote.


Election Day 1920 gave us one of the most violent, horrific stories in the history of American democracy. And unfortunately, despite the lives lost and the unimaginable racism that precipitated the carnage, it's a tale that has largely been left untold.

It all happened in Ocoee, Florida, on November 2, when wealthy, landowning blacks within the rural community wanted to cast their ballots in the election between Warren G. Harding and James M. Cox. The violence began with a white lynch mob hanging one black man, and it culminated with an even larger mob terrorizing and torching the homes of an entire community of blacks. In the end, some historians estimate that as many as 500 blacks were forced from their homes. These people ran for their lives after being given an ultimatum: die or flee. Today, this bloody snapshot of American history is referred to as the Ocoee Massacre.

The 1920 election was special because it was the first time women were enfranchised to vote. Black women's organizations were mobilizing all over the country, according to Paul Ortiz PhD, director of the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program at the University of Florida. African American servicemen also had a strong case for wanting to vote, having served valiantly for this nation in World War I. Not only in Ocoee, but other parts of Florida stood to gain a great deal from having an influx of black votes, because those citizens could elect representatives who would address the many ways the state had lagged in social indicators such as schools and roads.

 

[Sithborg]

And the federal courts and Supreme Court reject attempts to stay PA's new electoral map.

 

[LTuser]

another reason why I don't respect voter ID laws..

So cause something bad happened almost 100 years back, you don't think we should EVER require voter ID laws??