Divergent

[ComicChick]

I know I keep saying it but I think it bares repeating, I sure hope a studio (lets be honest it's Marvel) get off their asses and make a Superhero movie starring a woman that's actually respectable because if they treat it like a real film I see no reason why it couldn't be a hit.

if they were smart, they'd bank off ScarJo and do a Black Widow solo film or Black Widow/SHIELD or Black Widow/Hawkeye one. Maybe Budapest lol

 

[ComicChick]

Right now is there even a show in TV with a female in an action lead role? I watch Lost Girl on SyFy because it has kind of a Buffy vibe.

The Blacklist?

 

[CB Fan]

if they were smart, they'd bank off ScarJo and do a Black Widow solo film or Black Widow/SHIELD or Black Widow/Hawkeye one. Maybe Budapest lol

Hawkeye can feature in a Black Widow film but I think she more than deserves her own headlining film.

I just saw Divergent and here are a few thoughts:

A better director/script could have really made this film shine. I would give it a 2.5/5, hopefully they make some improvements with the next film.

I've seen Miles Teller in a few things even his acclaimed 'Spectacular Now' and I'm not impressed. He must have connections high up cause his acting is mediocre.

This film has very little in common with Hunger Games so I'm not sure why the comparison is there. It's a very lazy comparison, IMO.

I'm sure I have more to say on the film but overall it was alright. If you're on the fence with it I say wait for rental.

 

[DrCosmic]

I really enjoyed this movie. One thing I thought was totally fresh was the

Spoiler

mother-daughter teamup.

I've never seen anything quite like that vibe. I was also a little amazed how utterly AWESOME Dauntless was compared to the other factions. I think the movie would have been stronger and the world fuller if there had been some reason to admire the other factions as opposed to them being purely exposition. Contrast District 11, or Districts 1 and 2 from Hunger Games. You may not like them, but you had to respect them.

Also, I kept telling my friends that Abnegation should call Olivia Pope to 'handle it.' It was funny the first couple times.

Anyway, there were a lot of narrative weaknesses in this film, it didn't bring you along very well. The story on the whole was pretty decent, but I think it could have been polished some more. I really liked the performances though, even Teller's, as thin as it was.

This film has very little in common with Hunger Games so I'm not sure why the comparison is there. It's a very lazy comparison, IMO.

Yeah, it's just your average YA book adaptation with a young female learning to fight while coming of age in a dystopian society ruled by people that want her dead that divides people into cookie cutter groups who are defeated because the girl who sucks at making friends finally learns to make some and thereby starts a revolutionary war. It's not like Divergent had a love traingle or bows and arrows, so what's the comparison?

So, now can we stop with that whole "female superhero movies won't sell" nonsense that some people keep pushing? If this movie, which got mixed reviews and a rather poor marketing campaign, still did well, then that excuse is shot full of yet more holes (and 2013 already turned it into Swiss cheese).

Katniss and Tris aren't superheroes. That's the issue. Beloved female action heroes like Katniss and Tris and Sarah Connor and Ripley spend most of their time running for their lives, getting saved and defeating the final challenge through resourcefulness because they're the last person standing. This doesn't mean they're not strong, but they are the complete opposite of virtually every superhero trope. Superhero-like heroines like Ultraviolet, Alice from RE and Selene from Underworld simply don't sell as well. They don't connect with audiences the same way non-superheroic action females do.

Now you can call that an excuse, but if they make a female superhero movie that has the things these successful female actioners have in common we'd call that a big difference, so I think that makes it a significant issue and not just an excuse.

 

[CB Fan]

Yeah, it's just your average YA book adaptation with a young female learning to fight while coming of age in a dystopian society ruled by people that want her dead that divides people into cookie cutter groups who are defeated because the girl who sucks at making friends finally learns to make some and thereby starts a revolutionary war. It's not like Divergent had a love traingle or bows and arrows, so what's the comparison?

(Sigh) Perhaps I'm just so unimpressed that I don't like even the slightest suggestion that this is similar to the far superior 'Hunger Games'. There are similarities but this is definitely its own thing. The themes of the two books and movies are very different Hunger Games deals with overcoming oppression from government and Divergent is about not having to conform to what people expect you to be.

 

[Loki882]

I really enjoyed this movie. One thing I thought was totally fresh was the

Spoiler

mother-daughter teamup.

I've never seen anything quite like that vibe. I was also a little amazed how utterly AWESOME Dauntless was compared to the other factions. I think the movie would have been stronger and the world fuller if there had been some reason to admire the other factions as opposed to them being purely exposition. Contrast District 11, or Districts 1 and 2 from Hunger Games. You may not like them, but you had to respect them.

Also, I kept telling my friends that Abnegation should call Olivia Pope to 'handle it.' It was funny the first couple times.

Anyway, there were a lot of narrative weaknesses in this film, it didn't bring you along very well. The story on the whole was pretty decent, but I think it could have been polished some more. I really liked the performances though, even Teller's, as thin as it was.



Yeah, it's just your average YA book adaptation with a young female learning to fight while coming of age in a dystopian society ruled by people that want her dead that divides people into cookie cutter groups who are defeated because the girl who sucks at making friends finally learns to make some and thereby starts a revolutionary war. It's not like Divergent had a love traingle or bows and arrows, so what's the comparison?



Katniss and Tris aren't superheroes. That's the issue. Beloved female action heroes like Katniss and Tris and Sarah Connor and Ripley spend most of their time running for their lives, getting saved and defeating the final challenge through resourcefulness because they're the last person standing. This doesn't mean they're not strong, but they are the complete opposite of virtually every superhero trope. Superhero-like heroines like Ultraviolet, Alice from RE and Selene from Underworld simply don't sell as well. They don't connect with audiences the same way non-superheroic action females do.

Now you can call that an excuse, but if they make a female superhero movie that has the things these successful female actioners have in common we'd call that a big difference, so I think that makes it a significant issue and not just an excuse.

No, it's an excuse. You keep saying that, but you still lack actual evidence to back it up. First of all, Selene is a popular enough character to get three movies starring her (not counting the prequel) so brining her up doesn't work. RE has gotten five movies, with a sixth one coming soon. And even if I were to except that you're right about those movies, the simple fact is that they're not very goo movies in general. I'm sorry, but the argument that a female superhero movie has to have characters act like Tris, or Katniss, or Ripley just isn't convincing. You've got nothing to support that argument, sorry but you just don't. Those movies succeeded because the characters were well written and the story was engaging and interesting, and they were marketed well. A female superhero movie would be no different. Point out the actually evidence that THG, Alien, Divergent, etc succeeded BECAUSE the leads acted the way that you describe them, that that's the main reason and not because the movies were good and the characters interesting. You can't do that, so your argument fails, it's that simple.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Right now is there even a show in TV with a female in an action lead role? I watch Lost Girl on SyFy because it has kind of a Buffy vibe.

Ones I watch(ed) in recent times:

Continuum. This show is basically the new Fringe for me.

Nikita recently aired its final episode.

Animated:

Legend of Korra. Probably some other cartoons out there I don't even pay attention to.

Shows that aren't that much defined by their action component:

Keri Russell's character occasionally has to do some action in The Americans.

Ditto for Tatiana Maslany's characters in Orphan Black.

 

[DA_Champion]

Guys,

Pleaae don't diss the underworld movies.

Thank you.

 

[Teelie]

Right now is there even a show in TV with a female in an action lead role? I watch Lost Girl on SyFy because it has kind of a Buffy vibe.

Orphan Black. It's off right now but it's back on in a month.

The Blacklist?

Ones I watch(ed) in recent times:
Continuum. This show is basically the new Fringe for me.
Nikita recently aired its final episode.
Animated:
Legend of Korra. Probably some other cartoons out there I don't even pay attention to.
Shows that aren't that much defined by their action component:
Keri Russell's character occasionally has to do some action in The Americans.
Ditto for Tatiana Maslany's characters in Orphan Black.

I'd say Sleepy Hollow too for Abbie Mills and her sister, Jenny. She co-stars with Ichabod but is very much in charge otherwise. Her sister isn't a slouch either.

if they were smart, they'd bank off ScarJo and do a Black Widow solo film or Black Widow/SHIELD or Black Widow/Hawkeye one. Maybe Budapest lol

That has already been shelved for the time being in favor of the more likely Captain Marvel (formerly Ms Marvel) and hopefully Katee Sackoff playing the lead. Nothing has been confirmed but Feige has hinted strongly at a female superhero movie in the next few years. And as he pointed out in his reason why Black Widow doesn't need her own movie, he mentioned she's been in so many other movies that she's had as much screen time as the leads (certainly more than any other non-leading hero). Not that it should count as a movie, but he is right that it would be better for a new hero to debut in their own movie instead of her pulling a reverse Avengers.

 

[nightwing06]

When i reviewed Need for Speed last week i stated it was watching the stepchild of the Fast and Furious films.
Well Divergent fares better in it relation to films with strong female heroines in dystopian futures,basically i feel
its a blood cousin to The Hunger Game films.
Whats left of the people after a great war on earth has been divided into five distinct factions: Abnegation (selfless), Amity (kind), Candor (honest), Erudite (intelligent) and Dauntless (brave).Now all seems to be going well and its business as usual,as people come of age and choose their factions.Our Heroine Beatrice (Shailene Woodley) posseses the qualities of 3 factions
which makes her Divergent,and its also forbidden.Something sinister lies beneath it all and rebellion sits upon the fringes of
this all to neat order.
The film is definitely helped by the magnetic and believable prescense of Woodley and Zoë Kravitz.With the exception of
Miles Teller the guys in the film (Jai Courtney and Theo James) come off a bit stiff.
Kate Winslet pops in and out as some ice queen overseer but doesnt impress much here.
Divergent is a very enjoyable adventure and is far better than the YA novel,borefest, adaptations Hollywood has been turning out lately.
Im looking forward to the next chapter.

Scale of 1-10 an 8

 

[ComicChick]

winslet is more important in the sequel than this one

 

[DrCosmic]

(Sigh) Perhaps I'm just so unimpressed that I don't like even the slightest suggestion that this is similar to the far superior 'Hunger Games'. There are similarities but this is definitely its own thing. The themes of the two books and movies are very different Hunger Games deals with overcoming oppression from government and Divergent is about not having to conform to what people expect you to be.

That is a difference, no doubt, but to me that's very slight. Katniss overcomes oppression by being noncomformist. Tris is nonconformist by overcoming oppression. They seem like two sides of the same coin to me. I think where Divergent breaks down (and this is without having read the book), is that the theme doesn't inform the story enough. Yes the force of authority/conforming is a problem, but much of the problems that Tris faces are because Dauntless are a bunch of lunatics (loveable they may be) who Tris only fits in with because she has a death wish. And the other factions, to me, weren't very interesting at all. At all. There was no balance, so the authoritarianism didn't ring true to me. They became generic government types in a way, and that was sad, because there was much potential there.

No, it's an excuse. You keep saying that, but you still lack actual evidence to back it up. First of all, Selene is a popular enough character to get three movies starring her (not counting the prequel) so brining her up doesn't work. RE has gotten five movies, with a sixth one coming soon. And even if I were to except that you're right about those movies, the simple fact is that they're not very goo movies in general. I'm sorry, but the argument that a female superhero movie has to have characters act like Tris, or Katniss, or Ripley just isn't convincing. You've got nothing to support that argument, sorry but you just don't. Those movies succeeded because the characters were well written and the story was engaging and interesting, and they were marketed well. A female superhero movie would be no different. Point out the actually evidence that THG, Alien, Divergent, etc succeeded BECAUSE the leads acted the way that you describe them, that that's the main reason and not because the movies were good and the characters interesting. You can't do that, so your argument fails, it's that simple.

I'm saying these two things: highly vulnerable heroine and highly successful heroine - they go together. Why they go together may be any number of things, but I've shown that they go together. While what you say is true that Selene and Alice can recoup low budgets, a highly vulnerable heroine like Tris can get their whole domestic gross opening weekend with only a slightly higher budget and a slightly higher RT fresh rating, and similar marketing, and with a much less popular brand than RE, and a less recognizable/popular/cool setting than vampires.

It has nothing to do with how the characters act (Tris and Katniss act totally different, imho) or what have you. I accept that it could all just be a huge coincidence or something, but it'd be a heckuva coincidence.

What you are saying, is that the success of these highly vulnerable heroines means that an invulnerable heroine would also be equally successful. That you have not proven. And I have shown how you are comparing apples to oranges by not accounting for the differences in what you are using as a reference (non superheroes) and what you are saying would work the same (Superheroes).

The idea that it all comes down to quality issue is an interesting one. We have not seen a high quality female action film where the protagonist isn't extremely vulnerable compared to male heroes. So perhaps, if that were to happen, something magical would take place and it'd be successful and audiences would react to a woman just like they would a man. Do note, that we have seen these types of high quality averagely-vulnerable heroines in comics, namely, Simone's WW and DeConnick's Captain Marvel. They don't sell well, scarcely better than the normal lower quality runs. While we haven't seen a vulnerable Captain Marvel solo, we've seen Odyssey and New52 Wonder Woman where she is the target of the gods and at their mercy and on the run. In those runs she is constantly winning new fans and selling much better than usual. But even now, as New52 WW starts banging with Supes and Orion, now Harley Quinn, Batgirl, the new Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk are outselling her.

So while you may think a high quality Captain Marvel doing typical superheroic fare would do well, there's no reason for a movie exec to think so, based on what they've seen with Divergent and with high quality Captain Marvel in the comics.

tl;dr: Divergent selling well isn't evidence that movies unlike Divergent will sell well.

 

[DrCosmic]

Ones I watch(ed) in recent times:

Continuum. This show is basically the new Fringe for me.

Nikita recently aired its final episode.

Animated:

Legend of Korra. Probably some other cartoons out there I don't even pay attention to.

Shows that aren't that much defined by their action component:

Keri Russell's character occasionally has to do some action in The Americans.

Ditto for Tatiana Maslany's characters in Orphan Black.

Orphan Black is the TRUTH. Can't wait til it comes back. Loved Nikita and Korra too. Continuum was okay.

 

[Silvermoon]

Saw Divergent over this weekend. I had read the book but it had been so long since I had that going into the movie I remembered not that much. Which perhaps was a good thing as I wasn't constantly comparing to the book.

I thought it was a good movie, I think I liked it a bit better than Hunger Games. I thought the cast for the most part was okay, I think the one issue I had was the boys among Triss' initiate friends, they all looked the same and so at times throughout the movie it was hard remembering which was which. Wish they'd had some different hair colors, more extreme hairstyles or something that helped in differentiating them.

Probably won't see it in the theater again, but it will be a DVD/Blu-Ray purchase. I'd give it maybe a 7/10

 

[GwensNeckBrace]

I finally saw this last weekend. I didn't read the book and had only seen one trailer, so I was expecting this to be a YA basic borefest but I decided to check it out for Queen Shailene. I freaking loved it! I was entertained throughout the entire movie, the action sequences were spot on, and Shailene delivered. Theo, albiet being eye candy, was kind of dry so I hope he steps up his game with the future installations. I'm considering watching this again. I honestly enjoyed this much more than I enjoyed The Hunger Games.
Bring on Insurgent.

 

[Steelsheen]

I read from the fans of the franchise said the movie could've been a whole lot more faithful. The major beats were hit, but everything else was left out of the movie.

*speaks for said fans*

overall it was pretty faithful to the book, but there are some crucial stuff that was changed but didnt really make any sense why it should have (such as Tris' aptitude test). sure it makes for more visually exciting narration but given that its a story about being Divergent, the substituted scenes make little sense. because seriously, what did a mirrored hall have anything to do with Tris' other traits that proves she was divergent (her intelligence, selfishness, kindness, dishonesty).

 

[The Guard]

I found this entertaining with a few decent ideas, but ultimately generic and kind of hollow.

Shailene Woodley is a good actress, but simply doesn't seem to have/didn't show the intensity required to make Tris' transformation at Dauntless believeable, and everyone around her was pretty much cardboard as far as characterization, though I did like Four's performance at times. The rest of the cast was solid, if unimpressive.

Storywise, there are just too many logical inconsistencies and dangling elements in this film. Any story twists and developments can be seen coming a mile away, and the movie darn near falls apart during the third act, which has one of the lousiest combat/battle sequences/montages I've seen on film. The

Spoiler

death of her father

is especially poorly handled. The filmmakers want certain things to have weight, but they just don't go there, so attempts at paralleling real world/historical events fall flat.

Overall, it's a well-directed movie, with decent effects, production design, etc, but it's not very well written. I suspect some of that has to do with limitations of the source material itself, based on what I've learned about it since.

The main problem for me, though, is that I don't understand why being "Divergent" was considered so special/odd in their world in the first place. They never really bother to set up the "Why" of it all.

I get it, the society works best when everyone contributes in a particular way in terms of their career, but why did the people in that society only have certain traits they were able to use?

Were those traits genetically bred out of them or something?

It sort of insists on its own concept, but never explains it, and it all kind of falls apart under any real analysis.

 

[Octoberist]

*speaks for said fans*

overall it was pretty faithful to the book, but there are some crucial stuff that was changed but didnt really make any sense why it should have (such as Tris' aptitude test). sure it makes for more visually exciting narration but given that its a story about being Divergent, the substituted scenes make little sense. because seriously, what did a mirrored hall have anything to do with Tris' other traits that proves she was divergent (her intelligence, selfishness, kindness, dishonesty).

I just heard from the producers (who seem to be very nice people; they want to protect the young casts from the evils of Hollywood and greed) that they had a manuscript of the book before it got published.

They probably got notes from Roth, but overall the template was the manuscript not the book, if that makes sense.

 

[The Silent Traveler]

My friend and I watched the movie last Sat. Even though I don't read the book, I like the movie version in overall.

I have never heard of the book series and I'll read them when I have a time to read.

Well, The pacing is great and the plot is widely understood. These minor characters are not written enough to be developed while major characters are good enough though. Finally, the ending had left me to be interested in the next film installment.

I will give it 7/10.

 

[jmc]

I saw a trailer for this at the cinema the other day, looks very much like a poor man's Hunger Games.

 

[ComicChick]

The main problem for me, though, is that I don't understand why being "Divergent" was considered so special/odd in their world in the first place. They never really bother to set up the "Why" of it all.

I get it, the society works best when everyone contributes in a particular way in terms of their career, but why did the people in that society only have certain traits they were able to use?

Were those traits genetically bred out of them or something?

It sort of insists on its own concept, but never explains it, and it all kind of falls apart under any real analysis.

it is far better explained in Insurgent, the sequel. the way i took it, is that they want people in their society to fit one of the 5 molds, and that's basically it. if you failed initiation you were kicked out of society. if you were someone they couldn't force into a mold, aka a sort of freethinker, then you are a risk to their society because it shows people that you don't have to conform to the molds.

these are the psychological metaphors and the whole nature vs nurture debates i found interesting in the book, and what separates it from all the comparisons it gets from other YA themed novels.

 

[Steelsheen]

I just heard from the producers (who seem to be very nice people; they want to protect the young casts from the evils of Hollywood and greed) that they had a manuscript of the book before it got published.

They probably got notes from Roth, but overall the template was the manuscript not the book, if that makes sense.

thats the first i heard of that -- about the manuscript being given to production although i do know that Veronica was involved in tweaking/ writing some scenes for the film to bring in important beats from the book that bears consequence on future films/ character developments.

I found this entertaining with a few decent ideas, but ultimately generic and kind of hollow.

Shailene Woodley is a good actress, but simply doesn't seem to have/didn't show the intensity required to make Tris' transformation at Dauntless believeable, and everyone around her was pretty much cardboard as far as characterization, though I did like Four's performance at times. The rest of the cast was solid, if unimpressive.

Storywise, there are just too many logical inconsistencies and dangling elements in this film. Any story twists and developments can be seen coming a mile away, and the movie darn near falls apart during the third act, which has one of the lousiest combat/battle sequences/montages I've seen on film. The

Spoiler

death of her father

is especially poorly handled. The filmmakers want certain things to have weight, but they just don't go there, so attempts at paralleling real world/historical events fall flat.

Overall, it's a well-directed movie, with decent effects, production design, etc, but it's not very well written. I suspect some of that has to do with limitations of the source material itself, based on what I've learned about it since.

The main problem for me, though, is that I don't understand why being "Divergent" was considered so special/odd in their world in the first place. They never really bother to set up the "Why" of it all.

I get it, the society works best when everyone contributes in a particular way in terms of their career, but why did the people in that society only have certain traits they were able to use?

Were those traits genetically bred out of them or something?

It sort of insists on its own concept, but never explains it, and it all kind of falls apart under any real analysis.

(emphasis mine)

you're kinda in the right track there Guard but the explanation is in Allegiant (the 3rd book). i know the movie ended a bit unimpressive (and like you said, the last act felt disjointed) but Insurgent has more going on-- they still need to feature the other two factions fully-- Candor and Amity, as well as the important roles of the Factionless.

theyre switching up directors for the next film so maybe this will bode well cinematically the way it did for Catching Fire (since HG also had a few clunky things about it under its first director, much like what Divergent suffered).

 

[ComicChick]

when i went to see Capt America 2 last night, i overheard a group of guys talking about Divergent and how much they enjoyed it. I was kinda surprised, but it was nice to hear even guys enjoy this film, despite it's stereotypical "female draw" as many say

 

[dark_b]

they said and i quote ''to ugly for MJ''

Madrid premiere

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Didn't expect much from this one to be honest, thought the trailers were underwhelming at best, then, not really knowing why, the tv spots got me a bit more interested.

Honestly, it's good, I didn't really think I'd say that, but I have to admit it. The concept is interesting, Shailene, as usual, gives a great performance (isn't she a great crier as well?), it's nice to see a different side of her, fragile & strong at the same time, even badass should I say.

Theo James surprised me, I kept thinking he looked annoying as hell and kind of *****y, and he's actually good. Courtney makes for a magnificent *****ebag & ***hole, so does Miles in a different register as well.

The rest of the cast is fine. The acting is very good, it looks good, nice cinematography although there's no real personality in there, it IS very very similar to THG obviously, but still distinct enough if that makes any sense.

Although the last 15 min have kind of convenient narrative devices (suspension of disbelief in full power), they also surprised me in a good way, it kind of went not like I expected it to. Production values are strong, there are some standout scenes (the zip-line scene feels quite exhilarating), the score is good, I liked the bold use of an Ellie Goulding song as a sort of theme, the ending left me excited for the sequel.

Mission accomplished.

Not too hot about Schwentke for the second movie though, I hope he pulls off something good instead of his stinkers.