Do Women need to be More Aggressive, or Less?

[OverMyHead]

Here's an interesting statement written by David Zinczenko, MenHealth's Magazine:

With marriage rates dropping faster than ratings for The Apprentice-we're down more than 50 percent since 1970, according to the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, with approximately 100 million singles in the U.S.-it's no wonder that we spend a lot of time thinking, talking and debating the quality of our relationships. In fact, more than 40 percent of both men and women say they spend at least two hours every day thinking about their current or potential relationships. (Scary fact: About 10 percent of us spend more than six hours every day doing so, according to a national Harris Interactive poll.) One reason: Many of these relationships simply aren't panning out, as evidenced by the fact that fewer men and women are getting married. Doesn't matter whose fault it is-men's, women's, or nobody's. We're just simply not making it to this stage of commitment as often as we used to.
Now, you could argue that's a good thing (because, of course, you shouldn't settle in with just anyone), and you could argue that it's a bad thing (because of the decline in the traditional familial infrastructure). But one thing worth thinking about is how our dating and mating rituals have changed over the years-and how that's changed our approach to commitment.
One trend that men have been grappling with: Figuring out their roles in relationships as women have become increasingly financially independent, increasingly sexually liberated, and increasingly determined not to let their biological clocks dictate their relationship status. Before you hurl e-tomatoes in my direction, hear me out: All those things can be good, but some men struggle with understanding the different levels of female aggression-how it may fluctuate at different stages of the relationship, and how it can be a turn-on in some situations and a turn-off in others.
Initially, for example, few things are as attractive to a man as a woman who's unafraid to pursue the guy she's interested in. But as the relationship grows, that same assertiveness can leave a man feeling like he's less in charge of his life than he'd like to be. Men tend to leave a lot of the life details-from social planning to family planning-to the women in their lives. So when a woman has all the power, and she asserts her new role as boss in many realms, it can leave men feeling a little, well, little. Hypocritical on a guy's part? Perhaps, but his feelings can easily change with the tide of relationships. I spoke to dozens of men about the different stages of their relationships, and what behaviors they rank as too aggressive or "just right." But I'd also love to hear your thoughts. When does assertiveness change from a deal-maker to a deal-breaker?

• Relationship Point: The Approach
  Guys' Take: Women Aren't Aggressive Enough
  
  For a long time, men have upheld the role of the hunters. Women? The rejectors. Doesn't matter whether that initial approach happens at a bar, a bookstore, a coffee shop, or at the drive-thru intercom, guys who have spent their lives dreaming up opening lines and innovative approaches feel like decade-old carpets-they're just plain worn down. The ultimate rejuvenator: A woman who's unafraid to hunt the hunter.
• Relationship Point: The Link
  Guys' Take: Women Can Be Too Aggressive
  
  When it comes to new relationships, some women can have the same strategy as food marketers: They want to slap labels on everything. Exclusive! Just Dating! Friends Only! 100% Completely Committed! Lots of guys don't mind the status, and they're fine with the natural progression of dating. But guys also hate premature enunciation-a declaration of the label too early in the relationship. Pushing too hard early can quickly turn his excitement about the relationship into an indictment of it.
• Relationship Point: The Hook Up
  Guys' Take: Women Aren't Aggressive Enough
  
  Men certainly have long lists when it comes to their bedroom wants: a little more of this, a lot more of that, fat-free whipped cream please. But if there's one thing that men really crave in the bedroom, it's not a certain position, or even a certain act. It's a certain attitude. What many men want when it comes to sex is for women to show a little more assertion, aggression, and initiation. In the aforementioned national survey, only 25 percent of men rate their current partners as an 8 or higher on a 1-10 scale of sexual aggressiveness, while 60 percent of men say that's the level they'd like her to be. Many guys feel that if his mate is confident in the bedroom, he's more likely to stick with her beyond the bedroom walls.
• Relationship Point: The Plateau
  Guys' Take: Women Can Be Too Aggressive
  
  Every long-term relationship reaches the point when the routines, the dialogue, the sex, the everything can feel more predictable than a Paula Abdul critique. But that doesn't mean the relationship's bad; it just means it's steady. While 92 percent of men say they want to marry, that doesn't always happen. Why? For one reason, men sometimes feel like, if the relationship is a car trip, they've been kicked out of the driver's seat and thrown in the trunk. Most guys want to have a say in the speed and direction the relationship is going, and the minute they sense that women are grabbing the wheel-as opposed to sharing the driving responsibility-then they feel lost. Case in point: in the survey for Men, Love & Sex, the number-one thing that men said bothered them about their partners was how much they nagged. When a woman applies a lot of pressure on a guy-whether it's to fix his bad habits or convince him to have babies-it simply feels suffocating.
• Relationship Point: At the Crossroads
  Guys' Take: Women Tend to be Just Right
  
  Some relationships work out perfectly: boy meets, dates, and marries girl. Some relationships work perfectly imperfectly: boy meets, dates, and dumps girl (or is dumped by girl). But lots of relationships fall into the limbo category where neither partner knows whether the relationship elevator is going up or down. In those cases, the woman often forces the man's hand: Are you in, or out? For which, we thank you: Sometimes a guy needs that kick to get him moving-either down the aisle, or down the road.

I believe a women should have a certain assertive at times, and specifically less at others. It's a women's role to find out when.

 

[November Rain]

women aren't aggresive enough on the approach? 95% of all my relationship have been based on women approaching me?

I actually find men are more into relationship labels than women, although it always starts off with how much intimacy one has normally done, first base, second base etc... It also depends on how frequently a dude dates and what his options are like as to the label that he gives his spouse although he won't put it accross verbally.

women aren't aggressive enough in bed? Ha, you give a woman exactly what she wants and you'll soon see the most timid become an absolute beast. I say the majority of men (and women) simply believe they know it all when it comes to intimacy and are unwilling to simply ask how their partner likes things to be done. Suck in the pride and take lessons. Even the most assertive of women have been brought down to earth with a bump with a few home truths that most men aren't willing to tell them simply because they are too pleased to be getting any to worry about the quality. Besides the bedroom is the realm of the female so if you arent pleasuring her enough or she doesn't feel sexy enough pleasuring you, then it's your fault!

plateau is swings and roundabouts, it all depends on who likes who more and who is also scared that the other partner is going to run off. Asserting regulations or boundaries or beign submissive are just aspects of this situation occuring. You either realise its happening and assure your partner everything is ok or you go along with it for short spouses, but never get dragged anywhere you don't want to be.

Crossroads do seem fairly fair, although when confronted in such a situation most men would generally cave to avoid confrontation.

all in all, the article is only talking about one woman, probably not a very experienced lady who is till in her young 20s and doesnt take into consideration how aware people are of the game nowadays, the laddette factor, the older woman, the young single mother etc...and definitely a lady who doesnt get the opportunity to date/dump partners often,probably even slightly insecure.

bah

 

[Kyalesyin]

I think a lot of women need to be more agressive, or preferably more assertive although aggressive will do, in pretty much every area of life. Most of the women I see are spinless, snivveling wretches who don't dare stand up for themselves or think outside of a very small box. Heck, they only qualify as women by age.

I'd like to see women being able to think.

 

[heypapajinx]

women aren't aggresive enough on the approach? 95% of all my relationship have been based on women approaching me?

haHA!!!
THANK YOU!!!!
me and most of my girlfriends are usually the agressors when it comes to emotional relationships AND sexual relationships.
i think the problem is that men and women are in two different places at all times of their lives, with a few exceptions.
most women still have the ideal of being taken care of; a house, a child, a "family".
most men want their freedom and only settle down under pressure.
as societal pressure is lifting and more men are starting to realize that there ARE women out there who will indeed have sex, unattached, unemotional sex, why should they settle down?
i think it's silly to say that the divorce rate would be fixed if women were only more aggressive.
no one forced into a restraint will stay there for long.

 

[Erzengel]

I think a good amount of guys here could benefit from a more aggressive woman. They seem to like to sit on their hands waiting for opportunity to fall in their laps instead of grabbing opportunity and seizing it.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

I think a good amount of guys here could benefit from a more aggressive woman. They seem to like to sit on their hands waiting for opportunity to fall in their laps instead of grabbing opportunity and seizing it.

such as whom

 

[Erzengel]

Aren't we all suspicious?

Not everything is about you GAH.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

Aren't we all suspicious?

Not everything is about you GAH.

yeah, but i'm sure i popped up in your mind, while thinking that.

 

[November Rain]

I think a good amount of guys here could benefit from a more aggressive woman. They seem to like to sit on their hands waiting for opportunity to fall in their laps instead of grabbing opportunity and seizing it.

i think the media has something to do with this with every film about a out of luck dude having a beautiful woman falling out of the sky right in front of them

life is not that simple......although it has been for me

 

[Erzengel]

yeah, but i'm sure i popped up in your mind, while thinking that.

Don't you have a gf? So how does that apply to you at all?

Paranoid much?

 

[terry78]

It would be easier, yes, but then the challenge would be gone. Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there as a rite of passage.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I think a good amount of guys here could benefit from a more aggressive woman. They seem to like to sit on their hands waiting for opportunity to fall in their laps instead of grabbing opportunity and seizing it.

They're sitting on their girlfriends.

 

[KeanuE]

more

 

[Addendum]

Here's an interesting statement written by David Zinczenko, MenHealth's Magazine:

And I thought women were whiny *****es

 

[Erzengel]

They're sitting on their girlfriends.

I love that fetish.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

mmmmm...girlbench.com

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I think a lot of women need to be more agressive, or preferably more assertive although aggressive will do, in pretty much every area of life. Most of the women I see are spinless, snivveling wretches who don't dare stand up for themselves or think outside of a very small box. Heck, they only qualify as women by age.

I'd like to see women being able to think.

QFMFT!!

 

[terry78]

I think a lot of women need to be more agressive, or preferably more assertive although aggressive will do, in pretty much every area of life. Most of the women I see are spinless, snivveling wretches who don't dare stand up for themselves or think outside of a very small box. Heck, they only qualify as women by age.

I'd like to see women being able to think.

 

[redmarvel]

Some women need to be more agressive.
Some women need to be less agressive.

Most people just need to learn to accept other people for who they are and not try to change them.

I think some of the real reasons for fewer longterm commitments (marriages) are as follows:
1. Many believe they can do better (looking for that perfect someone that only exists in movies / on T.V. / in a fantasy).
2. Many are more selfish (don't want to give up their "freedoms", "rights" and co-operate with anyone else).
3. Many aren't sure where / when it's safe to meet someone (dating services are getting a lot more common, as are mail-order marriages)
4. Many people are delaying meeting / committing to someone until their own life is "perfect" and then finding it is either too late or they don't want to make a change to their "perfect" life.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

4. Many people are delaying meeting / committing to someone until their own life is "perfect" and then finding it is either too late or they don't want to make a change to their "perfect" life.

wow, this is exactly what i said to my girlfriend before we decided to see other people. (in my case no one)

Don't you have a gf? So how does that apply to you at all?

Paranoid much?

remember that thread i started about the friend with the girl who wanted to marry.....that was about me. and read my above post to redmarvel. add to that all the stuff i've said about myself............ yeah.

 

[vibeke_T]

whats so cool about susie white girl?

 

[Erzengel]

wow, this is exactly what i said to my girlfriend before we decided to see other people. (in my case no one)




remember that thread i started about the friend with the girl who wanted to marry.....that was about me. and read my above post to redmarvel. add to that all the stuff i've said about myself............ yeah.

You mean people who post stuff about their "friend" are actually posting about themselves? Not a surprise there Johnny.

 

[redmarvel]

wow, this is exactly what i said to my girlfriend before we decided to see other people. (in my case no one)




remember that thread i started about the friend with the girl who wanted to marry.....that was about me. and read my above post to redmarvel. add to that all the stuff i've said about myself............ yeah.

That's rather sad really, because even if you succeed in creating the "perfect" life, it is unlikely to remain "perfect" forever. What is "perfect" today will eventually wear out / break / change over time. It is wonderful to want to work for a better future, but don't lose out on the opportunities available to you now/today for something that may never come to be.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Remember that thread I started about the news story about the guy who claimed he was raped by a Great Dane in the park?
That was GAH.

 

[BRUTAL]

QFMFT!!

Nothing worse then timid Pickles eh Spoons?... wait... that came out wrong...