Do you accept the theory of evolution? - Part 1

Why would it matter where they were, particularly since there doesn't seem to be any evidence that humans and any of these creatures existed at the same time?
Of course it would matter where they lived because that would allow humans to live nearby.... safely, or as safe as we are with bears nearby.

No evidence.... yet it has just been shown here over the last several pages. Not only from the Bible "possibilities" but also the images that were carved or drawn on things. Did you watch the 3 video set from a couple of days ago... definite evidence there...
 
"Possible" is the best you and I have when "concluding" our belief of evolution and creation.
 
Of course it would matter where they lived because that would allow humans to live nearby.... safely, or as safe as we are with bears nearby.

No evidence.... yet it has just been shown here over the last several pages. Not only from the Bible "possibilities" but also the images that were carved or drawn on things. Did you watch the 3 video set from a couple of days ago... definite evidence there...

I meant why would it matter since most of those creatures likely died out millions of years before humans.

What evidence is there that these images were of actual prehistoric creatures and not mythological ones?

What evidence has been shown over the last several pages? None of the creationist evidence, including that shown in the videos -- which seems to involve dating artifacts without evidence to back up that daring and interpreting prehistoric artwork without any evidence outside visual impressions of the artwork -- which he has not dated -- to back up those interpretations, seems to hold up.

It does not help the videos that Baugh's claimed credentials don't seem to hold up either: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html
Nor that he's already been caught practicing what can charitably be called questionable science: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/wilker5.html
More of his problems with the Burdick print: http://paleo.cc/paluxy/wilker6.htm
And his condemnation by organizations like Answers in Genesis, the whole deal with "creation water," his "Lake Erie Monster," where all the evidence was "accidentally" destroyed before anyone but he, Hovind, and a biologist who he swore verified the find -- but he has always refused to name -- could take a look at it.
 
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I meant why would it matter since most of those creatures likely died out millions of years before humans.

What evidence is there that these images were of actual prehistoric creatures and not mythological ones?

What evidence has been shown over the last several pages? None of the creationist evidence, including that shown in the videos, seems to hold up.

It does not help the videos that Braugh's claimed credentials don't seem to hold up either: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html

But if the dinos didn't die out..... hence why they might be mentioned by people (Job in the Bible- Job lived at that time so I think he would know more than us) and we also have the drawn/carved images.

Sure there is a chance that some/all could be mythological just as in the same way they could be prehistoric creatures.

And you can bet the creationists evidence holds up, how can so many drawings from around the globe be so accurate at showing dinos and several different types. It's not proof, but is it evidence, you bet!

And that article on Dr. Braugh is from 1989 (and the site you used is known to twist things with creationists - a trip over to www.trueorigins.org will supply that evidence). Since he still claims his "Dr." degree, perhaps it has been worked out. Regardless, it was pretty simple to understand the videos and one should use their own conclusions as to what they saw (and any of the videos you used - you've added a couple of others since I quoted this post, have nothing to do with the 3 video set I posted a few pages back). You've made your decision, it seems, and that's fine, but I've equally made mine.
 
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But if the dinos didn't die out..... hence why they might be mentioned by people (Job in the Bible- Job lived at that time so I think he would know more than us) and we also have the drawn/carved images.
All the evidence says the dinosaurs did die out, the last species going about 65.5 million years ago. The Job poem was probably written between the 6th and 4th century BC.

Sure there is a chance that some/all could be mythological just as in the same way they could be prehistoric creatures.
Yes, but there's no evidence from the artworks themselves that they are prehistoric creatures, and the geological, etc evidence seems to preclude the possibility.
And you can bet the creationists evidence holds up, how can so many drawings from around the globe be so accurate at showing dinos and several different types. It's not proof, but is it evidence, you bet!
But it doesn't. Hard geological evidence versus visual impressions of what we think an artwork MAY have depicted?

And that article on Dr. Braugh is from 1989. Since he still claims his "Dr." degree, perhaps it has been worked out. Regardless, it was pretty simple to understand the videos and one should use their own conclusions as to what they saw (and any of the videos you used - you've added a couple of others since I quoted this post, have nothing to do with the 3 video set I posted a few pages back). You've made your decision, it seems, and that's fine, but I've equally made mine.
It does not seem to have been worked out since then -- as the stuff about the footprint, etc doesn't seem to have been -- and the videos essentially rely on sense impressions of artwork without any additional evidence and also on dating artifacts without any evidence that their dates would have matched some late dates for dinosaur extinction. How does Baugh account for the geological and paleontological evidence of the date of the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event? Or does he suppose that all these artifacts were created 65.5 million years ago?

All the True Origins rebuttals to the TalkOrigins website have already themselves been rebutted. For example, the helium diffusion dates (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/helium/zircons.html), the evidences for macroevolution (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/camp.html and http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/A_reply_to_Ashby_Camp_and_TrueOrigins_on_Avian_Phylogeny), Malcolm Bowden's young moon (http://www.outersystem.us/creationism/moonrecession2.html), and so on.
 
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"Possible" is the best you and I have when "concluding" our belief of evolution and creation.

That's a gross misrepresentation of the overwhelming "possibility" of the theory of evolution.

Creationism has "possible." Evolution has "probable." Probably > Possible.
 
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All the evidence says the dinosaurs did die out, the last species going about 65.5 million years ago. The Job poem was probably written between the 6th and 4th century BC.

Yes, but there's no evidence from the artworks themselves that they are prehistoric creatures, and the geological, etc evidence seems to preclude the possibility.
But it doesn't. Hard geological evidence versus visual impressions of what we think an artwork MAY have depicted?

It does not seem to have been worked out since then -- as the stuff about the footprint, etc doesn't seem to have been -- and the videos essentially rely on sense impressions of artwork without any additional evidence and also on dating artifacts without any evidence that their dates would have matched some late dates for dinosaur extinction. How does Baugh account for the geological and paleontological evidence of the date of the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event? Or does he suppose that all these artifacts were created 65.5 million years ago?

All the True Origins rebuttals to the TalkOrigins website have already themselves been rebutted.FOr example, the helium diffusion dates (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/helium/zircons.html), the evidences for macroevolution (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/camp.html and http://evolutionwiki.org/wiki/A_reply_to_Ashby_Camp_and_TrueOrigins_on_Avian_Phylogeny), Malcolm Bowden's young moon (http://www.outersystem.us/creationism/moonrecession2.html), and so on.
No, all the evidence doesn't say the dinosaurs died out 65 million or so years ago. That is a common teaching but nothing can be farther from the truth. If the Job book isn't just a poem (it sure doesn't seem to just be some made up story Job felt like telling but rather a real description of something that gives man a warning about it - If Job saw it, remember, he was there, then it existed just a couple of thousand years ago). And do you think it would be practical for the education system, for one example, to come out and say everything taught about the dinos was wrong, man lived/may have lived with them... etc.... that won't happen anytime soon.

The evidence is overwhelming with the artwork, as the video shows, the very characteristics of the dinos and their behavior (or our expected behavior of them) as we know it are at least often being portrayed in the artwork.

Those talkorigins vs trueorigins are seemingly always going back and forth. Nothing has been finalized on either end. I'll check it out a bit more but I haven't seen a finalization on many things yet.
 
That's a gross misrepresentation of the overwhelming "possibility" of the theory of evolution.

Creationism has "possible." Evolution has "probable." Probably > Possible.
No, evolution doesn't have "probable." You simply only see it that way because that is your understanding. My understanding is very different than yours (since I've given the Bible and creation evidence a harder look than you, or at least it seems that way, plus I've looked at evolution in a critical way just as I've done with creation and in the end and to my best knowledge, creation is where I stand).

But even if I was to accept your "probable," that doesn't mean anything conclusive or fact and so the "possible" still holds light to your "probable." That's actually all I'm trying to say here. God willing, if I get more, great, but creation is standing tall alongside evolution.
 
Where does it say in the Bible that evolution doesn't exist? No one can answer me that. All of these Christians that seem to take the Bible literally cannot tell me where God says that evolution is not the mechanism he used to create man.
 
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Pretty sure that conflicts with a few million years of evolution.

And please don't tell me it's up to interpretation.
 
First...there are many interpretations. Second, people dismiss evolution but picture giant hands making a man out of dirt and then blowing Aslan breath into his nostrils to make the sand man come alive into Adam?

Which one of those sounds more plausible and possible?

Then what does this god do? He puts them in a paradise with a tree of evil and tells them not to eat from it. God supposedly knows what's going to happen since he is omnipotent but is angry when Adam and Eve eat from the tree. If God knew they were going to eat from it and didn't want them to...why did he put it in there? If he didn't know, then he isn't omnipotent. Which one is it?
 
Where does it say in the Bible that evolution doesn't exist? No one can answer me that. All of these Christians that seem to take the Bible literally cannot tell me where God says that evolution is not the mechanism he used to create man.
I don't think any creationist here says evolution doesn't exist. The very opposite is true, we know things can change over time, but we don't believe that things have completely changed to something different..... for example, we don't believe though any number of generations, that people are related to dolphins, for example. No where does the Bible also say that man was created over vast amounts of time from various other forms of life, or evolution. It simply says man was created from the earth on the spot.
 
I don't think any creationist here says evolution doesn't exist. The very opposite is true, we know things can change over time, but we don't believe that things have completely changed to something different..... for example, we don't believe though any number of generations, that people are related to dolphins, for example. No where does the Bible also say that man was created over vast amounts of time from various other forms of life, or evolution. It simply says man was created from the earth on the spot.

So you believe one day in God's time is 24 hours? And Jesus is coming back 'soon' 2 thousand years ago.
 
No, all the evidence doesn't say the dinosaurs died out 65 million or so years ago. That is a common teaching but nothing can be farther from the truth.

It does, and that's why it is the common teaching. Where is the credible scientific evidence that says otherwise?

If the Job book isn't just a poem (it sure doesn't seem to just be some made up story Job felt like telling but rather a real description of something that gives man a warning about it - If Job saw it, remember, he was there, then it existed just a couple of thousand years ago).
Job consists of a didactic folk tale hung around a poem likely composed centuries before, not merely 2000 years ago, and used by the prose writer for his own purposes. Parts of the frame story have been found in other texts. There is no evidence for Job's historicity -- in fact, the "Job motif" was quite common in Assyrian literature.

And do you think it would be practical for the education system, for one example, to come out and say everything taught about the dinos was wrong, man lived/may have lived with them... etc.... that won't happen anytime soon.
It would be especially impractical if it was wrong. In any event, that is not evidence that the "common" teaching is wrong.

The evidence is overwhelming with the artwork, as the video shows, the very characteristics of the dinos and their behavior (or our expected behavior of them) as we know it are at least often being portrayed in the artwork.
No it isn't. It seems to consist in vague similarities between depicted creatures and how we think prehistoric creatures looked. We cannot be sure how the composers of the artworks intended to depict the behavior of the creatures beyond the way wild creatures in general would be depicted. Where is the evidence that they were thinking specifically of "dinosaur behavior" as opposed to the behavior of mythological animals or animals contemporaneous with them?

Those talkorigins vs trueorigins are seemingly always going back and forth. Nothing has been finalized on either end. I'll check it out a bit more but I haven't seen a finalization on many things yet.
But many of the trueorigin claims -- for example, the helium diffusion data -- do not seem to have advanced beyond their probable fallacious bases while the talkorigin and other rebuttals seem to have advanced the evidence for their position. For example, Humphreys seems not to have answered any of the objections to his helium hypothesis or further strengthened his models whereas Loechelt's numerous recent criticisms and Henke's continued researches have poked numerous holes in it.
 
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So you believe one day in God's time is 24 hours? And Jesus is coming back 'soon' 2 thousand years ago.

To be fair, they did cover that part.

The Old Testament does say that the Messiah may tarry.

Covered their bases on that one.
 
It does, and that's why it is the common teaching. Where is the credible scientific evidence that says otherwise?


Job consists of a didactic frame tale hung around a poem likely composed centuries before (6th-4th century BC, not merely 2000 years ago) and used by the prose writer for his own purposes. Parts of the frame story have been found in other texts. There is no evidence for Job's historicity -- in fact, the "Job motif" was quite common in Assyrian literature.

It would be especially impractical if it was wrong. In any event, that is not evidence that the "common" teaching is wrong.





No it isn't. It seems to consist in vague similarities between depicted creatures and how we think prehistoric creatures looked. We cannot be sure how the composers of the artworks intended to depict the behavior of the creatures beyond the way wild creatures in general would be depicted. Where is the evidence that they were thinking specifically of "dinosaur behavior" as opposed to the behavior of mythological animals or animals contemporaneous with them?

But many of the trueorigin claims -- for example, the helium diffusion data -- do not seem to have advanced beyond their probable fallacious bases while the talkorigin and other rebuttals seem to have advanced the evidence for their position. For example, Humphreys seems not to have answered any of the objections to his helium hypothesis or further strengthened his models whereas Loechelt's numerous recent criticisms and Henke's continued researches have poked numerous holes in it.
No, the evidence is there with the dinosaur examples from the videos. The clear descriptions cannot be ignored by the "artwork." I gave the reason as to why it isn't being taught inmy last post to you. And the evidence doesn't "prove" that dinos existed with man, it simply is exactly what it is, evidence - an open possiblity.

The common literature from what you said may be common with man but if the Bible is truly inspired by God, then the author/story/meaning is not of man, only written by man. The description stands as I have already said, beasts that existed in Job's day and a message where God is clearly defining (remember, it's God speaking) these creatures and giving Job (man) a warning about them and their power. (EDIT this in: I should have also included this but even looking at this outside of the God influence, the Bible message is not one of fairy tale/folk tale stories and is not regarded as that but rather a real lesson on life so, the Job story should be taken as literal. And to further this, even acknowledging your "folk" story aspect of Job, even though I cannot dismiss that entirely, it should not be dismissed as potentially being literal, too. And to further, all these stories of dragons and what have you from so many centuries ago, who knows how many of these stories could be based on man and real world experiences with living dinos at the time).

You see, about the common teaching of evolution in our education system, we simply don't know if evolution is wrong (even though there is evidence against it and there may have always been), however, society accepted it back then and at least until actual proof or even much stronger evidence comes out, the change to the education system isn't going to happen at this time and so our society in general just accepts our current thought on the subject. Though this is my personal thought, some creationists have talked about this or similar to this.

One piece of dinosaur behaviour is in the third video and about the t-rex (?) that is biting into the horse by it's neck at the juggular.

I also personally like the description of the dino with the stripes was pretty amazing since a dino with stripes has been recently found (first video). Just to many examples and I can't just brush them off.

Here is a newer article by trueorigin. http://www.trueorigin.org/evomyth01.asp
 
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No, evolution doesn't have "probable." You simply only see it that way because that is your understanding. My understanding is very different than yours (since I've given the Bible and creation evidence a harder look than you, or at least it seems that way, plus I've looked at evolution in a critical way just as I've done with creation and in the end and to my best knowledge, creation is where I stand).

But even if I was to accept your "probable," that doesn't mean anything conclusive or fact and so the "possible" still holds light to your "probable." That's actually all I'm trying to say here. God willing, if I get more, great, but creation is standing tall alongside evolution.

No I'm sorry, but "probable" > "possible," and evolution = probable and creationism = possible. Evolution has evidence. God doesn't. Period.
 
So you believe one day in God's time is 24 hours? And Jesus is coming back 'soon' 2 thousand years ago.
Poster above answered about the messiah may tarry.

Now, even though the Bible does say that a day is like a 1,000 years to God and a 1,000 years a day, the Bible is clear about "after it's kind" and while the extent of "after it's kind" may not be completely known, it is generally agreed that man is not related to anything in the sea through the so many generations science tells us we are. So again, I just can't accept evolution to that extent.

I'll check some time if I can find a write-up on the 6 day creation event as there was something pretty good as to why it was 6 24 hours days.
 
No I'm sorry, but "probable" > "possible," and evolution = probable and creationism = possible. Evolution has evidence. God doesn't. Period.
You're wrong just by your statement that creationism is "possible," that must mean there is some evidence.
 
Where does it say in the Bible that evolution doesn't exist? No one can answer me that. All of these Christians that seem to take the Bible literally cannot tell me where God says that evolution is not the mechanism he used to create man.
Can you stop the stereotyping?
Get this through your head:
Not all Creationists in this country are Christians.
Creationist ≠ Christian
OK?
 
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