Do You Believe In Evolution?

[TLH]

Do you think that the changes in gene frequencies in a population over time are caused by a supernatural being?

I don't think its direct causality, but I do think that something allows for the possibility of change and/or allows for changes to take place.

 

[psychocheeseman]

I believe in divine intervention -- the notion that we evolved but that something guided that evolutionary process along and allowed it to occur to put it very simplistically.

so does that mean you don't believe in free will - because the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

 

[squeekness]

so does that mean you don't believe in free will - because the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

Not neccessarily. It depends on the level of God's "tweaking." Guiding a life form gently, slowly from omeba to man isn't the same as deciding whether or not to make that same man rob a liquor store. We can have a level of free will that is outside the workings of God.

 

[TLH]

so does that mean you don't believe in free will - because the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

God does not need to be omniscient for Divine Intervention to hold true; he does, however, need to be omnipotent (or pretty damn powerful).

It's free will and omniscience that are mutually exclusive/incompatible -- and the theory that involves God's omniscience is Divine Foreknowledge, which I don't believe in. In my opinion, if God exists, he knows what we ought to do in a particular instance, but does not know what choice we will actually make.

 

[Carcharodon]

Assuming by evolution it is meant the origins of life, that is quite the interesting question.

That's not what it means. Not even remotely.

 

[Carcharodon]

I don't think its direct causality, but I do think that something allows for the possibility of change and/or allows for changes to take place.

There's this new field in science...I think it's called "genetics," (the "G" may be silent, though)...that actually already has ways to explain the mechanism behind said change.

Spoiler

The sarcasm isn't meant as malicious so much as meant to add emphasis to the point.

Spoiler

That said, of all religious philosophies I tend to like deism. I don't follow it, but I like it.

 

[chaseter]

The stupidity in this thread is increasing at an exponential level

 

[Bubonic]

I wish I hadn't been eating while catching up on the last few pages of this thread... :facepalm

 

[dark_b]

The stupidity in this thread is increasing at an exponential level

i think its more the ego.

so if i asked random people in the city how many would knwo what evolution is?

on this forum some people dont understand what it mean.

when i was young and i didnt know something i searched books . today it is google.
some people obvious think they know something when they mix things up.

 

[dark_b]

how many people know moveifan? i get a feelling that he is making fun of all of us here.

there is no way that someone would mix so much stuff up.

 

[Bubonic]

how many people know moveifan? i get a feelling that he is making fun of all of us here.

there is no way that someone would mix o much stuff up.

I definitely think he has earned one of these.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

when i was young and i didnt know something i searched books . today it is google.

Wikipedia to be more specific.

 

[dark_b]

Wikipedia to be more specific.

like i said google.
then i read at least 5 links. one of them is wiki

really in 2008 its almost impossible to ''not'' find something.

and i realyl can not belvie anymore that moveifan belives this. its not about only reading the wrong site. you read 5 or 8 of them and you will see that the info is not the same.

so something is fishy here.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

i think its more the ego.

For serious.

 

[psychocheeseman]

God does not need to be omniscient for Divine Intervention to hold true; he does, however, need to be omnipotent (or pretty damn powerful).

It's free will and omniscience that are mutually exclusive/incompatible -- and the theory that involves God's omniscience is Divine Foreknowledge, which I don't believe in. In my opinion, if God exists, he knows what we ought to do in a particular instance, but does not know what choice we will actually make.

Stay on topic dude we're talking evolution!

If God doesn't have omniscience super powers then how would he know what actions would lead to which organisms evolving? Simply he couldn't. He would be incapable of "designing" anything.

For you to believe in intelligent design you must believe god knows exactly what will happen when i tread on an ant and also that he forces me to to do so (thus wiping it's genetic predisposition from the gene pool).

Intelligent design (the version that involves evolution being directed) doesn't even fit with modern christian beliefs - it has no evidence and distracts from the beauty of reality.

Not necessarily. It depends on the level of God's "tweaking." Guiding a life form gently, slowly from amoeba to man isn't the same as deciding whether or not to make that same man rob a liquor store. We can have a level of free will that is outside the workings of God.

do animals have free will, or are they programmed robots?
Even if you argue that animals don't have free will they all are still affected by the actions of people - especially the hunting tactics of early man which would have significantly lowered the reproduction chances for animals within a species with less favorable survival traits.
If i choose to walk a certain path I crush hundreds of insects and possibly millions of micro organisms, which won't be able to pass on their genetic traits. Intelligent design denies free will in all forms. Either God forced all creatures and all people to do exactly what he wants at all times - in which case there can be no evil as everything is how it should be - or god is not responsible for evolution. (although he may still be responsible for teh creation of life itself - although to argue that you'll first have to prove that he/she/they exist)

 

[chaseter]

How can someone be so ingorant and have an inflated ego?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

how many people know moveifan? i get a feelling that he is making fun of all of us here.

A lot of folks on these forums know of me, but there's very few (if any) who actually know me. I don't strive to be cruel or vindictive; I simply present my points as best I can. I also recognize that I can't change someone else's perceptions. If I do my best to remain civil, kind, and clear, and folks still take my posts offensively, that's on them. I don't worry about it. I'm polite for the most part, but I don't "walk on eggshells" where important issues are concerned.

There is no way that someone would mix so much stuff up.

I don't know exactly which matters you're talking about, but I do know that very few around here actually understand what I've been trying to say. Many automatically ridicule or insult me because I'm a Christian, not even wanting to comprehend my posts. After a long time, I finally realized that some folks won't listen to anything, and it's often best to avoid those people. I answer questions to the best of my ability, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything...only God has that market cornered.

 

[chaseter]

^No one ridicules you for being a Christian...I am a Christian, Squeeks is a Christian, Pickles is a Christian..etc. You get criticized because you are a polarized bigot. That means you take your views to the absolute extremes so far that they blind you to breed intolerance and biased views of existance.

Just look at your posts. You come off snarky, pompous, and judgemental. It is very off-putting. You debate by refuting tested scientific data with your own set of beliefs from a book that is grounded in morals. Science and morals don't mix because not everybody has the exact same set of morals and there will always be that grey area. So for you not to expect to get a bit ridiculed for some of your posts is entirely bewildering to me.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

No one ridicules you for being a Christian...I am a Christian, Squeeks is a Christian, Pickles is a Christian..etc. You get criticized because you are a polarized bigot. That means you take your views to the absolute extremes so far that they blind you to breed intolerance and biased views of existance.

In my opinion, a Christian accepts the entire Bible as absolute truth, period. He or she doesn't have to understand or even like all of it (God knows I don't), but they do have to accept it as fact. The whole truth is that while the Scriptures were transcribed and organized by the early church, their content and message is entirely of God.

 

[dark_b]

In my opinion, a Christian accepts the entire Bible as absolute truth, period. He or she doesn't have to understand or even like all of it (God knows I don't), but they do have to accept it as fact. The whole truth is that while the Scriptures were transcribed and organized by the early church, their content and message is entirely of God.

i will never find the post but i am pretty sure that you said once that you dont have to belive in everything.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I will never find the post but I am pretty sure that you said once that you dont have to belive in everything.

I've previously mentioned that various traditions are man-made, rather than being found in Scripture. I've also noted the symbolism of certain verses (most of them in Daniel and Revelation). That being said, I stand by my conviction that although men transcribed it, the teachings and lessons of the Bible came directly from God...all of them. I don't pretend to know all the "hows" or "whys", but my failure to understand the whole thing doesn't automatically mean it's false. God promised to protect His Word, not mankind's collective opinions about it.

 

[Carcharodon]

I don't pretend to know all the "hows" or "whys", but my failure to understand evolution doesn't automatically mean it's false.

My, how well THIS works.

 

[Oddzball]

Many theories surround the appendix and its function. One suggests that it helps fight off infections, while another states it serves as a haven for bacteria needed to aid the digestive system. Some believe it was used in digesting flora at one point.

Spinal problems can arise from many causes: injury and stress among them. But the most general reason is likely that health problems are the result of sin. Adam & Eve are never described as being ill in the Garden, and various theories suggest they could've been there for over a century prior to the Fall.

It's an aid for supporting the body weight of an individual who's sitting down, among other uses.

Like others, the wisdom teeth have a primary purpose: chewing food. They're only removed surgically when their presence adversely affects other teeth, or when they've become damaged.

The problem with the spine, in context isn't that it can be injured. It's that it's clearly adapted from a walks on all fours spine. If it was designed for the task it does, the designer was incompetent.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

The problem with the spine, in context isn't that it can be injured. It's that it's clearly adapted from a walks on all fours spine. If it was designed for the task it does, the designer was incompetent.

Why? Various animals all have similar spinal structures as well. Could it possibly be that one reason for such similarities is to serve as evidence of a common Creator?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

My, how well THIS works.

Please don't misquote me. I was referring to the Scriptures in that post, not evolution...and you know it.