Do You Believe In Evolution?

[chaseter]

not really. aswell as there being many afterlifes with different requirements there could be after lifes you only get into not believing. so we've got as much chance as anyone else.

That would make atheism a religion. And when has anyone been taught that doing nothing will get you a positive reward? That goes against mathematics, physics, and biology. You must put work/energy/whatever into something to get a positive return.

 

[Danalys]

i don't see how. it's simple set theory. all you do is presume that if there were gods not all of them would reward people for believing and some would reward for not believing in them. the athiest doesn't expect an afterlife it just knows that the probability is the same whether you believe or not, whether there is a god or not.

there's a difference between entertaining possiblities (hypothetical thought) and believing in them.

 

[chaseter]

i don't see how. it's simple set theory. all you do is presume that if there were gods not all of them would reward people for believing and some would reward for not believing in them. the athiest doesn't expect an afterlife it just knows that the probability is the same whether you believe or not, whether there is a god or not.

there's a difference between entertaining possiblities (hypothetical thought) and believing in them.

What crazy God would reward someone for not believing? What would be the point of their existance then?

 

[Danalys]

maybe they want to reward the most rational reponse to the world they have created. there's all kinds of possibilities once you abandon the axiom that a god would want to be worshipped.

and they'd have all of the afterlife to be part of peoples lives.

 

[chaseter]

maybe they want to reward the most rational reponse to the world they have created. there's all kinds of possibilities once you abandon the axiom that a god would want to be worshipped.

and they'd have all of the afterlife to be part of peoples lives.

Entropy says otherwise I believe that everything in this Universe and I mean everthing subscribes to entropy.

 

[Danalys]

i don't see how the physical process of entropy would have anything to say about a metaphysical afterlife, or a dieties want to be worshipped, or what they would reward.

total non-sequitur

 

[chaseter]

i don't see how the physical process of entropy would have anything to say about a metaphysical afterlife, or a dieties want to be worshipped, or what they would reward.

total non-sequitur

I would say everything in the univese, metaphysical or physical, must abide by a set of laws. If not, the deities of this universe would intervene more. There will be a time when the universe stops expanding and begins to come in on itself and that is when everything will be reset and the universe will begin again because there is not enough energy to put into the system to keep it going...entropy That brings to light a ton of more questions like do the deities survive or are new deities formed after a new universe begins?

 

[Danalys]

then you aint quite getting what metaphysical is. by definition it doesn't have to adhere to physical laws.

 

[Bill]

But then there is the argument that if by the chance that there is an afterlife, a calculating atheist would be wise to just pick a religion in the probability that said religion could be right because you statistically have nothing to lose.

Pascal's Wager. There is no logic behind that path either. You would think that a god wishing to fill his abode with the truly righteous would choose those who decide to be righteous without the promise of everlasting life or a gold paved kingdom where everything is perfect. You would think.

And I would rather languish in hell forever than kneel before a god that sends people there on no other basis than whether or not they worship him. I don't think a god would even require worship since that requirement disqualifies him as being perfect or even worthy of being called a god. Humans have this annoying penchant to require their gods to be needful of worship and massive humility from their followers.

 

[chaseter]

then you aint quite getting what metaphysical is. by definition it doesn't have to adhere to physical laws.

Oh Then maybe metaphysical is a bad word to use....maybe supernatural then.

 

[chaseter]

Pascal's Wager. There is no logic behind that path either. You would think that a god wishing to fill his abode with the truly righteous would choose those who decide to be righteous without the promise of everlasting life or a gold paved kingdom where everything is perfect. You would think.

And I would rather languish in hell forever than kneel before a god that sends people there on no other basis than whether or not they worship him. I don't think a god would even require worship since that requirement disqualifies him as being perfect or even worthy of being called a god. Humans have this annoying penchant to require their gods to be needful of worship and massive humility from their followers.

If that were the case...there would be no point in Earth. We would just be born into the spiritual gold paved kingdom of perfectness if nothing was required to get there.

 

[Danalys]

supernatural is no good either i'm afraid. physics is a branch of the natural philosophy otherwise known as science. the supernatural is not part of the natural philosophy, so not physics and thus metaphysics.

 

[psychocheeseman]

What crazy God would reward someone for not believing? What would be the point of their existance then?

i think the basic "atheist diety" idea is that rational people can see no evidence for god - therefore if there was a god, who created us to be this way, he must have intended us to be atheist....

 

[Bill]

If that were the case...there would be no point in Earth. We would just be born into the spiritual gold paved kingdom of perfectness if nothing was required to get there.

I didn't say that nothing was required, but rather the truly righteous would be those who are righteous because they want to be not because they're going to get something for it.

 

[the_tortel]

I believe in Harvey Dent..

 

[Majic Walrus]

What crazy God would reward someone for not believing? What would be the point of their existance then?

What crazy God would create us for the sole purpose in believing and then hide?

 

[chaseter]

What crazy God would create us for the sole purpose in believing and then hide?

Christians would disagree with you on this. Now I have been relatively light in these threads about my centerist beliefs that incorporate many facets and for that I think I am a better person that the polar extremes on both sides. It is frivolous to think in any setting that you get something positive from nothing.

 

[Oddzball]

i don't see how. it's simple set theory. all you do is presume that if there were gods not all of them would reward people for believing and some would reward for not believing in them. the athiest doesn't expect an afterlife it just knows that the probability is the same whether you believe or not, whether there is a god or not.

there's a difference between entertaining possiblities (hypothetical thought) and believing in them.

Alternately, mortal religion is a test. Those who succumb to it fail. Those who see through it are deemed worthy.

 

[Bill]

Alternately, mortal religion is a test. Those who succumb to it fail. Those who see through it are deemed worthy.

I've often considered that. It'd be an interesting ploy by a supreme being to set up a series of religions that skewer the natural world, reason and logic to see if humans are gullible enough to fall for it.

I guess we know the answer to that.

 

[Danalys]

ah but would you be punished for believing that you shouldn't believe, based on a belief in a god that rewards not believing.

 

[Gilpesh]

If there was a god and it cared so much that we worship it and believe in it and that it created the entire universe and us... wouldn't babies be born with a bible (or the real word of god, not just some bull written by man) tied to their arm so they can learn all they need to know?

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Im currently reading a book called The Stairway to Heaven. Its interesting. I just went through Chapter 1: The Search for Paradise... meaning the search for the Fountain of Eternal Youth and in the book it mentions how the Fountain is actually within the Garden of Eden. Its part of a series. I read the 12th Planet, which is book 1 in the series.

Do you believe in such a Fountain?

 

[Danalys]

i read a book about adam and eve after eden called the white book which was well worth picking up for a quid.

edit: thought i'd add that it is buy Piero Scanziani and alot of it involves adam and eve being on trial for the sins of humanity.

 

[psychocheeseman]

In the interests of re igniting this thread - and getting it back onto topic:
It appears no one has come up with anything to dispute the theory of evolution yet!

Here's a question for religious people who believe fossil evidence etc was put there by God- why would god do that unless he either only wanted deliberately ignorant followers, or wanted us to live as atheists.

why would a god only want ignorant followers? Is he really that worried about intellectual competition? That would make sense in a way because from the old testament he really doesn't seem that bright himself...

 

[Bill]

ah but would you be punished for believing that you shouldn't believe, based on a belief in a god that rewards not believing.

No, you would be rewarded for not believing anything based on a god that rewards not believing anything.